• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

In apparent shot at Trump, Pope says 'builders of walls' sow fear and divide

Huh. Spreading the message of Christ is 'divisive politics' to you?

I can see why you left the RCC.

You mean, he's been adding to the Scriptures.
What message of Christ was he exactly spreading by invoking the wall?
Where does it ever say in the bible that you cannot build a wall?

If we go by what Christ had taught - Trump is right to stop Muslims from pouring into the nation!
Christians shouldn't be yoked with non-believers!

And, if we go by the Bible - it is the Pope that's not following what's written in it!
He's meddling in other nations' affairs (when he's got his own big problem right in his own church).

He's putting forth what seems to be his own agenda before the Word of God!
AT THE EXPENSE OF THE SCRIPTURES!
When you take the Scriptures out of context - you corrupt the Scriptures!



If he feels so strongly about the wall, and about the refugees that are being rejected - he should walk the talk!

OPEN THE VATICAN TO ALL REJECTED ASYLUM SEEKERS!

The Vatican has all the financial resources to help so many - didn't the apostles spend their money on the poor?

He should set the example! He should do the same!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
Interesting analysis.

I looked up "pederasty" in "The Bible" and found exactly ZERO uses of the word. That would mean, if I were to follow your logic, that since there is nothing in "The Bible" condemning "pederasty" then it is something that no religion (based on "The Bible") should have any opinion on.

No. Logic dictates you should know the meaning of the term. What's the definition of pederasty?


Pederasty or paederasty (US: /ˈpɛdəræsti/ or UK: /ˈpiːdəræsti/) is a (usually erotic) homosexual relationship between an adult male and a pubescent or adolescent male.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty
 
None of those verses even come close to expressing his idea concerning a wall or walls. The Revelation Wall is the most interesting wall mentioned.

Roseann:)


And, yes. The wall is a symbol of exclusion!



What will be the purpose of the walls around the New Jerusalem?

Beginning with Revelation 21:9, John records his final vision picturing the city of God, the New Jerusalem where believers in Christ will spend their eternal lives. The New Jerusalem is the ultimate fulfillment of all of God’s promises. It exemplifies the total goodness of God, its infinite brilliance “like that of a very precious jewel, like as jasper, clear as crystal” (Revelation 21:11).

Then in verse 12, John moves from describing its general appearance to its exterior design beginning with the walls.

The walls of the city, described as “great and high,” are an obvious symbol of exclusion of all that are unworthy to enter the city. Though innumerable believers will enjoy its glory, there is the chilling reminder that only the redeemed may enter.

But a final question remains: if those within the walls of the New Jerusalem are the saved, who then are those outside its walls? The last three verses of chapter 21 gives us the answer: “On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life” (Revelation 21:25-27).
The city’s gates in the wall will never be shut. It is not that outside of the New Jerusalem, unsaved people are still roaming around, but this pictures a city with open gates on a new earth where believers will dwell throughout eternity. Ancient cities shut their gates at night for security purposes. However, since there will be no night there, and since all evil will have been eradicated, these gates will stay open constantly. Revelation seems to picture a great amount of activity coming and going from the city, but all who go in and out are those redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

Jesus Himself, as well as John, specifies the “impure” as those who will not enter the city: “Outside are the dogs who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood” as well as the “cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, and all liars” (Revelation 22:15).
https://www.gotquestions.org/new-jerusalem-walls.html
 
Very good point! This Pope isn't playing Politics. This Pope is representing the true Christian perspective.

What is that so-called "true Christian" perspective? Can you elaborate on that?
 
You mean, he's been adding to the Scriptures.
What message of Christ was he exactly spreading by invoking the wall?
Where does it ever say in the bible that you cannot build a wall?

If we go by what Christ had taught - Trump is right to stop Muslims from pouring into the nation!
Christians shouldn't be yoked with non-believers!

And, if we go by the Bible - it is the Pope that's not following what's written in it!
He's meddling in other nations' affairs (when he's got his own big problem right in his own church).

He's putting forth what seems to be his own agenda before the Word of God!
AT THE EXPENSE OF THE SCRIPTURES!
When you take the Scriptures out of context - you corrupt the Scriptures!



If he feels so strongly about the wall, and about the refugees that are being rejected - he should walk the talk!

OPEN THE VATICAN TO ALL REJECTED ASYLUM SEEKERS!

The Vatican has all the financial resources to help so many - didn't the apostles spend their money on the poor?

