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Trump says he will not give State of the Union until after shutdown ends

EMNofSeattle said:
Who the public blames is irrelevant. If Trump holds strong and the Dems cave the public will immediately blame the democrats.
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I would actually go so far as to say that morale among registered Democrats would collapse and the the Democratic Party would fracture. Now, before you get a stiffy over that possibility, you can first consider that that is at least one reason why Democrats will literally never cave to trump’s demands.
 
Cardinal said:
I would actually go so far as to say that morale among registered Democrats would collapse and the the Democratic Party would fracture. Now, before you get a stiffy over that possibility, you can first consider that that is at least one reason why Democrats will literally never cave to trump’s demands.
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I think they might, many democrats played the “I’m a responsible centrist moderate” card and others represent heavily federal workforce districts. They may see it as in their political interests to get their constituents pay restarted and to hell with the intersectional racial identitarian extremists who want no border security. I actually think Trump will open the riff. If you have legit constituents who want their pay back and don’t care about the wall either way I gotta think you can’t ignore them forever for a screaming twitter mob’s sake


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EMNofSeattle said:
I think they might, many democrats played the “I’m a responsible centrist moderate” card and others represent heavily federal workforce districts. They may see it as in their political interests to get their constituents pay restarted and to hell with the intersectional racial identitarian extremists who want no border security. I actually think Trump will open the riff. If you have legit constituents who want their pay back and don’t care about the wall either way I gotta think you can’t ignore them forever for a screaming twitter mob’s sake


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You have no idea what is at stake here. If you think the Democrats will cave then you understand nothing.
 
dobieg said:
Are you really under the illusion that if this drags on that federal workers and the American public won't start to blame Democrats from keeping the government closed over semantics? The Wall vs drones?


Good luck!
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Those that don't know what a ladder or shovel is will blame the Democrats.



Those that do will blame the Republicans.

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HumblePi said:
That's what part of the problem was to begin with. Yes, the SOTU address is historically upbeat, hopeful and encouraging for everyone in the country, not just 45% of the people, or 65% of the people, but 100% of the country. History has shown that Trump has a difficult time sugar-coating anything and has a propensity for going off script and going on rant as he does at his rallies. It will be nothing more than political partisanship, finger pointing and blame naming. That's not all all what a SOTU speech is intended to be.

And you are wrong when you said "they won't give him even one inch of fence". Democrats are still willing to discuss government funds for additional border agents, enhanced technology and increased security infrastructure (fencing)— especially at ports of entry where most illegal drugs enter the country — but no wall funding.
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You're just pissed Trump is giving the speech instead of Obama or Hillary.

Millions of American will enjoy Trump's speech just as much as your side did when Obama was President.
 
Cardinal said:
You have no idea what is at stake here. If you think the Democrats will cave then you understand nothing.
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Well wait until blue city businessmen’s flights start getting cancelled and the food stamps get turned off and the federal workers enter week 8 with no pay. These actions will hurt democrat voters far more then republican voters. The phone lines to congressmen in urban districts will be melting. Self interest is a powerful force.


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JustHanging said:
Those that don't know what a ladder or shovel is will blame the Democrats.



Those that do will blame the Republicans.
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lol


Only nickel head liberals would squeal in delight at a 12' ladder to get over a 30 ft wall.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Well wait until blue city businessmen’s flights start getting cancelled and the food stamps get turned off and the federal workers enter week 8 with no pay. These actions will hurt democrat voters far more then republican voters. The phone lines to congressmen in urban districts will be melting. Self interest is a powerful force.


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Republicans will sooner take on compulsory abortion as their official platform before Democrats cave.

You just don’t get it.
 
HumblePi said:
That's what part of the problem was to begin with. Yes, the SOTU address is historically upbeat, hopeful and encouraging for everyone in the country, not just 45% of the people, or 65% of the people, but 100% of the country. History has shown that Trump has a difficult time sugar-coating anything and has a propensity for going off script and going on rant as he does at his rallies. It will be nothing more than political partisanship, finger pointing and blame naming. That's not all all what a SOTU speech is intended to be.

And you are wrong when you said "they won't give him even one inch of fence". Democrats are still willing to discuss government funds for additional border agents, enhanced technology and increased security infrastructure (fencing)— especially at ports of entry where most illegal drugs enter the country — but no wall funding.
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First of all, you don't even know what is in the speech. Second of all, if Democrats hadn't gone off on the total resistance kick, he wouldn't even have it in a speech at all, it would have been the usual rah rah rah speech, everything's going great or going in a great direction. But, the real state of the union for the last many years has been the dysfunctional Congress and biased partisanship that causes nothing to get done. SOTU should be about the real state of the union, which is getting sadder and sadder every day due to BOTH parties.
 
dobieg said:
You're just pissed Trump is giving the speech instead of Obama or Hillary.

Millions of American will enjoy Trump's speech just as much as your side did when Obama was President.
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That's just childish, I don't play childish games like that. Stick to some facts if you want to be pertinent.
 
