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CNN corrects Native American elder and teens in MAGA hats story.

Phys251 said:
OK, let me make this very simple for you so that you can understand it. Read very slowly so that you can follow.

When you are a field trip chaperone, your number one priority is the safety of the young people under your care. Absolutely nothing is more important. That means if you see a fistfight breaking out a block away, you steer your kids in another direction. If there's something serious going on near a museum or other event where you were planning on going, either you take a back route or you don't go. If you see a bunch of crazy people trying to verbally pick a fight with anyone nearby, as BIM was, you keep your distance from them.

This is not a difficult concept.

This is a basic, simple standard that every parent should expect when they place the lives of their youngsters in the hands of chaperones.

Do you see it now? Or is risking the physical safety of those boys (and that Native American, once he was surrounded by the boys in a scene that felt ripped straight out of Lord of the Flies) fine by you as long as they say what you wanted to say? Is this all because of tribalism, Chris? Is it because of their political positions? Does that excuse everything they did?
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Yep, and you have solid evidence of the great physical harm done to those kids by simply staying put and doing a few "frenzied" school cheers. So many needless injuries could have been avoided if only they had moved the group of kids away from a few folks shouting insults at them.
 
Phys251 said:
OK, let me make this very simple for you so that you can understand it. Read very slowly so that you can follow.

When you are a field trip chaperone, your number one priority is the safety of the young people under your care. Absolutely nothing is more important. That means if you see a fistfight breaking out a block away, you steer your kids in another direction. If there's something serious going on near a museum or other event where you were planning on going, either you take a back route or you don't go. If you see a bunch of crazy people trying to verbally pick a fight with anyone nearby, as BIM was, you keep your distance from them.

This is not a difficult concept.

This is a basic, simple standard that every parent should expect when they place the lives of their youngsters in the hands of chaperones.

Do you see it now? Or is risking the physical safety of those boys (and that Native American, once he was surrounded by the boys in a scene that felt ripped straight out of Lord of the Flies) fine by you as long as they say what you wanted to say? Is this all because of tribalism, Chris? Is it because of their political positions? Does that excuse everything they did?
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The boys never surrounded the native american... He walked through them and tried to divide their crowd in half on purpose... Where was this voilence you keep hinting towards? You cant crucify these boys for having an opinion. They are 16 ffs not 8. The boys did good.

We get it. You want your kids to run from hatespeach. You want Martin Luther Kings kids to run from racism. You want Jesus to run from Satan.

Orrrrr. You still think the kids are "a wild pack of racist white kids"

The kids did NOTHING wrong. They stood up to racism that day. And you hate it. For some reason.
 
Phys251 said:
Oh cool! That's a great idea! Hey let's make that the new standard! "Officer, I was shooting my gun into the crowd, but none of the bullets hit anybody! Why are you arresting me?"

Good god, dude, please, just stop already.
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The kids didnt show any hate that day... They defensively cheered against racism. And for some reason this bothers you enough to focus on the kids and their chaperone instead of the hateful people! 16 years old is borderline man almost and if they want to rally against racists you cant really stop them.
 
Phys251 said:
Oh cool! That's a great idea! Hey let's make that the new standard! "Officer, I was shooting my gun into the crowd, but none of the bullets hit anybody! Why are you arresting me?"

Good god, dude, please, just stop already.
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No shots were fired or punches exchanged so perhaps you should just calm yourself down and admit that the situation was handled without any violence at all.
 
party free said:
They chaperones should have keep them from being involved, period.
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I agree with 100%. Earlier on one of these threads it was pointed out that the students were subjected to the heckling from the black group for an hour. I've watched various videos but have not bothered to time how long it was but even if it was 15 minutes wth did the chaperones not move them away from the verbal assault? One chaperone interviewed damn near cries while she talks about what was being said but what (as a person in charge of these kids) did she or others do? If I was a parent of those kids I'd be wondering why they left my kid there to be verbally assaulted?
 
Xelor said:
I went to Episcopal middle school and an Episcopal boarding school after that. We had both a good deal of discipline and a good deal of leeway to horse around. The one thing we could never, ever do or seem even slightly to have done was disrespect an adult. From the headmaster, groundskeeper, cook, teacher, visitor, etc., we were universally and unrelentingly deferential to our superiors, which, then as now, means any adult. Period.