He should set the example! He should do the same!

He hasn't added to the scriptures whatsoever, nor can you show that he has. To claim that he has is to lie.

Tell me, what does the bible say about lies?
 
What is that so-called "true Christian" perspective? Can you elaborate on that?

The sermon on the mount is a good place to start.
 
Very good point! This Pope isn't playing Politics. This Pope is representing the true Christian perspective.

https://www.gotquestions.org/vicar-of-Christ.html

Question: "Is the pope the Vicar of Christ?"

Answer: The term "vicar" comes from the Latin word vicarius, which means "instead of." In the Catholic Church, the vicar is the representative of a higher-ranking official, with all of the same authority and power that that official has. Calling the pope the "Vicar of Christ" implies that he has the same power and authority that Christ had over the church. snipped

For a better understanding of whether or not it is biblical to consider that a mere man is the representative of Christ, we turn to the pages of Scripture to find out what it says about Jesus' role in our lives, when He walked the earth and what He continues to do right now. The letter to the Hebrews draws the comparison between Jesus and the high priest Melchizedek (Genesis chapter 14) and contrasts this with the old Levitical priesthood. The question posed is, if perfection could be obtained by following the law, why was another priest to come (Hebrews 7:11)?

The writer says, “For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of power of an indestructible life. For it is declared ‘You are a high priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.’ The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God” (Hebrews 7:14-19).

This makes Jesus superior to the priests, and more importantly, the high priests. This is the key text: “Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore, He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them” (Hebrews 7:23-25).

This means that Jesus is our high priest forever. Since He is "holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, [and] exalted above the heavens" (Hebrews 7:26), He is unlike other priests in that He "does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for His own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once and for all when He offered Himself" (Hebrews 7:27). Men are appointed by the Law, and men are weak. But the Son was appointed by the New Covenant, and He has been made perfect forever (Hebrews 7:28). The ministry of Jesus is superior to the old, and it is founded on better promises (Hebrews 8:6).

The Bible says of Jesus that there is no other name by which men can be saved (Acts 4:12). There is only one mediator between God and men, and that is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5). We can now see that there is no biblical foundation for claiming to be a representative of Christ on earth. No man could do what Christ has done, or what Christ is now doing on behalf of humankind. But the title of vicar also carries with it another implication: the bearer has the same jurisdictional power of the official he represents. In Matthew 16:18, Jesus Christ is the one who says He will build His church; He never delegates this power. By claiming the title of Vicar of Christ, the reigning pope is, in fact, promising to do what Christ promised.

Jesus does indeed predict a “vicar” in the sense of a “replacement” for His physical presence here on earth. However, this “vicar of Christ” is not a priest, high priest, bishop, or pope. The only biblical “Vicar of Christ” is the Holy Spirit. John 14:26 declares, “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” John 14:16-18 proclaims, “And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever — the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.” The Holy Spirit is Christ’s “replacement” on the earth. The Holy Spirit is our Counselor, Teacher (John 14:26), and guide into all truth (John 16:13).

In claiming that the pope is the “Vicar of Christ,” the Catholic Church rejects the sufficiency and supremacy of Christ’s priesthood, and grants to the pope roles that Christ Himself declared would belong to the Holy Spirit. It is therefore blasphemy to ascribe to the pope the title of “Vicar of Christ.”
 
If Pope Francine wants to comment on an American political subject, he should choose Gov. Cuomo's "Kill Babies, No Consequences" abortion bill.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/25/americas/pope-walls-panama/index.html

"In apparent shot at Trump, Pope says 'builders of walls' sow fear and divide"

Pope Francis has taken another shot at wall-building politicians, telling thousands of Catholics in Panama gathered for World Youth Day that "builders of walls sow fear" and "divide people."

"We know that the father of lies, the devil, prefers a community divided and bickering," Francis told a crowd of tens of thousands of youth Thursday night at a seaside park in Panama City.

I am a former practicing RC who left the church because this pope can't seem to keep his divisive politics to himself.
How dare this pope talk about the father of lies, the devil, who the church has protected for decades by turning the blind eye to child molestation and pedophilia.
So you stayed with the church while it inserted itself into discussions about abortion, treatment of homosexuals, child molestation, transgender folk, but your last straw was a left wing pope who badmouths walls?

Your morality is cray cray.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 
You mean, he's been adding to the Scriptures.
What message of Christ was he exactly spreading by invoking the wall?
Where does it ever say in the bible that you cannot build a wall?

