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Thread: Rep. Ilhan Omar proposes taxing wealthiest Americans up to 90%

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    Re: Rep. Ilhan Omar proposes taxing wealthiest Americans up to 90%

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    "There should be fairly generous, yet truly standard, deduction (say $40K) and then a flat tax rate (say 25%) applied to any and all income over that amount. "

    Perhaps I misunderstood. Are you saying this would be on top of the existing payroll tax?
    Yes, the federal income tax is completely separate from the (FICA) payroll taxes used (exclusively) to fund Social Security and Medicare programs.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Rep. Ilhan Omar proposes taxing wealthiest Americans up to 90%

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    LOL Since when are billionaires "the foundation of American freedoms and prosperity"?
    Individual wealth creation seems to be a foreign concept to you. I was taught to celebrate success and not be jealous of it. Apparently you were taught an entitlement mentality and to be jealous of others.

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    Re: Rep. Ilhan Omar proposes taxing wealthiest Americans up to 90%

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yes, the federal income tax is completely separate from the (FICA) payroll taxes used (exclusively) to fund Social Security and Medicare programs.
    Fine, I thought your were saying to reduce everything to one flat tax. In any case, your suggestion is still unfair. Payroll tax doesnt pay for all the social services, so everyone who makes more than 40k would be funding most everything.

    A simple flat tax to rule them all is better. Exemption for the truly poor, and then everyone pays x% of every dollar above that (ideally with a cap, but we can work on that), and a balanced budget amendment which requires the X to be set at whatever level is required to balance. Adjust it every few years.

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    Re: Rep. Ilhan Omar proposes taxing wealthiest Americans up to 90%

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Fine, I thought your were saying to reduce everything to one flat tax. In any case, your suggestion is still unfair. Payroll tax doesnt pay for all the social services, so everyone who makes more than 40k would be funding most everything.

    A simple flat tax to rule them all is better. Exemption for the truly poor, and then everyone pays x% of every dollar above that (ideally with a cap, but we can work on that), and a balanced budget amendment which requires the X to be set at whatever level is required to balance. Adjust it every few years.
    We are not that far apart in our thinking on this matter. Where we differ seems to be in how "truly poor" we wish to make/keep folks. My purpose for having a more generous, yet truly standard, deduction is to allow folks to have (keep?) enough of their own income to cover basic living expenses with a bit left over for some discretionary spending before they must start sharing their (excess?) income with the rest of society.

    My example suggested a fixed amount (of $40K) but that was simply a nice round number which allows for doing quick math in one's head. In any actual legislation, it would make more sense to express that amount as some percentage (138%?) of the current federal poverty level for a (typical?) 4 person household. In 2014 that actual amount would have been $32,913, in 2017 $33,948 and in 2019 $34,638 as that amount is adjusted (annually) so as not to lose ground due to general inflation or to require re-writing the tax code every year.

    What we do now is tinker with the tax code adding in personal exemptions of some fixed amount ($2,300?) for each minor dependent but I want to get away from basing the federal income tax on how, or upon who, that income was later spent. It makes no sense to me that two workers should have to pay a different amount of federal income tax on identical incomes.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 02-01-19 at 10:23 AM.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Rep. Ilhan Omar proposes taxing wealthiest Americans up to 90%

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    We are not that far apart in our thinking on this matter. Where we differ seems to be in how "truly poor" we wish to make/keep folks. My purpose for having a more generous, yet truly standard, deduction is to allow folks to have (keep?) enough of their own income to cover basic living expenses with a bit left over for some discretionary spending before they must start sharing their (excess?) income with the rest of society.

    My example suggested a fixed amount (of $40K) but that was simply a nice round number which allows for doing quick math in one's head. In any actual legislation, it would make more sense to express that amount as some percentage (138%?) of the current federal poverty level for a (typical?) 4 person household. In 2014 that actual amount would have been $32,913, in 2017 $33,948 and in 2019 $34,638 as that amount is adjusted (annually) so as not to lose ground due to general inflation or to require re-writing the tax code every year.

