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Rudy Giuliani says Trump didn't collude with Russia but can't say if campaign aides did

haymarket said:
I have no doubt that people did little things all the time behind his back. Sure.

Colluding with Russia to win the election was a huge giant major epic thing and there is no way Donald was not part of that.
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Well, you're welcome to your opinion. I'll just wait for Muellers report to decide. It's the responsible thing to do.
 
upsideguy said:
You have to love rolling disclosure. We have gone from Russian interference in the US elections was a "nothing burger" to "No collusion" to "Yes, there may been collusion, but Trump wasn't involved" to ...... [insert next disclosure here]

So the Trump team finally admits there may have been collusion within the campaign. This is a stark contrast to there was "no collusion?..... Of course, rolling disclosure is just that, not the truth, just a step or two ahead or sometimes behind what is generally known about the truth. Rolling disclosure usually means more to follow.

What we can say now is that Team Trump has admitted there may have been collusion, so the statement "no collusion" is henceforth a lie.

Stay tuned.
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Collusion is not a crime. Remember when Obama collided on an open mike? He told the ambassador to tell Putin to be patient and that he would have more flexibility after he no longer had to lie, during the campaign. There was no charges brought since collusion is not a crime.

On the other hand, when the Putin and the Russians gave the Clintons $25 million as a donation to the foundation, after Obama and Hillary sold them uranium interests, even this was not pursued, by the left, as collusion being a crime. Maybe the magic number was $26 million, as the litmus test for criminal collusion that involves bribery.

Trump's attempt to build a casino hotel in Russia would have required Trump pay Putin, giving Trump leverage over Putin. The giver of the bribe is in the drivers seat. The receiver of the bribe, like Clinton owe the giver one or two. That is bribery 1.0.

Collusion is a political scam. Although is it not illegal, it is sold as illegal, by the spin factories of fake news. The goal is to impact public opinion for 2020. When Barr becomes AG, the true illegal colluders will be made visible. They were the ones that used KGB style tactics to spy on opposition candidate Trump. Using fake evidence to get a warrant is what Putin would have done in Russia. He may have instructed Obama to copy his KGB style. This was way worse than Nixon and will be traced back to the Obama administration. What did Putin have over Obama and Hillary ,that they would have employed KGB style tactics in the USA?

Remember Judge Kavanaugh and how the left sold the unAmerican concept of guilty until proven innocent. This is also KGB style. Putin is known to use this tactic to silence his opposition. Luckily, the Democrat colluders were not able to alter the American justice system in favor of Putin style.

If you were around during the Cold War, when Russia was the Soviet Union, the Soviets had a propaganda machine that would program its citizen with lopsided and fake news and propaganda. They would not give objective journalists accounts, or show both sides, but the propaganda machine would take one side and make it lopsided in favor of themselves. Fake news is using this soviet template more and more since Trump won. Putin appears to have his claws in the DNC.

The main Soviet censorship body, Glavlit, was employed not only to eliminate any undesirable printed materials (censorship) but also "to ensure that the correct ideological spin was put on every published item" (PC correctt). In the Stalin era, deviation from the dictates of official propaganda was punished by execution and labor camps. In the post-Stalin era, these punitive measures were replaced by punitive psychiatry, prison, denial of work, and loss of citizenship. "Today a man only talks freely to his wife – at night, with the blankets pulled over his head", said writer Isaac Babel privately to a trusted friend.[1]
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One can see the Post Stalin influence on the left wing tactics. Anything against their agenda is attacked as racist, bigoted, sexist, homophobic all to silent logical opposition to the propaganda. If you are not a Trump hater, you should be attacked. If you don't accept LGBTQ you need to have your head examined since you have phobia and other mental defects. Putin has leverage over the left. Something bad happened!
 
CaughtInThe said:
Part of Trump's problem (aside from not being very talented) is that he hires really dumb people.

If he had an expert staff around him (and real attorneys instead of people like Cohen and Giuliani) he wouldn't have half the problems he has. That's on Trump.
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Another part of his problem is he will not listen or take advice from his people.

That is one of the problems he is having finding top tier legal counsel. Lawyers hate clients who won't do as they advise.

Pentagon generals are the same way.
 
Kal'Stang said:
You might have a point if that post was about defending Trump. But it wasn't so...yeah...there's that. ;)

Let me ask you a question...haven't you ever had someone stab you in the back? IE: Do something behind your back?

How many times do you think politicians in general get stabbed in the back? Never? Once a year? Twice a year? Multiple times a year?

People are not all knowing regardless if they're Joe Schmoe down the street or a world leader. In fact the higher a position you have in life the greater the odds of being stabbed in the back. Same goes for being rich.
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This thread is about Rudy admitting the campaign colluded but trump didn’t know one iota about it. Do you really believe trump hired all of these guys and had no idea what they were up to? He chose them for his campaign, after all. I find it hard to believe. I’m not saying trump should be all knowing, but it’s no defense to say this was occurring and then pretend trump got played and had no idea. He must have known something, hell, he was on national TV discussing when Hillary’s emails would come out. The facts point the other way and not in favor of trump’s ignorance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
apdst said:
Too bad for y'all that "collusion" isn't illegal.
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Thanks for talking point #507.

