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AP FACT CHECK: Trump taps false stereotypes about immigrants

It all garbage and propaganda aimed at demonizing immigrants and especially non-European ones. Just because you fall for the scam or are a supremacist yourself does not mean I will not point it out every time I see you try to use it. That white supremacist trash does not belong on this forum. It's not acceptable and no some of you are NOT good people either. Go back to wherever your family immigrated from. This countries values are not for you. I just have one question for you...If you think you are so superior why are you so afraid of brown people? Afraid you cannot compete and need the Govt. to give you an unfair advantage?

You can 'point out' all the real or imagined anti-immigrant devil worshippers you like, but do refrain from burning or hanging the apostate and blasphemous - it's no longer legal.

Better yet, you might set aside your witch hunting prejudices and allow yourself to think the heretical thought that reality exists outside of your quasi-religious PC zealotry, that screaming "scam" or "supremacist" for mentioning facts that threaten your cloistered worldview is not a moral offense; well, unless you are of the tolerance mindset of a Torquemada or Cotton Mather.

So what is "unacceptable" to you are facts that make you uncomfortable, so uncomfortable that it requires you to ascribe nefarious motives of ideology which are neither true nor relevant. What does not "belong on this forum" are those with bloviating hostilities unmoored to supporting evidence, and random denunciations based on unproven allegiances.

Before making another silly rant, I suggest your read Borjas book "We Wanted Workers". Borjas, labor economist and immigrant, explains how and why you (and your information) is wrong in cold analytical detail - after you finish, get back to us.

Till then, the only fear I have is not of "brown people", but of idiocies like yours being taken too seriously.
 
You can 'point out' all the real or imagined anti-immigrant devil worshippers you like, but do refrain from burning or hanging the apostate and blasphemous - it's no longer legal.

Better yet, you might set aside your witch hunting prejudices and allow yourself to think the heretical thought that reality exists outside of your quasi-religious PC zealotry, that screaming "scam" or "supremacist" for mentioning facts that threaten your cloistered worldview is not a moral offense; well, unless you are of the tolerance mindset of a Torquemada or Cotton Mather.

So what is "unacceptable" to you are facts that make you uncomfortable, so uncomfortable that it requires you to ascribe nefarious motives of ideology which are neither true nor relevant. What does not "belong on this forum" are those with bloviating hostilities unmoored to supporting evidence, and random denunciations based on unproven allegiances.

Before making another silly rant, I suggest your read Borjas book "We Wanted Workers". Borjas, labor economist and immigrant, explains how and why you (and your information) is wrong in cold analytical detail - after you finish, get back to us.

Till then, the only fear I have is not of "brown people", but of idiocies like yours being taken too seriously.

You are the silly one and that is being generous. You fail to inform yourselves of the real facts and instead believe and post misinformation provided by white supremacist sites that reinforce your slanted and bigoted views.
We are a nation of immigrants and you would likely not be here if generations before had let ignorance and prejudice rule as you now desire. Facts like undocumented Americans paid $23.6 Billion in income taxes in 2015 or that 3 million undocumented Americans live in homes they own make no sense in your narrowed mind so you deny them. I'm sorry for you because you have failed to understand the true meaning of America and probably will die never knowing. You won't even click on this link because of your fear....

#FactsMatter
 
You are the silly one and that is being generous. You fail to inform yourselves of the real facts and instead believe and post misinformation provided by white supremacist sites that reinforce your slanted and bigoted views.
We are a nation of immigrants and you would likely not be here if generations before had let ignorance and prejudice rule as you now desire. Facts like undocumented Americans paid $23.6 Billion in income taxes in 2015 or that 3 million undocumented Americans live in homes they own make no sense in your narrowed mind so you deny them. I'm sorry for you because you have failed to understand the true meaning of America and probably will die never knowing. You won't even click on this link because of your fear....

#FactsMatter

So this is where I have to ask the question. When is enough or change required? OR is CHANGE never required?

1) We are a nation of Immigrants, back before 1776 when the constitution was written and before immigration law was passed, Immigration was what made the country prosper. "Evolutions & Revolutions" occurred.
2) We as a nation are reaching points in which Vast amounts of immigration is not the highest priorities. Space and resources are becoming more and more limited.
3) As a nation we are failing to manage our OWN people American Citizens by ways of Health care, Physical violence and even basic needs. Years back as people (YOU) described. The issue was NOT Health care in the same way it is now. Same with basic needs. People that "migrated", migrated knowing they were starting from scratch.
4) Currently "evolution" has changed. Migration is NOT JUST for the American Dream like the days gone. Its for safety, security, freedom from oppression etc. YET. When does our generosity become too much of a burden and the BASIS of the nation becomes greatly affected?