That's not to say we weren't allowed to challenge our superiors, plead our case, etc., but rather that is there is a way to do so. Staring down an adult with a smug look like that boy has is one of the many wrong ways to do so. Trying that with an adult, showing any smug expression or snide tone of voice, was deemed insubordinate.

We could try a stunt like that amongst ourselves, and maybe one'd get away with it and maybe one wouldn't; that'd depend on the person with whom one tried it. Quite frankly, that boy's expression -- I'm cute; I'm tough; I'm as much a man as you; I dare you to press me -- is the one that quickly changes as an altercation progresses ever closer to a fight. If we tried that with our teachers or parents, we found out licketysplit that we were neither as much a man nor even half the woman (in the case of Momma or our housekeeper) as they.
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FOR ****S SAKE the native american approached the little kid and stared him down. Watch the ****in' video! Stop spreading your god damn lies. The man even admitts "I was walking up to most of the kids and most of them got out of my way, but then one kid refused to move."
 
Fishking said:
Ah...just when I thought you were coming around to being more reasonable you post this steaming pile of trash. I never said he wasn't allowed to post w/e nonsense he wants. I'm 100% fine with that. I'm just pointing out he's wrong. Flat out wrong. It's OK though...he's allowed to be continually wrong, just like you are. It doesn't make me uncomfortable. It makes me feel two things, wonder at how someone could be so divorced from reality or frustrated knowing that ya'll actually know you're wrong but continuing regardless because you've invested too much into your position and aren't mature enough to admit you're wrong.
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Go back and look at your quote. You laid out what people are allowed to do, and do it without "someone like you coming along and claiming they just did all of this specifically to stir the pot."

Ugh, he is ALLOWED to stir the pot... :shrug:

You want to lose your cool about my statement, then go on... and you think I am coming around to being more reasonable... :lol: I can be a reasonable person, capable of productive debate, but I don't find your position reason, nor do I find the position of most Trump supporters around her as reasonable.

First of all, we have Trump posters acting like the media is biased against these kids because they are white. Really, that is some insane BS.

Then you have the other Trump supporters, acting like the so called MSM is irresponsible and spreading hate and fake news, but they fail to admit the follies, bias, propaganda, and fake news Fox has been caught spreading.

And last of all, you yourself act like I have hate in my heart for these kids.

No, I am not coming around to any of that BS! The more I talk most Trump supporters, the more and more my opinion of them declines.
 
SkyFox76 said:
I agree with 100%. Earlier on one of these threads it was pointed out that the students were subjected to the heckling from the black group for an hour. I've watched various videos but have not bothered to time how long it was but even if it was 15 minutes wth did the chaperones not move them away from the verbal assault? One chaperone interviewed damn near cries while she talks about what was being said but what (as a person in charge of these kids) did she or others do? If I was a parent of those kids I'd be wondering why they left my kid there to be verbally assaulted?
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We get it. You believe brave kids should run away from evil people, even when the kids want to sing songs to drown out the hatespeachers hate. Where as yesterday all you guys were convinced the kid was a little racist instigating asshole. Today its "oh those kids werent evil but its still their adults fault"
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yep, and you have solid evidence of the great physical harm done to those kids by simply staying put and doing a few "frenzied" school cheers. So many needless injuries could have been avoided if only they had moved the group of kids away from a few folks shouting insults at them.
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Right, right. Go ahead, go become a chaperone, endanger as many young lives as you can, take 'em as close to the edge without knocking them over, and then use this defense when the program or school leader fires you. /s

Beyond just poor judgment on how to manage young people, you are exhibiting classic outcome bias. The chaperones had no way of knowing how the situation would turn out. They had no idea whether this would just become a story for those boys. Or flare up and turn into acts of violence.

"But Phys, that didn't happen here!" That. Doesn't. Matter. Laying aside for the moment your outcome bias, you can be right in ten identical cases. A hundred. A thousand.

You only have to be wrong one time.