In response, collusion is a nick-name for conspiracy to defraud the United States; obstruction of justice; various computer related crimes; violation of 52 USC § 30121 -- campaign Finance Law Violations; Section 1001 of Title 18, Making False Statements, etc.
 
I just wish the mopes would start “colluding with the truth and reality!”


:shrug:
 
Every new disclosure reveals the past statements to be lies. And the Trump supporters are still obligated to believe. SMH
 
Kal'Stang said:
From their disclaimer section. So they're entirely opinion based. No facts to back them up.

....just saying.... :shrug:
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You have to read the whole thing.... they are clear that the news organization has high factual integrity. They questioned commentary and guests. That was my defense of CNN as not being credible, which was the charge.

The specific point, however, was the item I was citing was on a video which was included in my original link. The poster was merely being disingenuous in attacking my post merely because it was CNN. The post to which you are responding was to take her to task for being disingenuous, intellectually lazy and attempting to derail the thread.

No question that political analysts and guests on many of the news networks detract from the credibility of the network because these people are not fact checked or even called out on air. The underlying news organizations of CNN, NBC and to a lesser extent FOX, are top notch.
 
wellwisher said:
Collusion is not a crime. Remember when Obama collided on an open mike? He told the ambassador to tell Putin to be patient and that he would have more flexibility after he no longer had to lie, during the campaign. There was no charges brought since collusion is not a crime.

On the other hand, when the Putin and the Russians gave the Clintons $25 million as a donation to the foundation, after Obama and Hillary sold them uranium interests, even this was not pursued, by the left, as collusion being a crime. Maybe the magic number was $26 million, as the litmus test for criminal collusion that involves bribery.

Trump's attempt to build a casino hotel in Russia would have required Trump pay Putin, giving Trump leverage over Putin. The giver of the bribe is in the drivers seat. The receiver of the bribe, like Clinton owe the giver one or two. That is bribery 1.0.

Collusion is a political scam. Although is it not illegal, it is sold as illegal, by the spin factories of fake news. The goal is to impact public opinion for 2020. When Barr becomes AG, the true illegal colluders will be made visible. They were the ones that used KGB style tactics to spy on opposition candidate Trump. Using fake evidence to get a warrant is what Putin would have done in Russia. He may have instructed Obama to copy his KGB style. This was way worse than Nixon and will be traced back to the Obama administration. What did Putin have over Obama and Hillary ,that they would have employed KGB style tactics in the USA?

Remember Judge Kavanaugh and how the left sold the unAmerican concept of guilty until proven innocent. This is also KGB style. Putin is known to use this tactic to silence his opposition. Luckily, the Democrat colluders were not able to alter the American justice system in favor of Putin style.

If you were around during the Cold War, when Russia was the Soviet Union, the Soviets had a propaganda machine that would program its citizen with lopsided and fake news and propaganda. They would not give objective journalists accounts, or show both sides, but the propaganda machine would take one side and make it lopsided in favor of themselves. Fake news is using this soviet template more and more since Trump won. Putin appears to have his claws in the DNC.



One can see the Post Stalin influence on the left wing tactics. Anything against their agenda is attacked as racist, bigoted, sexist, homophobic all to silent logical opposition to the propaganda. If you are not a Trump hater, you should be attacked. If you don't accept LGBTQ you need to have your head examined since you have phobia and other mental defects. Putin has leverage over the left. Something bad happened!
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Collusion is the underlying act in the crime of conspiracy. There is no charge of collusion; but there is a charge of conspiracy, which many in the Trump team will face if they colluded with Russia with the intent of effecting the outcome of the 2016 election.

Your inclusion of what Obama said to Putin is a very, very weak, non-comparable whataboutism that is not worthy of any more comment than I make now. If you don't get the distinction, I suggest you do some research or start a thread on the subject so others can explain it to you.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a legal concept dealing with criminal trials, which each member of the Trump team charged with conspiracy will enjoy at trial. As with Kavanaugh or Trump, we have a higher standard for the office than they are merely not a criminal. People at that level that are charged with a crimes are usually no longer qualified to hold those offices. This is true even in high levels of business, sports and entertainment.

Impeachment is a political process which deals with such things. People like Presidents and Judges can be removed from office for reasons other than being guilty of crimes.
 
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PoliSciXtina said:
This thread is about Rudy admitting the campaign colluded but trump didn’t know one iota about it. Do you really believe trump hired all of these guys and had no idea what they were up to? He chose them for his campaign, after all. I find it hard to believe. I’m not saying trump should be all knowing, but it’s no defense to say this was occurring and then pretend trump got played and had no idea. He must have known something, hell, he was on national TV discussing when Hillary’s emails would come out. The facts point the other way and not in favor of trump’s ignorance.


