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Stone indicted

Athanasius68 said:
It's what the indictment on Stone alleges. The campaign reached out to Stone to find out what Wikileaks had.
If the campaign had a direct line to Russia or Wikileaks, there would have been no need to ask Stone to find out.
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So in other words, an hour ago, Stone wasn’t working for the campaign, but now he is.

Do you think ‘the campaign’ learns stuff thru osmosis? Telepathy? Prayer?

OF COURSE they need to have a physical person to communicate back and forth.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Which is relevant to exactly nothing, since Mueller's report is not out yet. And those crimes involved conscious and repeated lying about their contacts with....wait for it.... Russians. And, very often, Russians w/known intelligence service ties.
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It means a lot because no conspiracy is being established.

Yes people were convicted with lying about the contacts. Not with the contacts themselves.
And that was all. There was no indictments/convictions that such contacts were part of a conspiracy to throw the election.
Not only that, Mueller is saying more that there was NO conspiracy than keeping quiet as to whether it existed. This was made clear in the PapaD conviction, and of course Manafort was convicted of nothing related to collusion.
 
Threegoofs said:
So in other words, an hour ago, Stone wasn’t working for the campaign, but now he is.

Do you think ‘the campaign’ learns stuff thru osmosis? Telepathy? Prayer?

OF COURSE they need to have a physical person to communicate back and forth.
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What do you want me to tell you? The guy left in 2015. Somebody in the campaign thought he might be able to find out what Wikileaks had. Yet again-- if the campaign had a direct conduit to Wikileaks, if they had conspired with Wikileaks there would have been no reason to ask Stone.
And in the indictment, Mueller said that STONE didn't know what Wikileaks had-' he had to reach out to people he knew.

So there was no direct line between Trump & Co and Wikileaks.
And guess what? If the campaign needed to through such a torturous route to get to Wikileaks, what do you think that means about Trump & Co and Russia? Why bother going to Wikileaks if they could just turn to the horse's mouth?
Nah-- collusion is a fantasy.
 
Somerville said:
from my earlier post "Another alleged misstatement is related to Manafort's discussions with Konstantin Kilimnik, a person identified by the FBI as being associated with Russian intelligence. According to prosecutors, the discussions occurred on Aug. 2, 2016, while Manafort was Trump campaign chair, and continued through 2018.

Could be as simple as Kushner's ego demanding that HE been the go-to guy. Hopefully, we will find out in the near future.
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Manafort left the campaign in 2016. Whatever went on in 2017 and 2018 is irrelevant to our purposes here.
 
Athanasius68 said:
What do you want me to tell you? The guy left in 2015. Somebody in the campaign thought he might be able to find out what Wikileaks had. Yet again-- if the campaign had a direct conduit to Wikileaks, if they had conspired with Wikileaks there would have been no reason to ask Stone.
And in the indictment, Mueller said that STONE didn't know what Wikileaks had-' he had to reach out to people he knew.

So there was no direct line between Trump & Co and Wikileaks.
And guess what? If the campaign needed to through such a torturous route to get to Wikileaks, what do you think that means about Trump & Co and Russia? Why bother going to Wikileaks if they could just turn to the horse's mouth?
Nah-- collusion is a fantasy.
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In other words, he was working for the campaign, but not working for the campaign.

Whatever, dude. [emoji849]
 
Threegoofs said:
In other words, he was working for the campaign, but not working for the campaign.

Whatever, dude. [emoji849]
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You have never reached out to anyone who does not work with you in the same company, but think might be able to help you out in something?
 
Athanasius68 said:
It means a lot because no conspiracy is being established.
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Irrelevant, as the totality of circumstances was enough to begin investigations going and probable cause for warrants.
Yes people were convicted with lying about the contacts. Not with the contacts themselves.
And that was all. There was no indictments/convictions that such contacts were part of a conspiracy to throw the election.
Not only that, Mueller is saying more that there was NO conspiracy than keeping quiet as to whether it existed. This was made clear in the PapaD conviction, and of course Manafort was convicted of nothing related to collusion.
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Also irrelevant, and Mueller's report isn't out yet.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Irrelevant, as the totality of circumstances was enough to begin investigations going and probable cause for warrants.

