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[W:492] F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Athanasius68 said:
It means that guys like Manafort and Flynn pled guilty to perjury WITHOUT pleading guilty to their role in some sort of conspiracy between Trump campaign and Russia.
It means if Mueller comes back and makes the claim, he has to PROVE the case against them as well as others in the conspiracy. And those guys are convicted perjurers, not the best witnesses for a conspiracy one would think.
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Do you realize that the goal of this inquiry and investigation is to get those who are at the highest levels responsible for it?

And do you realize that the time honored method to get the big fish is to first get the little ones and get them to give in formation about the big fish?

And do you realize the crime that the little fish are charged with or plead guilty is immaterial since all it is is a means to a greater end?

And do you realize that if it is perjury or anything else, if it gets the prosecutors the needed information, that is all that counts for them?

And do you realize in an ongoing criminal conspiracy that if it results in a trial and witnesses are needed, the normal who testify about the inner workings of that criminal enterprise are the very people who participated in it and are by nature criminals and perjurers?

I suspect strongly that you do intellectually know these things because you have been around and are educated.

So the only question that remains is why you pretend otherwise when you yourself know better?
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Fletch said:
So you are familiar with Watergate, great. Do you know that from break in to resignation was just over 2 years? Hunt and Liddy were indicted one year after the break in and there were numerous guilty pleas within months. There was an actual crime in watergate and an actual conspiracy that began unfolding fairly quickly. We knew the crime and the conspirators. With Trump we know exactly nothing and no one has been indicted or charged with anything. So stop pretending you know what the hell you are talking about.
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And do you for a hot second want the world to believe that 2 years is some sort of time limit? It sure was not in Benghazi investigations and I do nto remember you screaming about the length of time that took even if it failed to bear nay fruit.

In Watergate we knew the crime from day one. The crime in the Russian/Trump conspiracy had to be uncovered and peeled back like the layers of a very thick onion so it takes time.

And we know Trump did illegal things since we all have the public record of his public invitation to Russia to provide illegal help to his campaign and we know the Russians did provide illegal help to his campaign.

But lets not fool each other here Fletch. You know all this. You know this as well as I do. But you persist in this dishonest line of argument just the same for your own idealogical reasons.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Athanasius68 said:
They didn't charge him with anything relating to collusion. They are not going back and starting from scratch.
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Speaking of scratch Manafort who was the first of 'em indicted is not a guy to try to defend unless there's a big professional fee involved. Manafort was found guilty of "Conspiracy Against the United States." It was a prosecutor's piece of cake. Manafort was guilty of so many crimes the special counsel's office blew right through collusion like nobody's business.

So we've gone naturally from collusion to conspiracy to obstruction and now to Trump being Putin's lapdog. Collusion has for a long time now been an afterthought at best. The only significance of collusion is that it is the entree to indictable crimes that are a prosecutor's cakewalk in court. One suspects also Trump's tax records will lead to a huge return for the SC and the US House.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

haymarket said:
Do you realize that the goal of this inquiry and investigation is to get those who are at the highest levels responsible for it?

And do you realize that the time honored method to get the big fish is to first get the little ones and get them to give in formation about the big fish?

And do you realize the crime that the little fish are charged with or plead guilty is immaterial since all it is is a means to a greater end?

And do you realize that if it is perjury or anything else, if it gets the prosecutors the needed information, that is all that counts for them?

And do you realize in an ongoing criminal conspiracy that if it results in a trial and witnesses are needed, the normal who testify about the inner workings of that criminal enterprise are the very people who participated in it and are by nature criminals and perjurers?

I suspect strongly that you do intellectually know these things because you have been around and are educated.

So the only question that remains is why you pretend otherwise when you yourself know better?
Click to expand...

Just last month, The SDNY had Cohen & Pecker plead guilty to a conspiracy involving Federal election law. They described their role in it and stated the role of the famous Individual-1 in the conspiracy. Everyone pretty much agrees that Individual-1 is the same Mr. Trump who was elected president and who supposedly conspired with Russia in doing so.
Yet the SDNY got the "little fish" to confess to their role. They have established that a conspiracy existed for violating election law. If they choose prosecute Trump for his alleged role in it, they start from a much stronger position.

Mueller has NEVER established a conspiracy between Russia and the Trump campaign. Even though he has had more than an opportunity to do so-- IF SUCH A CONSPIRACY EXISTED. Instead the claim seems to be he will wait and try to establish a conspiracy with a bunch of perjurers as his witnesses. It makes no sense.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

haymarket said:
In Watergate we knew the crime from day one. The crime in the Russian/Trump conspiracy had to be uncovered and peeled back like the layers of a very thick onion so it takes time.
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Lol. And after 2 years of 'peeling back this onion' what crime has been exposed?