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Just because you find it hard to believe doesn't mean that it can't happen. Everyone laughed their asses off at just the THOUGHT of Trump making it past the primaries. Then they laughed their asses off at the thought that Trump would become POTUS. "hard to believe" =/= impossible.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Well, you're welcome to your opinion. I'll just wait for Muellers report to decide. It's the responsible thing to do.
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Time will tell. As it almost always does.
 
PoliSciXtina said:
Awww poor trumpy, people are doing things behind his back!

Why does one continue to defend this asshat I’ll never know! It’s like he’s never accountable for anything and there’s always a blame or reason somewhere to get him off the hook. He’s the freaking POTUS, stop letting him off the hook. If he’s stupid enough to let his own campaign (and hire them) do dirty business with an adversary but he had no idea it was happening (yeah, right) admit that the dude is not fit to lead this great country. You can’t have it both ways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Do you have any idea how unpleasant it would he in their minds if they did admit it to themselves?

No more happy chemicals for following the Guy who promised them unicorns and rainbows (which he gave to a small percentage at the expense of thoae wwho believed him). And made liberals sad.

Followed by anxiety caused by not having someone to follow AND lack of confidence in their ability to choose one.

This basic, biological phenomenon is apparently how modern conservatism functions.

Addiction.
 
MTAtech said:
Thanks for talking point #507.

In response, collusion is a nick-name for conspiracy to defraud the United States; obstruction of justice; various computer related crimes; violation of 52 USC § 30121 -- campaign Finance Law Violations; Section 1001 of Title 18, Making False Statements, etc.
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Personally, I think the tax evasion and money laundering will take Trump down.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Well, you're welcome to your opinion. I'll just wait for Muellers report to decide. It's the responsible thing to do.
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Why is it responsible not to judge Trump now based on everything we know in the public record...his behavior, his own words, his own actions?
 
haymarket said:
Time will tell. As it almost always does.
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Question is...will you accept it if it doesn't go as you wish?

Me, I don't care either way on how it goes. I'm more interested in the reaction that either decision will generate.
 
Mach said:
Why is it responsible not to judge Trump now based on everything we know in the public record...his behavior, his own words, his own actions?
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Because that "public record" has been shaped by the news media to fit their own agenda's. I'll trust Mueller far more than I would the news media who has given up real journalism.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Because that "public record" has been shaped by the news media to fit their own agenda's. I'll trust Mueller far more than I would the news media who has given up real journalism.
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I think you're deceiving yourself Kal. Much of the public record is Trump's own words on Twitter, his own words in recorded speeches and press briefings, his staff briefing people directly.
And we also have a lot of court documentation you can read for yourself. Records you could verify beyond thew news, etc.

There is a mountain of evidence, and you appear to just want to defer judgement. I mean, that's your call, I'm just telling you given the situation today, I don't find it responsible based on the above.
 
Yes, because ole Rudy is such a good source of reliable, non-partisan, unbiased opion when it comes to his "client."
 
CaughtInThe said:
Part of Trump's problem (aside from not being very talented) is that he hires really dumb people.

If he had an expert staff around him (and real attorneys instead of people like Cohen and Giuliani) he wouldn't have half the problems he has. That's on Trump.
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Trump isn't going to have anyone in his circle that he perceives as more intelligent than he is.
 
MTAtech said:
Thanks for talking point #507.

In response, collusion is a nick-name for conspiracy to defraud the United States; obstruction of justice; various computer related crimes; violation of 52 USC § 30121 -- campaign Finance Law Violations; Section 1001 of Title 18, Making False Statements, etc.
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That's a fact, not a talking point.

And then, you post a law that has ZERO to do with "collusion", to prove your point. :lamo
 
MTAtech said:
A. Why is it more believable? Because it against their nature or interest. When the Pentagon says we don't need that weapons system, you have to believe them.
B. Wny is this coming out now? Because Michael Cohen is about to blow the lid off of this when he testifies before Congress.
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a. what? I'm talking about Guiliani
 
This is what Rudy is doing:
The Limited Hangout
A limited hangout or partial hangout is, according to former special assistant to the Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency Victor Marchetti, "spy jargon for a favorite and frequently used gimmick of the clandestine professionals. When their veil of secrecy is shredded and they can no longer rely on a phony cover story to misinform the public, they resort to admitting—sometimes even volunteering—some of the truth while still managing to withhold the key and damaging facts in the case. The public, however, is usually so intrigued by the new information that it never thinks to pursue the matter further."
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Kal'Stang said:
Just because you find it hard to believe doesn't mean that it can't happen. Everyone laughed their asses off at just the THOUGHT of Trump making it past the primaries. Then they laughed their asses off at the thought that Trump would become POTUS. "hard to believe" =/= impossible.
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So we're where I said no the ago.

Trump was just a useful idiot. Helping Putin with no idea he was doing so or benefitting himself.

Going down in history as such is more than enough punishment for trump.

And I'm not seeing how that doesn't happen now.

(It'll be another entry in the conservative history book. He'll be an abused hero who tried to save us or some such nonsense. But that's another issue.)
 
Kobie said:
You’re almost comically missing the point. It’s not that Rudy is to be believed, it’s that his narrative never stops changing.
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Ok. A changing narrative does not equal lying.
 
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