Also irrelevant, and Mueller's report isn't out yet.
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It's rather relevant because that's been the claim. Indeed, it's the rationale for the appointment of Mueller.
And when Mueller's report comes out, it will not be diametrically opposed to that what he is saying now in terms of his court actions. It won't say, for example, that Mr. Stone was neck deep in with Wikileaks or Russia when his indictments say nothing of the sort.
 
Athanasius68 said:
To investigate alleged Trump campaign coordination with Russia during the 2016 election.

How do innocent people react when accused of something they did not do? Shrug their shoulder? Maybe. Be outraged? Maybe.
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That's not true. That's just something that was invented to give the administration something to deny and some reason to call for the investigation to end. Mueller was charged by the Attorney-General's office, Trump's A-G office, with investigating whether or not Russia interfered in the election.
It's been a huge success so far. Many indictments, including many Russians, have come out of it so far and do you doubt there'll be many more?
 
Grand Mal said:
That's not true. That's just something that was invented to give the administration something to deny and some reason to call for the investigation to end. Mueller was charged by the Attorney-General's office, Trump's A-G office, with investigating whether or not Russia interfered in the election.
It's been a huge success so far. Many indictments, including many Russians, have come out of it so far and do you doubt there'll be many more?
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It is true-- it states it flat out in the order from Rosenstein.

There were a dozen indictments of Russians for hacking.
That's it. All other indictments/convictions have nothing to do with Russian interference.
 
Athanasius68 said:
It is true-- it states it flat out in the order from Rosenstein.

There were a dozen indictments of Russians for hacking.
That's it. All other indictments/convictions have nothing to do with Russian interference.
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26 Russians and a whole whack of Americans, most of whom lied to Congress or the FBI or a judge.

Mueller indictments: everyone charged so far in the Russia investigation - Vox

13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft.
Konstantin Kilimnik: This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia, was charged alongside Manafort.
12 Russian GRU officers: These officers of Russia’s military intelligence service were charged with crimes related to the hacking and leaking of leading Democrats’ emails in 2016.
 
Grand Mal said:
26 Russians and a whole whack of Americans, most of whom lied to Congress or the FBI or a judge.

Mueller indictments: everyone charged so far in the Russia investigation - Vox

13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft.
Konstantin Kilimnik: This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia, was charged alongside Manafort.
12 Russian GRU officers: These officers of Russia’s military intelligence service were charged with crimes related to the hacking and leaking of leading Democrats’ emails in 2016.
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Yep. And those Americans charged, were not charged with collusion type crimes. They were, for the most part, charged with process crimes.

And those Russians charged, none have ties to the Trump campaign.
 
Athanasius68 said:
It's rather relevant because that's been the claim. Indeed, it's the rationale for the appointment of Mueller.
And when Mueller's report comes out, it will not be diametrically opposed to that what he is saying now in terms of his court actions. It won't say, for example, that Mr. Stone was neck deep in with Wikileaks or Russia when his indictments say nothing of the sort.
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I LOVE it when people have magical hats that allow them to see into the future!

I, too, have such a hat, but it only tells me that the word 'mustard' will not be in what it says.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Yep. And those Americans charged, were not charged with collusion type crimes. They were, for the most part, charged with process crimes.

And those Russians charged, none have ties to the Trump campaign.
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Point is, though, that the investigation continues to be effective.
Wouldn't anyone think that Trump supporters would be glad that so many charges continue to come out of the investigation and none of them include Trump? Wouldn't you think they (Trump supporters) would want the investigation to continue as long as it's still uncovering crimes?
 
Tanngrisnir said:
I LOVE it when people have magical hats that allow them to see into the future!

I, too, have such a hat, but it only tells me that the word 'mustard' will not be in what it says.
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Not sure why it's magical to think that as Mueller is not charging people for collusion type crimes, he will issue a report saying there was lots of collusion type crimes.
 