That's what the chaperones failed to understand. That is why the chaperones failed.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
The kids didnt show any hate that day...
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You lie.

dirtpoorchris said:
We get it. You believe brave kids should run away from evil people, even when the kids want to sing songs to drown out the hatespeachers hate. Where as yesterday all you guys were convinced the kid was a little racist instigating asshole. Today its "oh those kids werent evil but its still their adults fault"
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No, you're in favor of child endangerment. I guess this is the newest frontier for MAGA.
 
Fishking said:
Yes, that's what I said. Did you read the words?



You've obviously shown a lot of animosity towards these kids and the other posters here calling out people for supporting lies.
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BS. I have no hate or animosity towards these kids. I have never defended any of the death threats towards them, nor I have advocated any physical violence. I have condemned such behavior, and have advocated for nothing but the native man and the MAGA kids to reach some form of reconciliation and forgiveness..

Seriously.

I can't talk to somebody who projects such petty and unfounded accusations. You know nothing about me to even say such nonsense, and you obviously don't recognize hate or animosity for what it is.
 
Xelor said:
Red:
  1. I don't want to see anyone get slapped. Nothing I wrote even intimated I want to see anyone get slapped.

    I punished my kids, corporeally and otherwise, but never did I want to do so. It needed to be done and as their father, I did it.
  2. Mr. Phillips isn't an Indian. He is a Native American. He never was an Indian. Europeans errantly called the extant people in the Americas "Indians" because Columbus insisted he'd found his way to India and thus called the folks there "Indians." Columbus intransigently clove to that naming even after the rest of the world acknowledged he hadn't at all found India. (See also: AMR, Vol. 3)
  3. I don't at all think Mr. Phillips is whom should get slapped. Mr. Phillips is not the minor in the matter; thus the behavioral rules to which he is subject are not those to which a minor is. I can't say how you managed to disregard that essential element of the context of my remarks, particularly given it's multiple appearances, but sure enough, you did.
    • "...were I, my siblings, or my peers as minors, or my own kids and their peers as minors..."
    • "Staring down an adult, or appearing to be doing so, just isn't among the things a minor in my world may do."
    • "I don't care to expound on all the ways, wheres and why-fors of how minors, at least the ones in my world, are expected to comport themselves with adults."

Blue:
Let me reiterate: my remarks aren't about the nature of interaction between "you and I" as two adults. It's about such interactions between a minor and an adult.

To answer you question...As I and my kids were raised and as go standard engagements:
If you're a minor and I'm an adult and I approach you in a situation akin to that in which Mr. Phillips was shown to have done, you, the minor, are the one who will show deference by maintaining a neutral expression and backing up, stepping aside, etc. Why? Because you're a minor and I'm an adult. It is truly both that simple and absolute. Neither I with my kids, nor my parents with me, would have forborn any "ifs, ands or buts" in the matter.

If the adult beckons the minor to stay and be addressed, that's a different dynamic, one in which the minor will remain where s/he is and regard the adult with respect and complete attention.

When may a minor regard an adult as that boy appears to be regarding Mr. Phillips? Outside of on a stage while performing a play or something of that sort, in a word, never. When not expressly bid to do so, no minor may presume an adult's equal and, in turn, hold himself before an adult as might another adult.​

dirtpoorchris said:
THE ELDER WALKED UP TO THE KID AND STARED HIM DOWN. BY YOUR OWN LOGIC YOU WANT THE NATIVE AMERICAN TO GET SLAPPED. How come just because the kid is wearing a red hat you think he walked up to the native? You dont just talk all this talk about slapping disrespectful kids for nothing, it has intention. And now we know the TRUTH is the Native American is the one that walked up to the kid and stared at him. So by your logic you want to see the elder get slapped for acting like a disrespectful kid! You just dont know it!
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Blue:
The elder is an adult. That, by my code of adult-minor interaction, means the minor yields way -- stepping aside, stepping back, whatever -- regardless of whether he was "there first."


Red:
Do you realize I haven't said a thing about what anyone wore? Not since my first remarks about the boy and Mr. Phillips.

You should take up the participant's sartorial choices with someone who's mentioned that or who is discussing it or who has indicated that in their mind it's a factor.

Put words in my mouth again and you'll cease to exist as far as I'm concerned. And, no, I'm not telling you that because I think you care, for I'm sure you don't. I'm telling you so you know that if you do quote me, from that point forward, you'll never find me responding to you.
 
