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Republicans Push Trump Immigration Plan, Seeking to Corner Democrats on Shutdown

uptower said:
I actually think his base depend more on him than Coulter and Limbaugh. There dedication to him has proven very resilient. It is a true cult of personality. Everyone who's been jettisoned from his orbit has been somehow to blame. Everything he does wrong is someone's fault. A talking head who criticizes him is disloyal; they can scapegoat some adviser if it makes them feel better but that orange stuff? That's a new improved Teflon coating.

Besides I'm still confident he can convince them a defeat is a win: he can simply lie. He can say the Dems offered him no money for border security (untrue, they offered some, but not for the wall) and when they do offer money for security he can claim it's for the wall (though it won't be). His 'truths' can be shoehorned whatever results come and his supporters will go along with it.
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I'm just not so sure. This would have been settled if it weren't for coulter and limbaugh. Trump never cared about the wall the whole senate voted for funding the government and trump was going to sign without 'wall' money and then the two diamonds of conservatism opened their mouths and hit trump right in his ego calling him a failed president if he didn't' get the wall. Hell truthfully not many republicans cared about a wall and almost everyone wants border security. Just not trump's wall but that blow to the ego, he couldn't stand that.
 
bongsaway said:
I'm just not so sure. This would have been settled if it weren't for coulter and limbaugh. Trump never cared about the wall the whole senate voted for funding the government and trump was going to sign without 'wall' money and then the two diamonds of conservatism opened their mouths and hit trump right in his ego calling him a failed president if he didn't' get the wall. Hell truthfully not many republicans cared about a wall and almost everyone wants border security. Just not trump's wall but that blow to the ego, he couldn't stand that.
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Actually you have a point: Trump himself listens to those two because they're on TV and that's all he cares about, so in a way they shape his policy. But looking past that I believe - and what I would have thought trump might have instinctively grasped by now - is that he can probably placate his base even if Coulter and Limbaugh aren't all that happy. The 30% will forgive him for anything.
 
uptower said:
Actually you have a point: Trump himself listens to those two because they're on TV and that's all he cares about, so in a way they shape his policy. But looking past that I believe - and what I would have thought trump might have instinctively grasped by now - is that he can probably placate his base even if Coulter and Limbaugh aren't all that happy. The 30% will forgive him for anything.
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It's hard not to disagree with serious posters who know what's happening in america. I do see your point about his base, he probably could shoot someone on fifth avenue and his base would find a way to ignore it. He could also try to just keep bamboozling his base into believing he won by claiming the dems caved and will provide the funding for the wall that's he already started building. If you made a comedy movie of this nobody would believe the premise it's so outrageous.
 
OscarLevant said:
The problem with their approach is that Pelosi's position is that dems will not negotiate with hostage taking shutdowns, because to do so would encourage another shutdown 30 days from now and on an on, in this era of short CRs. ( That's the problem, or a big one, right there). I dont think it's going to work, because Dems can see right through it. The majority of Americans are with Dems on this one, and the stats prove it. Repubs must open the gov first, then dems will negotiate.

On the other hand, if Trump could offer permanency for DACA and a path to citizenship for them, she'd have to consider it, I believe, given that that is such a big concession I doubt Trump would ever do another shutdown to get his way, in the future, given the price he will have to pay for it on this one and future shutdowns. I think this is the solution.
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Well, I think that Pelosi and demo's should continue to refuse every offer, schedule time out of town so that they're unavailable, and demagogue the issue to death...Should be a huge winner for them....Go for it!
 
OscarLevant said:
Yes, but prior presidents had empathy for the people harmed during the shutdown.

Trump has NO empathy for the 800,000 who are being deprived of their pay. Prior presidents, all of them, certainly did. Pelosi knows this about Trump.

In other words, because the other presidents could feel their pain, they kept the shutdown short, or at least didn't allow it to go on as long as it is happening now. This president, he'll harm 800,000 people for a long time because he doesn't give a **** about them, he only cares about the opinions of Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh and his base. Pelosi knows this, and she knows that if Trump gets his way on this CR, he'll do it over and over and over again. With this prez, three times is enough. ENOUGH !
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And Pelosi and Chuck couldn't care less about the 800,000 workers or the DACA kids either. They could end the shutdown tomorrow and increase security at the border ports of entry help reduce opiods that are killing 60,000 Americans a year, and help the DACA kids and put fencing where the Border Patrol says they need them. But Nancy and Chuck's personal political ambitions are more important than any of those things.

Trump should declare a national emergency and use the money set aside for the California fires and for Puerto Rico then let Nancy and Chuck worry about replacing those funds. After all Trump will never win California and it is Nancy's home state and Puerto Rico doesn't vote for President.
 
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Chomsky said:
He wants a permanent wall, I'd say he needs to give a permanent DACA.

Remember, DACA is gone because he removed it. He's not even giving what he took.
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DACA should never have been just an executive order to begin with, it should be law passed by congress.

That's one tiny aspect of Trump's removal that I agreed with, but it would have been far better to get a bill passed through congress to cover it and THEN kill the EO.
 
Mycroft said:
The GOP are just making the Dem's box a little bit smaller.