And we know Trump did illegal things since we all have the public record of his public invitation to Russia to provide illegal help to his campaign and we know the Russians did provide illegal help to his campaign.
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What criminal statute did that violate and why has he not been charged. He did it in public. Whats the delay?

But lets not fool each other here Fletch. You know all this. You know this as well as I do. But you persist in this dishonest line of argument just the same for your own idealogical reasons.
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Dude, I dont agree with you on any of this garbage. Facts are stubborn things but you are more stubborn than they. Not one person in Trumps orbit has been charged with any crime related to Russia and the 2016 election. NOt one. When you get one, let me know.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Athanasius68 said:
Just last month, The SDNY had Cohen & Pecker plead guilty to a conspiracy involving Federal election law. They described their role in it and stated the role of the famous Individual-1 in the conspiracy. Everyone pretty much agrees that Individual-1 is the same Mr. Trump who was elected president and who supposedly conspired with Russia in doing so.
Yet the SDNY got the "little fish" to confess to their role. They have established that a conspiracy existed for violating election law. If they choose prosecute Trump for his alleged role in it, they start from a much stronger position.

Mueller has NEVER established a conspiracy between Russia and the Trump campaign. Even though he has had more than an opportunity to do so-- IF SUCH A CONSPIRACY EXISTED. Instead the claim seems to be he will wait and try to establish a conspiracy with a bunch of perjurers as his witnesses. It makes no sense.
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You obviously do not understand that proof of crimes comes AFTER the completion of an investigation

Why do you participate in a discussion of a subject you do not understand, if it is not to obfuscate and lie?
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Tangmo said:
Speaking of scratch Manafort who was the first of 'em indicted is not a guy to try to defend unless there's a big professional fee involved. Manafort was found guilty of "Conspiracy Against the United States." It was a prosecutor's piece of cake. Manafort was guilty of so many crimes the special counsel's office blew right through collusion like nobody's business.
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And none of it has anything to do with his role in conspiring with Russia to throw the election.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Fletch said:
Lol. And after 2 years of 'peeling back this onion' what crime has been exposed?
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Conspiracy against the United States.

And please note that Russia was involved in that conspiracy.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

sangha said:
Conspiracy against the United States.

And please note that Russia was involved in that conspiracy.
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Fletch is being deliberately obtuse. Then he continues to be so over many comments on the thread, until you realize his threads are just trolling. He marginalized himself to the point to where you can't have an honest or intelligent discussion.

The more we find out about Trump, the more amazing it is that there is anyone left beyond the cultists that can support him.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

sangha said:
You obviously do not understand that proof of crimes comes AFTER the completion of an investigation

Why do you participate in a discussion of a subject you do not understand, if it is not to obfuscate and lie?
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So now the claim is that Mueller spent the last two years time investigating Manafort for crimes that had nothing to do with whether he was part of a conspiracy with Russia? That Mueller thought the best way to prove the claim is to first establish that he is a liar? I mean, give us a break.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Fletch said:
Im sorry, what was my lie? And why did you bother to respond yet completely ignore the substance of my post?
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"the FBI and a special council with unlimited power and resources have, after more than two years of investigation, failed to come up with any evidence that Trump is doing this?"

The news that came out last evening is clear evidence that the FBI counterintelligence has enough 'proof' and yes seeing is believing as 'truth' that Trump has been an operative of the Russian Federation. Your attempts at diminishing the sheer horror of this collusion with Russia by a seated U.S. president is absolutely horrifying. I'm over being stunned at the aggressive and vehement support of the right for a man that has sold out this country, OUR country, the one many thousands of men and women have given their lives for. All you can do is look for ways out and excuses for this man? This is by no means okay with anyone that gives a damn about our republic and freedom.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

beefheart said:
Fletch is being deliberately obtuse. Then he continues to be so over many comments on the thread, until you realize his threads are just trolling. He marginalized himself to the point to where you can't have an honest or intelligent discussion.

The more we find out about Trump, the more amazing it is that there is anyone left beyond the cultists that can support him.
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If you have the ability to refute a single thing I have written in this thread, please do so. Otherwise, the one trolling here is you.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

HumblePi said:
"the FBI and a special council with unlimited power and resources have, after more than two years of investigation, failed to come up with any evidence that Trump is doing this?"

The news that came out last evening is clear evidence that the FBI counterintelligence has enough 'proof' and yes seeing is believing as 'truth' that Trump has been an operative of the Russian Federation. Your attempts at diminishing the sheer horror of this collusion with Russia by a seated U.S. president is absolutely horrifying. I'm over being stunned at the aggressive and vehement support of the right for a man that has sold out this country, OUR country, the one many thousands of men and women have given their lives for. All you can do is look for ways out and excuses for this man? This is by no means okay with anyone that gives a damn about our republic and freedom.
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And what is this 'proof?'
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

holbritter said:
If they have evidence Trump is a Russian asset, are you ok with 'we'll find out soon enough'? You guys aren't taking this serious enough. Forget about scoring points for being right, or I told you so. If what you are saying is true, they would, and should, goose step him right out of the White House. What you don't do, is continue to give him access to the top office in the US.