Phys251 said:
Right, right. Go ahead, go become a chaperone, endanger as many young lives as you can, take 'em as close to the edge without knocking them over, and then use this defense when the program or school leader fires you. /s

Beyond just poor judgment on how to manage young people, you are exhibiting classic outcome bias. The chaperones had no way of knowing how the situation would turn out. They had no idea whether this would just become a story for those boys. Or flare up and turn into acts of violence.

"But Phys, that didn't happen here!" That. Doesn't. Matter. Laying aside for the moment your outcome bias, you can be right in ten identical cases. A hundred. A thousand.

You only have to be wrong one time.

That's what the chaperones failed to understand. That is why the chaperones failed.
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Rest assured that there are many more dangerous places in DC than where those kids were. They were accused of being offensive by simply remaining there - can you imagine the bad press if they "advanced en masse" toward some other group of professional victims nearby?
 
Phys251 said:
Right, right. Go ahead, go become a chaperone, endanger as many young lives as you can, take 'em as close to the edge without knocking them over, and then use this defense when the program or school leader fires you. /s

Beyond just poor judgment on how to manage young people, you are exhibiting classic outcome bias. The chaperones had no way of knowing how the situation would turn out. They had no idea whether this would just become a story for those boys. Or flare up and turn into acts of violence.

"But Phys, that didn't happen here!" That. Doesn't. Matter. Laying aside for the moment your outcome bias, you can be right in ten identical cases. A hundred. A thousand.

You only have to be wrong one time.

That's what the chaperones failed to understand. That is why the chaperones failed.
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I think you are just against 100 white boys chanting all at once, even if its to stop hate. The boys did nothing wrong. In the end its going to be the BlaHeIsrealites who get doxxed and hunted down by sjws. The BlaHeIsraelites shouldnt have preached hate that day.

To you 100 boys chanting against hate = toxic white masculinity
 
SheWolf said:
I don't advocate violence... :roll:

I also don't hate people. That's just right wing projection
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YET those who take false reports or unverified reports, distort them and VIOLENCE or threat becomes of it.

Are you WHILE YOU DO NOT advocate violence , that these students WERE NOT allowed to return to class due to bomb threats as well as cancelled sporting events.

THIS is UNACCEPTABLE behavior. EVEN IF IT WAS LEGITIMATE, (OF COURSE it was NOT) That fact remains. This was taken out of context with the intent to create divided and deception. WIth that, a "MOB" went to twitter and the Teens are NOT put in unreasonable danger for 1 DUMBASS teen which I know I was a dumbass teen standing smiling with an adult banging a drum in his face.

That is FACT.... did any of Berkeley students get doxxed? How about Bomb threats and other threats....... THIS IS NOT healthy....this is NOT a civil society....This is UNACCEPTABLE behavior by ways of the media.
 
Xelor said:
Blue:
The elder is an adult. That, by my code of adult-minor interaction, means the minor yields way -- stepping aside, stepping back, whatever -- regardless of whether he was "there first."


Red:
Do you realize I haven't said a thing about what anyone wore? Not since my first remarks about the boy and Mr. Phillips.

You should take up the participant's sartorial choices with someone who's mentioned that or who is discussing it or who has indicated that in their mind it's a factor.

Put words in my mouth again and you'll cease to exist as far as I'm concerned. And, no, I'm not telling you that because I think you care, for I'm sure you don't. I'm telling you so you know that if you do quote me, from that point forward, you'll never find me responding to you.
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Ya, you are bull****ting. If an adult walks up to my kid and expects him to shove out of the way im going to go stand next to my kid for attempting to bully my kid. Just because someone is old doesnt give them the right to bully a kid. Just because we are all adults doesnt magically put us on the same team. Respectful kids are on the same team as respectful adults and this old native american man wasnt respectful.

Can u tell me at which second in this video did the boy begin showing disrespect? And which point in this video did the Native American begin showing disrespect? If you could tell me the exact second that would be nice as its only a 2 minute video.




 
marke said:
I commend those who stood up to the deranged black racist morons, even if they were just kids. Even Maxine Waters recommends Americans stand in the faces of bad actors in public.
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Good for you.