Schumer will oppose this and Pelosi will ignore this. This will all be part of the justification Trump needs to declare a national emergency.
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The national emergency of 45's shutdown is unfunded TSA, ATC, FDA, ICE, Border Control, FBI, State, Secret Service, IRS, Coast Guard, et al. Remember 45 said he wouldn't blame Democrats for the shutdown.
 
SLC said:
I bet officer Singh's family think its a little more than just a political problem.
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If Trump were to have it his way Officer Singh and his family would not even be in this country.
 
Mycroft said:
The GOP are just making the Dem's box a little bit smaller.

Schumer will oppose this and Pelosi will ignore this. This will all be part of the justification Trump needs to declare a national emergency.
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I hope Trump does this. It won't end well for him.
 
uptower said:
I bet he can. You see his base have got nobody else. It's Trump or nothing. He just needs to sell it like he always does and tell them it's a win. The smart ones who also really hate immigrants will be wise to it, but for most who just generally want 'border security' he can easily claim a smaller amount is a good start and move on from there. He won't lose his base over it.
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The knuckle-draggers and mouth-breathers won't vote for anyone else, but many of them could stay home.
 
bongsaway said:
It's hard not to disagree with serious posters who know what's happening in america. I do see your point about his base, he probably could shoot someone on fifth avenue and his base would find a way to ignore it. He could also try to just keep bamboozling his base into believing he won by claiming the dems caved and will provide the funding for the wall that's he already started building. If you made a comedy movie of this nobody would believe the premise it's so outrageous.
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Bamboozling is the word. Pretty soon he'll have them believing the wall is already finished and Pelosi engineered the shut down to distract us from it.
 
Parrish said:
The national emergency of 45's shutdown is unfunded TSA, ATC, FDA, ICE, Border Control, FBI, State, Secret Service, IRS, Coast Guard, et al. Remember 45 said he wouldn't blame Democrats for the shutdown.
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That one will be resolved in an instant. Then Trump will get to work on the other one.

And there's not a damned thing the Dems can do to stop him.
 
uptower said:
Bamboozling is the word. Pretty soon he'll have them believing the wall is already finished and Pelosi engineered the shut down to distract us from it.
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Brilliant, that's so insane it should be easily believable by his base.
 
The Mark said:
DACA should never have been just an executive order to begin with, it should be law passed by congress.

That's one tiny aspect of Trump's removal that I agreed with, but it would have been far better to get a bill passed through congress to cover it and THEN kill the EO.
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Congress was never going to get off their A**** and do their job as long as the DACA kids were protected by an EO. They didn't even do it when the Dems controlled the House, Senate, and White House. Trump was just trying to light a fire under Congress' A**.
 
OscarLevant said:
The problem with their approach is that Pelosi's position is that dems will not negotiate with hostage taking shutdowns, because to do so would encourage another shutdown 30 days from now and on an on, in this era of short CRs. ( That's the problem, or a big one, right there). I dont think it's going to work, because Dems can see right through it. The majority of Americans are with Dems on this one, and the stats prove it. Repubs must open the gov first, then dems will negotiate.

On the other hand, if Trump could offer permanency for DACA and a path to citizenship for them, she'd have to consider it, I believe, given that that is such a big concession I doubt Trump would ever do another shutdown to get his way, in the future, given the price he will have to pay for it on this one and future shutdowns. I think this is the solution.
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It doesn't matter to democrats if Trump opens the government before or after, they are not going to allow him to build any wall sections in fulfillment of campaign promises. The democrat goal is to shut down Trump on every hand in hopes of clearing the way for some democrat goon winning back the White House in 2020.
 
Trump has a pen and a phone.The wall will be built.
 
Chomsky said:
He wants a permanent wall, I'd say he needs to give a permanent DACA.

Remember, DACA is gone because he removed it. He's not even giving what he took.
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It's about the dumbest trade tRump could have offered. For claiming to be a skilled dealmaker, he sure sucks at it.
 
Phys251 said:
It's about the dumbest trade tRump could have offered. For claiming to be a skilled dealmaker, he sure sucks at it.
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It's not an offer. It's a public relations ploy.
 
marke said:
It doesn't matter to democrats if Trump opens the government before or after, they are not going to allow him to build any wall sections in fulfillment of campaign promises. The democrat goal is to shut down Trump on every hand in hopes of clearing the way for some democrat goon winning back the White House in 2020.
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Oh, Pelosi will negotiate. Trump might not get exactly what he wants, but Pelosi will compromise if a permanent DACA solution with a path to citizenship is brought to the table.

You can bank on it.

But, he must open the gov first, that's a nonstarter.
 
OscarLevant said:
Oh, Pelosi will negotiate. Trump might not get exactly what he wants, but Pelosi will compromise if a permanent DACA solution with a path to citizenship is brought to the table.

You can bank on it.

But, he must open the gov first, that's a nonstarter.
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I do not believe the democrats will cooperate with Trump. Pelosi is just a democrat puppet head of the entire corrupt organization. She will not cooperate with Trump on anything if the party is not in favor of it and the party can hardly cooperate with Trump while constantly declaring him unfit for office in their attempt to discredit him on everything. Their primary goal is not helping America but helping democrats grab and maintain brutal control and power over Americans.
 
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