If we go by what Christ had taught - Trump is right to stop Muslims from pouring into the nation!
Christians shouldn't be yoked with non-believers!

And, if we go by the Bible - it is the Pope that's not following what's written in it!
He's meddling in other nations' affairs (when he's got his own big problem right in his own church).

He's putting forth what seems to be his own agenda before the Word of God!
AT THE EXPENSE OF THE SCRIPTURES!
When you take the Scriptures out of context - you corrupt the Scriptures!



If he feels so strongly about the wall, and about the refugees that are being rejected - he should walk the talk!

OPEN THE VATICAN TO ALL REJECTED ASYLUM SEEKERS!

The Vatican has all the financial resources to help so many - didn't the apostles spend their money on the poor?

He should set the example! He should do the same!

Since you asked.... the Bible has much to say about foreigners.... pretty much all of it inconsistent with Trump's policies.

https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2018/06/what-does-the-bible-say-about-refugees-and-foreigners/
 
In claiming that the pope is the “Vicar of Christ,” the Catholic Church rejects the sufficiency and supremacy of Christ’s priesthood, and grants to the pope roles that Christ Himself declared would belong to the Holy Spirit. It is therefore blasphemy to ascribe to the pope the title of “Vicar of Christ.”

Well, since it is obvious that you believe that blasphemy has no place in the United States of America, can you tell me how your campaign to get a constitutional amendment outlawing the Roman Catholic Church/Religion banned in the US is coming?
 
If Pope Francine wants to comment on an American political subject, he should choose Gov. Cuomo's "Kill Babies, No Consequences" abortion bill.

As I understand it, the position of the RCC with respect to abortion is well established - it's against it under all circumstances (with a tiny bit of wiggle room if it can be established that there is a 100% chance that the mother will die BEFORE delivery and that that death is SOLELY due to the pregnancy).
 
This last comment from Pope Francis isn't his first comment on the wall. Back in February, 2018 he said; ‘A person who only thinks of building walls, and not building bridges, is not Christian.’
 
Just as it is NOT "illegal" to step over the line painted on the pavement and "enter" Vatican City, it is NOT "illegal" to step over the imaginary line that delineates the border between Mexico and the United States of America.

As you noted with reference to Vatican City, the "illegality" arises from what you do AFTER you have "entered".

Well, that's a nonsense position you have picked. Is IS illegal to "step over the border" if you don't have authority to do so.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/25/americas/pope-walls-panama/index.html

"In apparent shot at Trump, Pope says 'builders of walls' sow fear and divide"

Pope Francis has taken another shot at wall-building politicians, telling thousands of Catholics in Panama gathered for World Youth Day that "builders of walls sow fear" and "divide people."

"We know that the father of lies, the devil, prefers a community divided and bickering," Francis told a crowd of tens of thousands of youth Thursday night at a seaside park in Panama City.

I am a former practicing RC who left the church because this pope can't seem to keep his divisive politics to himself.
How dare this pope talk about the father of lies, the devil, who the church has protected for decades by turning the blind eye to child molestation and pedophilia.

Yeah, at least when Trump molests people he doesn't do it for Jesus.

You quit the Catholic church because the Pope got political? That's actually what Jesus did, in advocating for the poor, so I don't understand your point. Why wouldn't the child molestations be enough? If the Catholics are right, they're right no matter what their priests do to children, I guess, but how dare they dis Trump.

The message is, you can **** our children but don't criticize our wall lust and the wispy-haired fascist who gave it to us. Clearly, there's a limit to what you'll endure as a Republican. LOL.
 
Since when have Mr. Trump's American Christian supporters been overly upset about any of his actions which do not conform to the basic teachings of Christianity?

You are correct, but can't miss the opportunity to point out how too many evangelicals are more than willing to make a deal with Satan for SCOTUS judges that do rather un-Christian things themselves. Just as the Catholic church sold itself out for perceived power in the middle ages, the evangelical movement does so today.

Men will be men and continue to fall far short of the glory of God.
 
If Pope Francine wants to comment on an American political subject, he should choose Gov. Cuomo's "Kill Babies, No Consequences" abortion bill.

You do realize the Roman Catholic church is pretty much on the vanguard of Pro-Life issues? In fact, they are so Pro-Life, they so see the divine nature of procreation, they have a problem with birth control. In essence, believing that killing sperm is akin to killing babies. I bet they are to the "right of you" on this issue.
 