A chaperone on this trip should have done more to keep them from being involved in such situations.
 
Phys251 said:
Throughout this thread I have been condemning both sides. But way too many people in this thread are struggling with basic reading comprehension and do not want to interpret that from my words.
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"Both sides"... yeah, except one side is confronting kids and the Native American protesters and screaming racial epithets at everyone and derogatory names and threats and the other side... is smiling weird?

Yeah, the "it was both sides" is just a half walk-back where a full walk back that is necessary.

The target of any reasonable story would be the abhorrent behavior of the Black Hebrew Israelite group, there was no "other side" of bad behavior there. In fact, the Black Hebrew Israelite group goaded the Native American contingent into confronting the kids and yet you think the fair position is to blame both sides? Sorry, no.

And the fact that Nathan Phillips has tried to make it out that the kids were the problem? Again, sorry, no. And what has he done since then? Refused to sit down with the kids, and called for the kids to be expelled. He's part of he problem... all the kids did was be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
SkyFox76 said:
I agree with 100%. Earlier on one of these threads it was pointed out that the students were subjected to the heckling from the black group for an hour. I've watched various videos but have not bothered to time how long it was but even if it was 15 minutes wth did the chaperones not move them away from the verbal assault? One chaperone interviewed damn near cries while she talks about what was being said but what (as a person in charge of these kids) did she or others do? If I was a parent of those kids I'd be wondering why they left my kid there to be verbally assaulted?
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Precisely. Even a private, Christian school should consider whether a political pro-life rally is an appropriate place for the school to take students. On their own, or with their parents, sure.

The school, and the parents who send them there, are certainly within their right to teach whatever stance on abortion they please. But when you take them to a political rally, you're opening the door for situations like this. And by not doing your damned job and actually chaperoning, you're subjecting them to this sort of nonsense.
 
Exactice said:
Im a Trumper per say, But I project no Hate that I am aware of. I am a person of laws and if you protest legally, you are also in the hands of receiving the same criticisms of protest, without breaking laws. Berkeley riots, Portland, Charlottesville. Are where people BROKE laws in their pursuit of protest there is ZERO tolerance.

This current example is the media taking an event and twisting it in their favor, Did you hear what Anna Navarro, the so called registered Republican that is more outspoken about trump than Joy Behar, Did you also see how Kathy Griffin wanted to dox these teens. Yet did they hit someone even say a racist epithet? But because he whore a MAGA hat he was assumed racist while smiling like a smart ass equally to the man banging a drum in his face. Who knew he was walking into a crowd that was angry and "someone else" per his OWN words. Meaning that the 4 black men instigating prior was likely hyping up the crowed/riling them up.

YES the MEDIA is where a lot of information COMES from MORE so the rhetoric and hyped racism.

I do NOT know your situation nor can I justify it. BUT what I can do is judge on the actions of media. Here is a good example. Kathy Griffin Doxxed the kids info, the kid gets hurt or seriously injured due to those seeking retribution YET within 24 ours the media has to do a correction. DO you not see that their spontaneous reporting is INTEND to create descent.

Ala Buzzfeed and 24 hours of Nail in trumps coffin he is going to be impeached.


Media Needs to slow down before someone gets seriously hurt or even killed because you are RIGHT the nations is losing their damn minds...it has become so EXTREME, again the example is someone took Kathy Griffins words and got the kids info and this kid gets hurt for something taken WAY out of context......
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I have a problem with you considering Kathy Griffith "the media" as if she is on CNN every day. I literally saw Fox News condemning the media about this, and conservatives talk about "mainstream media" in reference to news sources other than Fox, and it's honestly getting confusing. I mean, we have the Fake News meme, which I guess is separate from the rest of the media, but it's still confusing. I don't know what Fox News is talking about. Pointing out Kathy Griffith saying something offensive is different from a journalist on CNN saying it, and no journalist said anything that awful that I know.

Who really listens to Kathy Griffith? She is a comedian with a Twitter account. Calling her, the entire media seems problematic, and it's ironic because she has got a lot of hate and death threats following that decapitation photo. She also claims to have lost a lot of money and work.