I hear the We are nation of immigrants BUT how much is too much when or what is the number before either our infrastructures collapses or when our resources are depleted is it time to say its enough.

We have so many AMERICAN citizens, Elderly, Veterans, Homeless, food less, care less, YET.... We just want to keep importing and migrating more and more and more. And we CRY FOUL at the border when people that intentional make a harsh travel illegal are treated less then they (those complaining about a nation of immigrants), YET we treat a homeless guy at a 7/11 NO BETTER then an ILLEGAL entering our borders... Heck they get care, roof and food at those holding locations what about my local bum that has been scrounging the cigarette pit for left overs every day since I have worked at my current job.


We can have ALL the compassion in the world. But compassion does NOT pay bills nor does it make resources. What is the tipping scale when we have to "ADJUST" change, or revamp our systems to be equatable. Or there is none and we just let it be. let it runs its course?
 
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Some rightwingers have co-opted the label "liberal", claiming that they're "classical liberals" and that it's the leftwingers who have bastardized the term.

They are best described as 'Archaic liberals'.
 
So this is where I have to ask the question. When is enough or change required? OR is CHANGE never required?

1) We are a nation of Immigrants, back before 1776 when the constitution was written and before immigration law was passed, Immigration was what made the country prosper. "Evolutions & Revolutions" occurred.
2) We as a nation are reaching points in which Vast amounts of immigration is not the highest priorities. Space and resources are becoming more and more limited.
3) As a nation we are failing to manage our OWN people American Citizens by ways of Health care, Physical violence and even basic needs. Years back as people (YOU) described. The issue was NOT Health care in the same way it is now. Same with basic needs. People that "migrated", migrated knowing they were starting from scratch.
4) Currently "evolution" has changed. Migration is NOT JUST for the American Dream like the days gone. Its for safety, security, freedom from oppression etc. YET. When does our generosity become too much of a burden and the BASIS of the nation becomes greatly affected?


I hear the We are nation of immigrants BUT how much is too much when or what is the number before either our infrastructures collapses or when our resources are depleted is it time to say its enough.

We have so many AMERICAN citizens, Elderly, Veterans, Homeless, food less, care less, YET.... We just want to keep importing and migrating more and more and more. And we CRY FOUL at the border when people that intentional make a harsh travel illegal are treated less then they (those complaining about a nation of immigrants), YET we treat a homeless guy at a 7/11 NO BETTER then an ILLEGAL entering our borders... Heck they get care, roof and food at those holding locations what about my local bum that has been scrounging the cigarette pit for left overs every day since I have worked at my current job.


We can have ALL the compassion in the world. But compassion does NOT pay bills nor does it make resources. What is the tipping scale when we have to "ADJUST" change, or revamp our systems to be equatable. Or there is none and we just let it be. let it runs its course?

The United States need more young people. Immigration is the way to go.
 
The United States need more young people. Immigration is the way to go.

So what quantifies "Young People" and why do you say "we need" more young people"

What qualifies young people, what is there purpose and need to fulfill?

To just say the US needs young people is such a broad open ended statement?


With that, Old people are should be disqualified from immigrating? Please clarify.
 
Then those people are idiots plain and simple.

I know a Muslim refugees from Syria and Somalia, and with the anti Muslim and anti refugee sentiment in this country, they have been very concerned. All I have to do is read the posts of Trump supporters post here, and they don't feel America should provide such people with refuge.
 
I know a Muslim refugees from Syria and Somalia, and with the anti Muslim and anti refugee sentiment in this country, they have been very concerned. All I have to do is read the posts of Trump supporters post here, and they don't feel America should provide such people with refuge.

No one is forcing them to come here? There are MULTIPLE countries that offer refugee status and welcome immigrants...
 
No one is forcing them to come here? There are MULTIPLE countries that offer refugee status and welcome immigrants...

You're illustrating my point... Why are people like you against providing Muslims with refugee in America? Claiming you're only against illegal immigration is obviously false, a red herring, and a lie. You want to slow legal immigrant and refugee applications.
 