Which leads me to believe they do not have evidence of him being a Russian asset.
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"not taking this seriously enough" ? Are you kidding me? Trust me, we are taking the destruction of our country VERY seriously. Who are the ones that are digging deeply for any excuse they can for this son of a bitch traitor? Who are the ones dreaming up conspiracies about a 'deep state' and 'invasions' in order to support this puppet of Russia?

This man is so dirty along with his dirty family of traitors. Even his son in law Kushner who tried very hard to get a 'back channel' with Russians that would be ENCRYPTED and far from the peering eyes and ears of the FBI. Are you all blind and deaf too?

WINTER IS HERE And yes, WE WILL FIND OUT SOON ENOUGH that he is indeed a Russian operative.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

sangha said:
And neither does this investigation
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And as I said earlier, the NY TIMES article said the investigation commenced because the FBI was concerned about Trump's behavior in office. Such behavior was not specified.
But as it was public behavior, people can't hide behind the. 'nobody knows what mueller' has when flaws erupt in their argument.
So what was the concern? Thus far only one person has bothered to think about it, and the answer was a comment during the campaign.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Fletch said:
If you have the ability to refute a single thing I have written in this thread, please do so. Otherwise, the one trolling here is you.
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Same old MO.

Your posts aren't worthy of any debate anymore. Same old thing every time, no amount of evidence or testimony will ever be enough. That is why you can't be considered as a serious poster here.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Fletch said:
And what is this 'proof?'
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I'm going to take all your fun away very easily now because all you are is a useful puppet for Trump, so I'm simply going to block you. Bye Fletch, enjoy your life.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Fletch said:
I dont believe it. You believe it for the same reasons people believe that the Twin Towers were brought down by pre-placed explosives => :cuckoo:
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That is not the issue here and you know it. It is intellectually dishonest for you to try and move the goals posts like you just did. Shame on you.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

holbritter said:
If they have evidence Trump is a Russian asset, are you ok with 'we'll find out soon enough'? You guys aren't taking this serious enough. Forget about scoring points for being right, or I told you so. If what you are saying is true, they would, and should, goose step him right out of the White House. What you don't do, is continue to give him access to the top office in the US.

Which leads me to believe they do not have evidence of him being a Russian asset.
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Do you believe that's he's working for the American people and not, in fact, on behalf of certain powers in Russia?
 
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Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

beefheart said:
Fletch is being deliberately obtuse. Then he continues to be so over many comments on the thread, until you realize his threads are just trolling. He marginalized himself to the point to where you can't have an honest or intelligent discussion.

The more we find out about Trump, the more amazing it is that there is anyone left beyond the cultists that can support him.
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Yes, I know and I generally do not respond to any of his posts. However, since the answer to his question directly contradicts Trumps claims of no collusion, I felt it was worthwhile to respond
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

beefheart said:
Same old MO.

Your posts aren't worthy of any debate anymore. Same old thing every time, no amount of evidence or testimony will ever be enough. That is why you can't be considered as a serious poster here.
Click to expand...

So you cant refute a single word. Thats what I thought. Take your trolling elsewhere.
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Athanasius68 said:
Just last month, The SDNY had Cohen & Pecker plead guilty to a conspiracy involving Federal election law. They described their role in it and stated the role of the famous Individual-1 in the conspiracy. Everyone pretty much agrees that Individual-1 is the same Mr. Trump who was elected president and who supposedly conspired with Russia in doing so.
Yet the SDNY got the "little fish" to confess to their role. They have established that a conspiracy existed for violating election law. If they choose prosecute Trump for his alleged role in it, they start from a much stronger position.

Mueller has NEVER established a conspiracy between Russia and the Trump campaign. Even though he has had more than an opportunity to do so-- IF SUCH A CONSPIRACY EXISTED. Instead the claim seems to be he will wait and try to establish a conspiracy with a bunch of perjurers as his witnesses. It makes no sense.
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Are you in the habit of declaring the winner of a baseball game in the early innings?

You and I and every thinking person knows that the major indictments will come at the very end as they will cause Trump to melt down and possibly fire Mueller and end the investigation to show his anger. You know that.

So why the dishonest attempt to pretend that because this not happened yet that it likely will not happen?
 
Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

Athanasius68 said:
So now the claim is that Mueller spent the last two years time investigating Manafort for crimes that had nothing to do with whether he was part of a conspiracy with Russia? That Mueller thought the best way to prove the claim is to first establish that he is a liar? I mean, give us a break.
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Manafort IS guilty of a conspiracy that involves Russia
 
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