Just blaming the media is sort sighted. A lot of people make death threats on social media, and spread fake news all over their social media accounts now. We are talking about non celebrities, every day people, using social media to threaten everybody from celebrities to private citizens over politics. It's sick, and what is happening in our society, and how this reflects on the larger society, is a problem and it's not simply "the medias" fault.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yep, and you have solid evidence of the great physical harm done to those kids by simply staying put and doing a few "frenzied" school cheers. So many needless injuries could have been avoided if only they had moved the group of kids away from a few folks shouting insults at them.
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School cheers.

Right.

[emoji849]
 
SheWolf said:
There is no question that the native man approached me. He always said that he did so.

Now I am not really vilifying anybody, and everybody in this situation has their own POV.

In large crowds, people get pushed into places and can't move. The native man says he was surrounded and wanted to walk through. That is his claim. He also claimed, the boy was blocking him.

The boy says, the native man got in his face and started drumming. Based on the boy's letter, the boy claims he felt the native man was confronting him, and decided to stand still.

Both POVs could be true and accurate to both parties, and it's totally understandable given these teen boys were fired up after having been harassed by the Black Israelites and felt a heightened sense of threat.

The vilification and death threats people are getting, is sick and disgusting.

And no matter what these kids did, they did it, and it's on video... it doesn't look good... it doesn't look good for the boy to say he stood still, because he thought the guy was confronting him, because.. yeah... he is stepping to the Native American man. He actually is, because he actually thought he was confronted.

All is fine and can be forgiven, but it's going to somebody involved to put the ****ing victim card down and take responsibility for what they did and how the other side saw their actions. I don't personally advice people acting like these kids are just a bunch of victims either. Coming to an understanding is more important than playing victim.

Also, I am tired of certain posters acting like the media hates Trump supporters because they are white...
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Did you watch the long version of the video from different angles? I understand what your saying, but what could the 15 year old boy have done different. He and his friends were called horrible names by the 4 black guys, then this guy rolls up on him and starts beating a drum in his face, while waiting on the school bus to take them home. I mean really, a 15 year old, being verbally assaulted by grown men, while waiting for a bus. Then a false narrative is developed by CNN, and getting death threats at home, and "celebrities" like Kathy Griffin calling for people to get their names and to publicly shame them on social media, to "dox" them, and Malissa Malano tweeting about them! Think about it. They had to close their school for God sake. So, like it or not, when a 15 year old is harassed on nation media, TV, Radio, Social media, after being called disgusting things, and a 64 year old man gets in his face, he is the victim. Keep in mind, despite the hate that was thrown at him, all he did , was nothing. Did not raise a hand, didn't respond in kind, just smiled.

And I hate to break it to you, but not all Trump supporters are white. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...7/id/898717/&usg=AOvVaw2bniHBgWZ7g4dakPVIoFFB
 
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Phys251 said:
Then those chaperones are some of the most brain-dead adults on the planet. "Let's just turn our kids loose in this tense situation and see what the hell happens!"

I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't the kids but the chaperones that were the problem. Protesters like the ones in the videos are a dime-a-dozen in DC. If you can't put up with their kind of hate speech then you really shouldn't be out in public in the District of Columbia.
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I feel the same, and their chanting and behavior was observed by many witnesses who just walked up. Witnesses gave reports about what they saw, and some of the initial reports had factual errors, such as, the kids did not start racially harassing the black males. Witnesses could have been confused by what they were seeing, but even that aside, their behavior is still unsettling and out of hand given the situation they were in, and what else it led up too.

I read the letter the MAGA kid wrote, and he believed the native man was confronting him. That is a massive misinterpretation of the situation and why the drummer approached the group of students.

I saw an article saying the native man and his group wants to meet these kids, and try some form of reconciliation. That would be a good thing IMO. Our country is so divided, and there just is a lot of racism and sensitivity. I hope they can forgive each other, and hopefully they will set a good example for the jerk out there exploiting this situation and stirring up hate.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I hope you were kidding when you wrote that. Because it is so far off the mark I can't imagine anybody actually believes that.
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I wasn't kidding.

The establishment, democrats and republicans both, is right or center-right.

And the media supports the establishment.
 
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