Trump and his supporters call people seeking asylum invaders. Trump has decreased the number of VISAS issued by more than half. It's obvious he wants to slow down immigration levels, especially ones from ****hole countries. Trump wants white Norwegian immigrants.

Trump wants responsible immigration and has said so repeatedly. As for asylum seekers only about 10% of those attempting to come into the country in this manner qualify but if they get into the country they tend not to show up for immigration hearings, and thus are here illegally until caught. At that point the left says they ought to get to stay anyway.
 
Trump wants responsible immigration and has said so repeatedly. As for asylum seekers only about 10% of those attempting to come into the country in this manner qualify but if they get into the country they tend not to show up for immigration hearings, and thus are here illegally until caught. At that point the left says they ought to get to stay anyway.

I have talked to more honest Trump supporters. They are afraid Muslim refugees will change the culture of America, and their culture will drag America down to a third world status. Some even say that Islam cannot be part of America. It's about protecting American culture.

Trump has been deporting refugees, including Iraqi Christians, and they helped him get elected in Michigan... so again, refugees and people here legally have a right to be concerned despite the other poster calling them idiots.

Michigan’s Iraqi Chaldean community is fighting to protect dozens of people from deportation.
 
I have talked to more honest Trump supporters. They are afraid Muslim refugees will change the culture of America, and their culture will drag America down to a third world status. Some even say that Islam cannot be part of America. It's about protecting American culture.

Trump has been deporting refugees, including Iraqi Christians, and they helped him get elected in Michigan... so again, refugees and people here legally have a right to be concerned despite the other poster calling them idiots.

Michigan’s Iraqi Chaldean community is fighting to protect dozens of people from deportation.

We are a bit off-topic on this thread. Hardly every happens, right?

Having said that, I think you are at the core of the immigration issue—people are fearful of the cultural changes going on in America. More people from different cultures (e.g. people of different races or Muslims, or more generally anyone not like them or with foreign values) threatens their image of America.

Here’s the problem I see—America has always been changing. It is the essence of the “American experiment”. And the experiment is on-going—ever changing and ever challenging our view of ourselves. This will not stop—if it does, then we no longer free, and in my view we will no longer be the America that our founders conceived. Liberals tend to embrace change from an egalitarian viewpoint, and conservatives tend to promote our traditional social institutions in the context of our existing culture (or go back to a past cultural context—a reactionary view). So, can we find common ground?

I posit the following for further discussion if anyone is willing, and I am open to realistic ideas:

1) We must continue to accept immigrants. If we do not, we will not sustain our economic expansion, which will have devastating consequences.

2) We must regulate immigration, and enforce those regulations. I hope no one disagrees with this.

3) There is a limit to how many refugees we can accept. There are about 7.5 billion people in the world. More than half of those people live a very meager existence. There is also plenty of oppression, violence, and horrible forms of government that lack the freedoms we have. Therefore, more people probably want to come here than we can accept. We need to review our policy regarding refugees—I don’t see how we can accept them all. Europe has been dealing with this problem as well.
 
You are the silly one and that is being generous. You fail to inform yourselves of the real facts and instead believe and post misinformation provided by white supremacist sites that reinforce your slanted and bigoted views.
We are a nation of immigrants and you would likely not be here if generations before had let ignorance and prejudice rule as you now desire. d
#FactsMatter

If "facts matter", its not been apparent in any of your posts. As previously noted, your only priority has been to brand any think tank researchers or labor economists who tell you unwelcome facts as "bigots" and "white supremacists". As I also noted its easier to dismiss sources because you don't want to hear disturbing facts, rather than dismissing them because they are actually wrong. (In the McCarthy era it was known as "guilt determined by association", by the way).

As far as my views are concerned, like almost all white people I am not a white supremacist. I believe every culture, race, and region has good and bad, and that in the final analysis it is the content of a person's character that I find most commendable, not his "identity group" or even intelligence. On the other hand, I am motivated by rational self-interest and race/culture realism and don't find that immigration in general over the last 50 plus years has been a net benefit to myself and many others like me. I was perfectly happy with the racial and cultural makeup of the nation in 1970, and would have been very happy to see the immigration rules and quotas prior to 1965 to have continued - the social and cultural continuity, lower US population, and the more trusting society would have made the pre-existing population and their children much better off.

