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Sen. Rand Paul going to Canada for hernia surgery

upsideguy said:
Though in the medical tourism industry, 10 Americans go elsewhere for every foreigner that comes here.

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(18)30620-X/fulltext

1.4 Million Americans Will Go Abroad for Medical Care This Year. Should You? | The Fiscal Times

Thanks Senator Paul for reminding us all that our healthcare is not all that great for a supposed 1st world country (most expensive with very subpar outcomes).
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Hmm... if 1.4M Americans will go abroad for medical this year care then 320M won't.
 
trixare4kids said:
OHIP fully covers the cost of examinations and procedures at Shouldice, but out-of-province health plans may not cover everything. ... In most hernia operations at public hospitals, patients are discharged on the same day, whereas Shouldice patients stay for three days. There are charges for semi-private rooms.

You're welcome.
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And public hospitals also charge extra for semi-private and private rooms...and health care is at the provincial level so might be different that what OHIP covers... You might want to leave off the saucy "you're welcome" until you actually know what you're talking about, it would be less awkward for both of us. Do you want to know the facts, or push an agenda? lol Nothing you've said negates anything I said.

Err...so, thanks? :lol:
 
OlNate said:
lmao...really? How do you think we get such a reputation for being polite? When you know you're better than everyone, it's easy to be chill... [emoji38]

(I'm totally joking with you right now, in case you're missing that - though our beer is better, that is not up for debate...lolz)
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I do enjoy a good Labatts.

Sent from my SM-T587P using Tapatalk
 
j-mac said:
I do enjoy a good Labatts.

Sent from my SM-T587P using Tapatalk
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My Man! I used to work for the company. Had you said Molson's, we'd be preparing for fisticuffs right now... :lol:
 
OlNate said:
And public hospitals also charge extra for semi-private and private rooms...and health care is at the provincial level so might be different that what OHIP covers... You might want to leave off the saucy "you're welcome" until you actually know what you're talking about, it would be less awkward for both of us. Do you want to know the facts, or push an agenda? lol Nothing you've said negates anything I said.

Err...so, thanks? :lol:
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If you are a Canadian having hernia surgery at that particular hospital, you are hearded on a communal ward and are kicked out of the hospital after one day or less.
What kind of great care is that?

Oh, and you're welcome.
 
OlNate said:
And public hospitals also charge extra for semi-private and private rooms...and health care is at the provincial level so might be different that what OHIP covers... You might want to leave off the saucy "you're welcome" until you actually know what you're talking about, it would be less awkward for both of us. Do you want to know the facts, or push an agenda? lol Nothing you've said negates anything I said.

Err...so, thanks? :lol:
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From what I've read, most surgeries are day surgeries, (in and out at your public hospitals; same day).
If one requires an extra stay they had better have additional private insurance or they pay for the semi-private/private out of their own pocket.

You're welcome.
 
trixare4kids said:
If you are a Canadian having hernia surgery at that particular hospital, you are hearded on a communal ward and are kicked out of the hospital after one day or less.
What kind of great care is that?

Oh, and you're welcome.
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It's perfectly fine...only an American would want a Cadillac when an Impala would do. Entitled much? My grandfather went through the procedure in a normal hospital a number of years ago, got home the next day, and was fine... :shrug:

Anyway...now you're pissy because you were talking out your ass and got corrected (you're welcome, lolz), and have become boring. Go on with your dead wrong self, and your moving goal posts. It is what it is.

Here's to Rand Paul's speedy recovery, we're glad we could help. :)
 
OlNate said:
It's perfectly fine...only an American would want a Cadillac when an Impala would do. Entitled much? My grandfather went through the procedure in a normal hospital a number of years ago, got home the next day, and was fine... :shrug:

Anyway...now you're pissy because you were talking out your ass and got corrected (you're welcome, lolz), and have become boring. Go on with your dead wrong self, and your moving goal posts. It is what it is.

Here's to Rand Paul's speedy recovery, we're glad we could help. :)
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You poor people stuck with a lousy healthcare system don't even get prescription drug care.

Back to point... I would imagine Rand Paul is going to a hernia specialty hospital because he will receive above board care and will gladly pay for it out of his own pocket.
Canada's public hospital system didn't make Shouldice Hospital a fantastic global care and surgical facility for hernia repair, the OWNERS of this PRIVATE hospital did.
 