Grand Mal said:
Point is, though, that the investigation continues to be effective.
Wouldn't anyone think that Trump supporters would be glad that so many charges continue to come out of the investigation and none of them include Trump? Wouldn't you think they (Trump supporters) would want the investigation to continue as long as it's still uncovering crimes?
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It's not so much uncovering crimes during its investigation as crimes are being committed during the investigation.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Not sure why it's magical to think that as Mueller is not charging people for collusion type crimes, he will issue a report saying there was lots of collusion type crimes.
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So despite all your education and experience... despite all your reading and acquiring information .... and despite it having been explained how this works for a number of times beyond calculation you are going to try and play dumb and pretend you really just fell off the turnip truck and really truly have no idea how investigations work or how the process of going after the little fish to get the big fish actually works?

That is disgusting.
 
haymarket said:
So despite all your education and experience... despite all your reading and acquiring information .... and despite it having been explained how this works for a number of times beyond calculation you are going to try and play dumb and pretend you really just fell off the turnip truck and really truly have no idea how investigations work or how the process of going after the little fish to get the big fish actually works?

That is disgusting.
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You just can't reach True Believers™

They are immune to facts, objective analysis, statistical regression, the historical record, the whole nine yards.
 
Athanasius68 said:
So here is yet somebody else indicted for perjury ie. process crimes by Mueller. He will join the long list of people who will 'have the good's' on Trump, and who never quite seem to do.

Roger Stone indicted by Mueller who says Stone was coordinating with Trump officials about WikiLeaks' stolen emails - CNNPolitics
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So much for "there is no need for this investigation"

HA!

This is like the 70's. Watching Nixon's henchmen fall one by one, each THEM as arrogant as these, and just and dirty.

WE need to see Trump's tax returns. The son-of-a-bitch made millions off of thousands of illegal aliens working at one third the going rate. The prick built his empire off the backs of Spanish-American peasants.

And then told us all that they are "murderers, rapists and thieves"
 
Tanngrisnir said:
I LOVE it when people have magical hats that allow them to see into the future!

I, too, have such a hat, but it only tells me that the word 'mustard' will not be in what it says.
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Your hat is made out of tin foil. :lol:
 
PoS said:
To be fair though, there's still no smoking gun that could get Trump into trouble.
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If there ever was one.

It is the Republicans who are constantly looking over their shoulder for that one piece that ties him in, like the Watergate Tapes. But, if you read the charter given to Mueller it makes no reference to any individual and is certainly not a "get Trump", but rather to determine the scope of Russian meddling and related issues. There has never been an accusation of "collusion", but for the record "collusion" has been very well documented, and here once again if you want to look at the indictment.

Trump triggered his own paranoia gland the moment Mueller was named, always sure they are "trying to get me."

What has been interesting? Mueller has served the people of the United States for many many years as a Republican, and because he wasn't corrupt and agree to limiting his campaign, you Republicans ate your own young and tried to destroy his reputation.

And we cannot but wonder why Trump has so nastily attacked this guy. The only reason I can think of is that Trump knows to what level the constitution was violated.
 
Xelor said:
Document: Indictment of Roger Stone

Hopefully folks who have something to say about the charges will read the document before making their remarks.

What makes Stone's indictment and arrest a big deal? He's the link between the Trump campaign and Wikileaks. Another piece of the puzzle is laid.

The indictment indicates Stone was bid to keep the Trump campaign apprised of upcoming Wikileaks "drops."
-- Who in the campaign bid him so, literally and by way of delegation?
-- Who in the campaign knew about that bidding?
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I will give it a full read when I have time, but the scanning I did do seems to implicate the National Inquirer.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Yep. And those Americans charged, were not charged with collusion type crimes. They were, for the most part, charged with process crimes.

And those Russians charged, none have ties to the Trump campaign.
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Don't destroy their conspiracy theory with cold hard facts. It could make them retreat to their safe place and crul up in a fetal position. There was no Russian collusion if there were we it would have been leaked by now or we would have seen charges related to it.
 
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