Last edited:
Well, since it is obvious that you believe that blasphemy has no place in the United States of America, can you tell me how your campaign to get a constitutional amendment outlawing the Roman Catholic Church/Religion banned in the US is coming?

I have no desire to ban the Catholic Church. Just providing information. It is up to the reader to make their own determination concerning that information.

I disagree with that particular doctrine of the Catholic Church. The leaders of the various churches are responsible for the doctrine they teach.

That disagreement has nothing to do with the Catholic parishioners.

Their salvation is not based on what church they attend.

Their salvation is based on their Lord and Savior Jesus.

Just like every other Christian in the world at large.

Christian AKA Follower of Christ.

Salvation is not based on what church is attended or even those who do not attend a church.

Jesus knows who puts all their faith and trust in him with all their heart and soul for their salvation.

Roseann:)
 
Well, that's a nonsense position you have picked. Is IS illegal to "step over the border" if you don't have authority to do so.

Actually it isn't. In fact, you have to (in the vast majority of cases) "step over the border" in order to get permission to be in the United States of America.

Why not try the experiment for yourself.

  1. Leave the US.
  2. Return to the US border.
  3. Try and get permission to be in the US without "stepping over the border".
  4. Keep trying until the Mexican or Canadian authorities cart you off and have your mental stability assessed (or your aircraft/ship runs out of fuel).

The offence (slightly paraphrased so that it's more clear) is "BEING IN the United States of America without lawful authority". The offence is NOT (unless a previous order prohibiting entry has been made) "ENTERING the United States of America without lawful authority".
 
You are correct, but can't miss the opportunity to point out how too many evangelicals are more than willing to make a deal with Satan for SCOTUS judges that do rather un-Christian things themselves. Just as the Catholic church sold itself out for perceived power in the middle ages, the evangelical movement does so today.

Men will be men and continue to fall far short of the glory of God.

I'll settle for being able to get through the eye of the needle ʾIn shāʾa llāh.
 
I have no desire to ban the Catholic Church. Just providing information. It is up to the reader to make their own determination concerning that information.

I disagree with that particular doctrine of the Catholic Church. The leaders of the various churches are responsible for the doctrine they teach.

That disagreement has nothing to do with the Catholic parishioners.

Their salvation is not based on what church they attend.

Their salvation is based on their Lord and Savior Jesus.

Just like every other Christian in the world at large.

Christian AKA Follower of Christ.

Salvation is not based on what church is attended or even those who do not attend a church.

Jesus knows who puts all their faith and trust in him with all their heart and soul for their salvation.

Roseann:)

I'm sure that the 69+% of the people in the world today who are **D*O*O*M*E*D** will take a great deal of comfort from that fact. And, I'm equally sure that they take great comfort in knowing that everyone who died before Jesus sent out his message is equally **D*O*O*M*E*D**.

Since only about 7% of the number of people who have ever been born are alive today, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that only about 25% of the people who have ever been born were born after Jesus sent out his message and that would mean that only about a MAXIMUM of 25% could possibly have received that message (which would increase the number of people who are **D*O*O*M*E*D** to around 92.25% of all the people who had ever been born).

However that maximum number implies that Jesus' message actually got out all over the world instantaneously and that simply didn't happen so a more realistic assessment of the number of people who are **D*O*O*M*E*D** would be 96.125% of all of the people who had ever been born.

Batting .003865 sounds like a pretty poor record to me and I sincerely doubt that a "wise and compassionate God" would create anything that sloppy (even if She WAS rushed trying to get everything finished in time to go to church on Sunday so that people could worship Her.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/25/americas/pope-walls-panama/index.html

"In apparent shot at Trump, Pope says 'builders of walls' sow fear and divide"

Pope Francis has taken another shot at wall-building politicians, telling thousands of Catholics in Panama gathered for World Youth Day that "builders of walls sow fear" and "divide people."

"We know that the father of lies, the devil, prefers a community divided and bickering," Francis told a crowd of tens of thousands of youth Thursday night at a seaside park in Panama City.

I am a former practicing RC who left the church because this pope can't seem to keep his divisive politics to himself.
How dare this pope talk about the father of lies, the devil, who the church has protected for decades by turning the blind eye to child molestation and pedophilia.

Agreed. This guy is just a make over for the RCC. They'll continue to do their dirt, while pointing at others. It's a major problem today: hypocrisy and lack of accountability.
 
Back
Top Bottom