OlNate said:
No patience required, bud, I live in Ontario, we're already there. :)

Don't let them tell you it's perfect, nothing is. But you don't hear many people up here wishing for anyone else's system, so I guess it's not too shabby. hehe
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Yeah, I doubt that many Canadians would trade us. Lose your job? No health insurance for you! Get hurt out of network? **** you, and pay up! Those are just a couple of the fun features of the US system.
 
trixare4kids said:
You poor people stuck with a lousy healthcare system don't even get prescription drug care.

Back to point... I would imagine Rand Paul is going to a hernia specialty hospital because he will receive above board care and will gladly pay for it out of his own pocket.
Canada's public hospital system didn't make Shouldice Hospital a fantastic global care and surgical facility for hernia repair, the OWNERS of this PRIVATE hospital did.
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lol...yes, dear. Canada sucks, America's the best. :lol: Cool if I have a snooze now? The capital letters indicate you're going on tilt, and while I'd normally enjoy that, I'm on some pretty heavy pain killers after yesterday's root canal, and my give a ****s are a bit low.

PS: Look up the Ontario Drug Benefit and Trillium Drug Plan if you want to speak from a place of actually knowing something. If you're not covered by your work benefits, you're still covered. I assume other provinces have similar initiatives...but not being from there I won't speak in absolutes, as I, unlike some others, try hard not to show my ass. :)
 
Helix said:
Yeah, I doubt that many Canadians would trade us. Lose your job? No health insurance for you! Get hurt out of network? **** you, and pay up! Those are just a couple of the fun features of the US system.
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Yeah...I mean...I personally know zero people who have gone bankrupt, or have wiped out their life savings, trying to stay alive. Or died because they couldn't afford a visit to the doctor. I have American friends who balk when I tell them I don't think about medical bills at all.

As I said above, it's not perfect, nothing is. But I'd still rather this than anything else out there, when everything is added up.
 
Carjosse said:
That would be a very hard thing to do considering those doctors are very specialized in a very specific surgery, using a very specific method, in a hospital that caters to the wealthy. Not to mention it would vary by province quite widely.

It is also worth noting that doctors in Canada have far less debt than their US counterparts, one of my roommates in my first year was a medical student and he said it is not abnormal for US medical students to have several million dollars of debt from their studies.
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it’s not uncommon for medical students to have 3-4 hundred thousand in debt but several million is a wild over statement,
 
OlNate said:
Mmm...not sure what you mean, bud... I'm not trying to tell you what to think. I'm just telling you how it is. :)

But if we were to tell you how to think, you ought to listen. Maple syrup and good beer make you smarter. ;)
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But your crappy ice tea and lack of ice in soft drinks make you dumber so it’s a wash.
 
OlNate said:
It's perfectly fine...only an American would want a Cadillac when an Impala would do. Entitled much? My grandfather went through the procedure in a normal hospital a number of years ago, got home the next day, and was fine... :shrug:

Anyway...now you're pissy because you were talking out your ass and got corrected (you're welcome, lolz), and have become boring. Go on with your dead wrong self, and your moving goal posts. It is what it is.

Here's to Rand Paul's speedy recovery, we're glad we could help. :)
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Want to guess which is larger . The number of Canadians having surgeries in the United States or the number of Americans having surgeries in Canada?
 
SLC said:
But your crappy ice tea and lack of ice in soft drinks make you dumber so it’s a wash.
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Err...our iced tea is the bomb, and we put ice in our drinks. Your stereotypes have been destroyed. Told ya we were smarter... :p :lol:
 
SLC said:
Want to guess which is larger . The number of Canadians having surgeries in the United States or the number of Americans having surgeries in Canada?
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I'd be interested to see the breakdown, for sure...and I wouldn't even be surprised that there are Canadians that go to the States for surgeries. Some of the best medical schools in the world are in the states, and no one is talking smack about your ability. As the most powerful nation in the world you should have some of the most advanced medical care available. Nothing controversial there...