Yes we are all decedents of immigrants, slaves, or American Indians (themselves ancient migrants). And yes "we" would not be here or anywhere else except for all twists and turns of the human races diaspora from Africa and the thousands of generations of serendipitous mate selection, but so what? After all, I would not be here if a freighter deckhand had not unloaded cargo in 1925 Vancouver so as to have an affair with a Canadian Scots-English married woman either, but that does not mean I am obligated to support adultery or union labor, does it?

My point is simple: we are Americans, born into a social compact with our national purpose - to preserve the blessings of liberty for "us" not "them". If they improve our well being, I welcome them. If they don't, at least in principle I don't.
 
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I know a Muslim refugees from Syria and Somalia, and with the anti Muslim and anti refugee sentiment in this country, they have been very concerned. All I have to do is read the posts of Trump supporters post here, and they don't feel America should provide such people with refuge.

Anecdotal at best, because I can probably think of three dozen other individuals who've come from some of the hardest hit places in the world and made a very good life for themselves here.

Aside from coming into the country illegally, or coming in with hateful intent. This person you've mention should have no conflicting thoughts about coming to the US, because the US and to that extent, pro-legal immigration supporters on this site have been staunch about letting in the good. While doing what they must to protect their country from the bad.

Like I said before. Those people who are afraid, are fools and are choosing to be fooled if they believe what some fringe detractors want to spew on an internet message board.
 
If "facts matter", its not been apparent in any of your posts. As previously noted, your only priority has been to brand any think tank researchers or labor economists who tell you unwelcome facts as "bigots" and "white supremacists". As I also noted its easier to dismiss sources because you don't want to hear disturbing facts, rather than dismissing them because they are actually wrong. (In the McCarthy era it was known as "guilt determined by association", by the way).

As far as my views are concerned, like almost all white people I am not a white supremacist. I believe every culture, race, and region has good and bad, and that in the final analysis it is the content of a person's character that I find most commendable, not his "identity group" or even intelligence. On the other hand, I am motivated by rational self-interest and race/culture realism and don't find that immigration in general over the last 50 plus years has been a net benefit to myself and many others like me. I was perfectly happy with the racial and cultural makeup of the nation in 1970, and would have been very happy to see the immigration rules and quotas prior to 1965 to have continued - the social and cultural continuity, lower US population, and the more trusting society would have made the pre-existing population and their children much better off.

Yes we are all decedents of immigrants, slaves, or American Indians (themselves ancient migrants). And yes "we" would not be here or anywhere else except for all twists and turns of the human races diaspora from Africa and the thousands of generations of serendipitous mate selection, but so what? After all, I would not be here if a freighter deckhand had not unloaded cargo in 1925 Vancouver so as to have an affair with a Canadian Scots-English married woman either, but that does not mean I am obligated to support adultery or union labor, does it?

My point is simple: we are Americans, born into a social compact with our national purpose - to preserve the blessings of liberty for "us" not "them". If they improve our well being, I welcome them. If they don't, at least in principle I don't.

Thank you, Maxparrish. I understand your point of view with greater clarity. It is very helpful to understand a person’s views at a greater depth. Good post. Thanks.
 
Anecdotal at best, because I can probably think of three dozen other individuals who've come from some of the hardest hit places in the world and made a very good life for themselves here.

Aside from coming into the country illegally, or coming in with hateful intent. This person you've mention should have no conflicting thoughts about coming to the US, because the US and to that extent, pro-legal immigration supporters on this site have been staunch about letting in the good. While doing what they must to protect their country from the bad.

Like I said before. Those people who are afraid, are fools and are choosing to be fooled if they believe what some fringe detractors want to spew on an internet message board.

There is credible evidence of Islamophobia in the US. Here is an example study:

Islamophobia: Understanding Anti-Muslim Sentiment in the West

American history has many examples of prejudice against immigrants. Irish, Italian, Chinese come immediately to mind. But, basically it is every new group of people who are foreign to the existing culture. I surmise Syrians and Somalians will absorb into America’s melting pot like all others before them—shedding their cultural influence on the whole as they are absorbed.
 
There is credible evidence of Islamophobia in the US. Here is an example study:

Islamophobia: Understanding Anti-Muslim Sentiment in the West

American history has many examples of prejudice against immigrants. Irish, Italian, Chinese come immediately to mind. But, basically it is every new group of people who are foreign to the existing culture. I surmise Syrians and Somalians will absorb into America’s melting pot like all others before them—shedding their cultural influence on the whole as they are absorbed.