    What we do now is tinker with the tax code adding in personal exemptions of some fixed amount ($2,300?) for each minor dependent but I want to get away from basing the federal income tax on how, or upon who, that income was later spent. It makes no sense to me that two workers should have to pay a different amount of federal income tax on identical incomes.
    But see now youre adding complexity back in by having to adjust the exemption. Why should someone who has kids pay LESS taxes? If anything they should be paying more.

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    Re: Rep. Ilhan Omar proposes taxing wealthiest Americans up to 90%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Individual wealth creation seems to be a foreign concept to you. I was taught to celebrate success and not be jealous of it. Apparently you were taught an entitlement mentality and to be jealous of others.
    The "foreign concept" is the aristocracy of the wealthy which our founders rebelled against.

    The meritocratic class has mastered the old trick of consolidating wealth and passing privilege along at the expense of other people’s children. We are not innocent bystanders to the growing concentration of wealth in our time. We are the principal accomplices in a process that is slowly strangling the economy, destabilizing American politics, and eroding democracy. Our delusions of merit now prevent us from recognizing the nature of the problem that our emergence as a class represents. We tend to think that the victims of our success are just the people excluded from the club. But history shows quite clearly that, in the kind of game we’re playing, everybody loses badly in the end.


    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ocracy/559130/
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    Re: Rep. Ilhan Omar proposes taxing wealthiest Americans up to 90%

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The "foreign concept" is the aristocracy of the wealthy which our founders rebelled against.





    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ocracy/559130/
    Wondered when you are going to show up and embarrass yourself again. Our Founders created a small central govt. and part time legislature contrary to what you are supporting here. Individual wealth creation is a foreign concept to you and because you cannot compete you want to destroy the economy for others. We have a growing pie that people not you have a chance to get a part of but your attitude and lack of initiative prevents you from participating

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    Re: Rep. Ilhan Omar proposes taxing wealthiest Americans up to 90%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Wondered when you are going to show up and embarrass yourself again. Our Founders created a small central govt. and part time legislature contrary to what you are supporting here. Individual wealth creation is a foreign concept to you and because you cannot compete you want to destroy the economy for others. We have a growing pie that people not you have a chance to get a part of but your attitude and lack of initiative prevents you from participating
    The graph I posted belies everything you claim. Your meritocracy has killed the American dream and American citizens have nearly the worst chance of having a better future than their parents of any country in the world. It is unsustainable and will end in ruin for all. You also have a twisted view of our founders.

    Jefferson might not have wanted a lot of government, but he wanted enough government to assert the sovereignty of citizens over corporations. To his view, nothing was more important to the health of the republic.

    In the early years of the 19th century, as banks and corporations began to flex their political muscles, he announced that: “I hope we shall crush… in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”

    There are those who would have us believe that the founders intended for corporations to control our elections – and, tragically, five of these Tories sit on the U.S. Supreme Court, where they recently ruled that the nation’s biggest businesses may spend whatever they like to buy the results that best serve their bottom lines.
    https://www.thenation.com/article/th...-corporations/
    Last edited by iguanaman; 02-01-19 at 04:36 PM.
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    Re: Rep. Ilhan Omar proposes taxing wealthiest Americans up to 90%

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The graph I posted belies everything you claim. Your meritocracy has killed the American dream and American citizens have nearly the worst chance of having a better future than their parents of any country in the world. It is unsustainable and will end in ruin for all. You also have a twisted view of our founders.



    https://www.thenation.com/article/th...-corporations/
    I am so sorry that you are so miserable and the American dream has passed you buy, guess you didn't have any responsibility for your own failures

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    Re: Rep. Ilhan Omar proposes taxing wealthiest Americans up to 90%

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The Beatles managed to get rich on 95% tax. See "Taxman"
    In the US, in many states, a 90% federal tax would translate to a tax rate of more than 100% at the state level.

    For example, someone with $8M wages and $4M investment income would have roughly $2M taxed at the 90% rate for federal taxes. That means that the last $2M of income cost $1.8M in federal income tax alone. However, on top of that they would also be assessed roughly $95k in additional Medicare tax and Net Investment Income Tax. Then they have to factor in state income tax so, in a state such as California, that last $2M would cost $260k PLUS a Mental Health Services Tax of another $110k. Bottom line is that that last $2M of income would cost $2.2M+ in tax....and somehow or other that's supposed to be "their fair share".

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