Still prefer our system to yours. :) It's ok if you like yours better too... To each their own. :shrug: As I've said numerous times now, we're not perfect...no one is. But I'd rather have this than that....I've never in my life, going through personal illness, watching family members go through it, etc., have thought "this system sucks, and doesn't meet my needs, or the needs of those I love".
 
OlNate said:
lol...yes, dear. Canada sucks, America's the best. :lol: Cool if I have a snooze now? The capital letters indicate you're going on tilt, and while I'd normally enjoy that, I'm on some pretty heavy pain killers after yesterday's root canal, and my give a ****s are a bit low.

PS: Look up the Ontario Drug Benefit and Trillium Drug Plan if you want to speak from a place of actually knowing something. If you're not covered by your work benefits, you're still covered. I assume other provinces have similar initiatives...but not being from there I won't speak in absolutes, as I, unlike some others, try hard not to show my ass. :)
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You live in Canada, and if it's the best why do you busy yourself knocking the U.S?

One still has to pay for prescription drugs out of their own pocket unless they "qualify" for a something like Trillium or the OPDP... My point remains, nothing is free. You pay for all your "free care" via tax deductions.
How much are you taxed for an inferior HC system? Health care insurance is an added benefit perk, not a tax deduction in my country where you have to take out additional private insurance to get additional benefits like yours.
 
trixare4kids said:
You live in Canada, and if it's the best why do you busy yourself knocking the U.S?

One still has to pay for prescription drugs out of their own pocket unless they "qualify" for a something like Trillium or the OPDP... My point remains, nothing is free. You pay for all your "free care" via tax deductions.
How much are you taxed for an inferior HC system? Health care insurance is an added benefit perk, not a tax deduction in my country where you have to take out additional private insurance to get additional benefits like yours.
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Who's knocking the states? I mean, there are plenty of reasons to (as there is for any country, including Canada), I just didn't realize I did it here... :lol:

Anyway...it's very clear from what you're writing that you have little to no understanding of how things are in Canada, but are unwilling to let that stop you from making bold and broad statements...which means we've left the realm of discussion, and entered the realm of nonsense. I told you what to look up to help you with that, if you choose to, and should you attempt to demonstrate some actual knowledge in future responses, I'd be happy to continue. If all you want to do is talk smack about our health care system, so you can feel better about yours, you don't need me for that, you go on and have fun now. :)
 
OlNate said:
Who's knocking the states? I mean, there are plenty of reasons to (as there is for any country, including Canada), I just didn't realize I did it here... :lol:

Anyway...it's very clear from what you're writing that you have little to no understanding of how things are in Canada, but are unwilling to let that stop you from making bold and broad statements...which means we've left the realm of discussion, and entered the realm of nonsense. I told you what to look up to help you with that, if you choose to, and should you attempt to demonstrate some actual knowledge in future responses, I'd be happy to continue. If all you want to do is talk smack about our health care system, so you can feel better about yours, you don't need me for that, you go on and have fun now. :)
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IOW, you can't or won't refute what I wrote above.
What a wrote is factual.
Nothing is really free in Canada.

Hence, why so many Canadians come down to my country for life saving chemotherapy, and progressive prescription drugs not covered by Trillium and OPDP.
 
trixare4kids said:
IOW, you can't or won't refute what I wrote above.
What a wrote is factual.
Nothing is really free in Canada.

Hence, why so many Canadians come down to my country for life saving chemotherapy, and progressive prescription drugs not covered by Trillium and OPDP.
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Well, no, free is misleading...we pay taxes. Has anyone ever refuted that? How about: it's included in the cost of being Canadian. Whereas it's not included in the cost of being American. There you gotta pay extra to stay alive...tsk...poor you guys.

Re: Canadians coming to America for treatment. Consider the following:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/63-00...reatment-last-year-fraser-institute-1.3486635

Bear in mind, the Fraser Institute is very aligned with our right - I picked as conservative an organization as possible for you.

Now do a little bit of math. 63,000 Canadians is 0.175% of our population. Hold on, don't rush this part, let it sink in. You got it? Good.

Now, tell me we have a health care problem in Canada. :lol:

Sorry, friend, I know you really really really really really really really really really want to believe awful things about mean ol' Canada...this is all very inconvenient for you, I apologize. But most of us are just fine. 99.825%, to be exact. I wonder what America's "left behind" number looks like. Maybe, since it's your country, you could dig that up for me, seeing all the fact I found for you?
 