Islamaphobia in the west however, is not an exaggeration.

We've had attacks, threats and far more cause for most others to fear, more than just a few elements of the Islamic world.

Though thinking of the history of prejudice in this country. That's just it, a history and is not really indicative of what it is now.
 
Because Trump tells them what they want to hear, that they are victims and not responsible for their failures.

That it is OK to be greedy. That it is OK to be racist.

Trump offers the unwashed the absolution that they crave.

Yeah, going to need a citation on these.
 
Islamaphobia in the west however, is not an exaggeration.

We've had attacks, threats and far more cause for most others to fear, more than just a few elements of the Islamic world.

Though thinking of the history of prejudice in this country. That's just it, a history and is not really indicative of what it is now.

Fair enough. That is true.
 
Fair enough. That is true.

I do know and understand what you were getting to however.

It is understandable that some people who see the US from the outside could easily have such beliefs. Though I would have to say that just as much fault is on the media for how much they like to hammer onto some topics and completely omit other assets of the narrative.
 
We are a bit off-topic on this thread. Hardly every happens, right?

Having said that, I think you are at the core of the immigration issue—people are fearful of the cultural changes going on in America. More people from different cultures (e.g. people of different races or Muslims, or more generally anyone not like them or with foreign values) threatens their image of America.

Here’s the problem I see—America has always been changing. It is the essence of the “American experiment”. And the experiment is on-going—ever changing and ever challenging our view of ourselves. This will not stop—if it does, then we no longer free, and in my view we will no longer be the America that our founders conceived. Liberals tend to embrace change from an egalitarian viewpoint, and conservatives tend to promote our traditional social institutions in the context of our existing culture (or go back to a past cultural context—a reactionary view). So, can we find common ground?

Actually the problem is your lingering affection for a soothing, but now increasingly outdated, narrative taught to us as school children. Granted its important for children to "enculturate", to be a part of something greater than themselves, to be a part a nation of historical meaning, but such sentimentalities have become tattered nostalgics. The "American Experiment" has run its course, and no longer has relevant continuity with its own past; "America" exceptionalism and self-belief in a providential mission is now a shuttered religion in the land of cynical agnostics.

In a nutshell: the American "experiment" was always rooted in a contiguous American experience - one fueled by ideology (liberty), markets, the westward expansion, and a combination of American identities created "de novo" from that experience: the populist "cross of gold" farmers, the middle-class Babbitt's, the New England bucolic towns, the Appalachian settlement by backwoodsmen, the mountain men, Evangelicals, the feudal south, and the ranchers and cowboys of the far west. To understand WJ Bryan, the cross of gold, and populism you had to understand agrarianism, the grange, and the settlement of the great farming states. To see the civil war, you had to know the institution of slavery and the feudal economic dependency it imposed by the South. To understand isolationism, you could look to the entire history of American views of Europe and the Monroe Doctrine. To appreciate the populating of the West, you had to look to economic opportunity, internal migration, and a vast ranching and farming hopes.

To understand today, however, the American past is increasingly irrelevant. Of what use is it to understand the divisions of the past, which were (with the exception of slavery) almost entirely based on class and regional economic dependencies and today - entirely dependent on immutable racial and ethnic (often imported) and gender animosity?

The commonality found in the American experiment stories and images were rooted not in common experiences - not our differences. Even those who were not WASP saw the "Americanness" and universality in writers and image makers like Norman Rockwell, Mark Twain, O. Henry, Faulkner, T. Williams, E. O'Neill, Willa Cather, Frank Capra, etc. - our painful and unshared experience reserved for the one significant racial minority, blacks.

So what then is left of this experiment? From what historic events is today rooted? All we are, and seemingly will be, are an reinvented alienizing nation with little to share historically (except blacks); 90 million Americans (and growing) mostly of Latin America, India, Asia, and fewer of Islamic origin. All being told that full assimilation is to be rejected, that people of their genetics and coloration are barely a part of the nations experience (or experiment) and that all their grievances are freshly minted and all of one or two generations old.

When a third or half a nation has no historical connection to America, who have no roots as an American invented regional or economic culture - well, what American "experiment" might you be thinking of?

None that I can see.
 
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