Moderate Right said:
First of all, you don't even know what is in the speech. Second of all, if Democrats hadn't gone off on the total resistance kick, he wouldn't even have it in a speech at all, it would have been the usual rah rah rah speech, everything's going great or going in a great direction. But, the real state of the union for the last many years has been the dysfunctional Congress and biased partisanship that causes nothing to get done. SOTU should be about the real state of the union, which is getting sadder and sadder every day due to BOTH parties.
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We have to judge Trump by his past and judging from his past speeches they have always, including the one at the United Nations, have been partisan, accusatory of others like NATO, and boastful of his 'so called accomplishments'. He's as easy to read as an open book. His SOTU wouldn't be any different. The reality is that the country is undergoing something really dangerous to the foundations of democracy right now. Trump is being just about as dictatorial as any 3rd world country dictator.
 
Cardinal said:
Republicans will sooner take on compulsory abortion as their official platform before Democrats cave.

You just don’t get it.
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I think I get it better then you. The democratic caucus is divided, there’s too many competing interests, the amount of money requested is small, Trump is an irrational actor and there’s no guarantee the caucus won’t fracture anyway if a shutdown continues too long.


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EMNofSeattle said:
I think I get it better then you. The democratic caucus is divided, there’s too many competing interests, the amount of money requested is small, Trump is an irrational actor and there’s no guarantee the caucus won’t fracture anyway if a shutdown continues too long.


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Democrats were more divided on Pelosi's Speakership. Then she became Speaker, we all saw how she used that power, and she promptly united all Democrats instantly. Democrats on this board who hate Pelosi have thrown their full support to her in light of how she's handling the shutdown.

You don't get it.
 
Cardinal said:
Democrats were more divided on Pelosi's Speakership. Then she became Speaker, we all saw how she used that power, and she promptly united all Democrats instantly. Democrats on this board who hate Pelosi have thrown their full support to her in light of how she's handling the shutdown.

You don't get it.
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For now. Wait another month.

Trump and 34 senators need to stand strong, and the shutdown continues the democrats need only lose 17 house members


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HumblePi said:
Read her words 'END THE SHUTDOWN, THEN WE TALK'. Nancy Pelosi has done much more than 'jack'. She has caused Trump's approval rating to crash from 55% the day of the shutdown to 37% today.
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And why should anyone believe Democrats when they have demonstrated that they are untrustworthy in negotiation when they get their way first, for decades?

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HumblePi said:
We have to judge Trump by his past and judging from his past speeches they have always, including the one at the United Nations, have been partisan, accusatory of others like NATO, and boastful of his 'so called accomplishments'. He's as easy to read as an open book. His SOTU wouldn't be any different. The reality is that the country is undergoing something really dangerous to the foundations of democracy right now. Trump is being just about as dictatorial as any 3rd world country dictator.
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To be honest, to me, this is a totally worthless debate. I gave up watching SOTU's a long time ago. Can't even remember the last one I saw, maybe one of Obama's, maybe not. They have never been anything more than, "Hey, look at the great job I'm doing or will be doing, now I'll quit talking for a couple of minutes so you can all clap". Didn't watch Trump's last year. Wasn't going to watch Trump's this year. One reason Trump got elected was because Trump wasn't a politician and told it like it was, screw political correctness. Some president ought to have the balls and get up there and say that the State Of The Union sucks because both sides are too partisan to even accomplish anything other than endless investigations of the other party for purely partisan reasons.
 
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This surprises me. I figured he would just give it somewhere else. But he is doing exactly what Nancy suggested he do.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
This surprises me. I figured he would just give it somewhere else. But he is doing exactly what Nancy suggested he do.
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He needs the official pomp and circumstance that only giving the SotU from the House floor provides.

That is much more important to him than his shutdown and the resulting 800,000 unemployed Americans it caused.
 
j-mac said:
And why should anyone believe Democrats when they have demonstrated that they are untrustworthy in negotiation when they get their way first, for decades?

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Not a point. Everyone clearly heard and understood what she said.
 
Cardinal said:
He needs the official pomp and circumstance that only giving the SotU from the House floor provides.

That is much more important to him than his shutdown and the resulting 800,000 unemployed Americans it caused.
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Speaking of the 800,000 federal workers. Wilbur Ross stuck his foot in his mouth an hour ago. I had to back up my DVR to see it twice to believe it.

Government shutdown: Wilbur Ross slammed for remark on furloughed employees

Social media is calling it the Trump administration’s “Marie Antoinette moment” after a filthy rich cabinet minister said workers affected by the shutdown should get over it.

Mr Ross, whose financial disclosure forms reveal $US700 million ($A980 million) in assets, said he “didn’t quite understand” why workers would be presenting at food banks and homeless shelters.

He advocated that workers borrow from a bank or credit union, telling TV show Squawk Box “there is really not a good excuse why there should be a liquidity crisis. True, people will have to pay a little interest.”

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