OlNate said:
Well, no, free is misleading...we pay taxes. Has anyone ever refuted that? How about: it's included in the cost of being Canadian. Whereas it's not included in the cost of being American. There you gotta pay extra to stay alive...tsk...poor you guys.

Re: Canadians coming to America for treatment. Consider the following:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/63-00...reatment-last-year-fraser-institute-1.3486635

Bear in mind, the Fraser Institute is very aligned with our right - I picked as conservative an organization as possible for you.

Now do a little bit of math. 63,000 Canadians is 0.175% of our population. Hold on, don't rush this part, let it sink in. You got it? Good.

Now, tell me we have a health care problem in Canada. :lol:

Sorry, friend, I know you really really really really really really really really really want to believe awful things about mean ol' Canada...this is all very inconvenient for you, I apologize. But most of us are just fine. 99.825%, to be exact. I wonder what America's "left behind" number looks like. Maybe, since it's your country, you could dig that up for me, seeing all the fact I found for you?
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Sorry to have to say this but everything I know about Canada's public option healthcare system, including a gross lack of providers/physicians, ridiculously long wait times, and inefficient drug benefits/chemotherapy leaves me no other choice.... Honest I am.
 
trixare4kids said:
Sorry to have to say this but everything I know about Canada's public option healthcare system, including a gross lack of providers/physicians, ridiculously long wait times, and inefficient drug benefits/chemotherapy leaves me no other choice.... Honest I am.
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Nah...you just think you know things you don't. :) You take the worst stories, and use them to generalize. I'm Canadian, my family has had as many health issues as any other, and I can tell you that while some things were frustrating, most things were not, and those that were can't be blamed on the system, but individual doctors.

For example, my father's partner went to a doctor for years...old fella, kinda tired and bored. He switched doctors and found out, because the new doctor actually ordered the tests he asked for, that he had prostate cancer, and that it had been there for years (thankfully it hasn't spread, so is very manageable). He discovered this in mid December, just before Christmas. His testing has been done, he's been in the hospital every other day looking at something, and he'll have his operation before the end of the month.

Did the system fail him? No. The doctor did. The system is working awesome.

I never said it was perfect. I just said it was preferable.

But anyway...lol...have we been too mean to each other to say I have thoroughly enjoyed talking to you again? It's been a while. I've missed ya! :)
 
Carjosse said:
It is worth pointing out that he is going to one of the very few private hospitals in the province that existed before the introduction of single-payer. As the name suggests it is a very small hospital that specializes very specifically in hernia surgeries.
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It might surprise you to know that Shouldice participates in the Ontario Health Insurance Plan. The fact that it is privately OWNED has absolutely nothing whatsoever to to with who actually pays the patient's bills.

BTW, one of the hospitals that I was referring to earlier is Kingston General Hospital (which is NOT "privately owned"), another is St. Joseph's Hospital (Hamilton) which WAS "privately owned" until the hospital owners sold it to the Ontario government, and another was McKeller General Hospital in Thunder Bay (which, also, was NOT "privately owned").

Carjosse said:
But just in case you think that just proves your point that single-payer is ineffective, it doesn't Canada's public hospitals and universities are still leaders and innovators in many kinds of treatments.
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Two minor points, I never said that "single-payer" was ineffective - mainly because it isn't. The US could provide at least the same level (QUALITY + % of population COVERED) of health care insurance (on a single-payer basis) that Canada provides for roughly 2/3rds [or less] than it now spends to provide the same QUALITY of health care with a SMALLER percentage of its population COVERED).

Quite frankly I am a MUCH bigger fan of "Single Payer - Multiple Provider" (ref - the Canadian doctors) programs than I am of "Single Payer - Single Provider" programs (ref - [almost all] Canadian hospitals).
 
j-mac said:
According to the report, people come from "around the world" to have this surgery here....what's the beef?

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I think that "the beef" is that Shouldice would have folded long ago if it had not been for the funding provided by that left-wing, liberal, socialist, pinko, commie so-called "Single Payer" **S*O*C*I*A*L*I*S*T** so-called "universal" medical insurance program.
 
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