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Thread: [W:492] F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

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    Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    "Unwittingly?" I don't know that I'd go that far.
    I don't think he cared. All he could think about was how much money he stood to gain and how much pay to play there was in the presidency.
    Sarcasm is the body’s natural defense against stupidity

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    Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    Double post - oops
    Sarcasm is the body’s natural defense against stupidity

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    Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Would a U.S. president who had any sort of awareness of how he had fallen under Moscow's influence openly profess to have more faith in Putin than in U.S. intelligence agencies? Someone with awareness would know he should not publicly share that belief.

    He's sublimely naive.

    I think FreedomFromAll had it correct here:




    Trump thinks he can stand toe to toe with the big boys and give as good as he gets. And the big boys stroke him and keep him believing that that's how they see the situation -- one of mutual respect between worthy adversaries. He's utterly clueless about how he is being played.

    ... or so it appears to me.
    Red:
    A POTUS with Trump's hubris and who knows he's in cahoots with an adversary damn sure would.
    • Look at how monarchical he's been throughout his presidency.
    • Look at how he's directed his rhetoric toward pandering to his base rather than to the country as a whole. His base of conspiracy theorizing and anti-establishment buffoons is large enough to afford him political endurance and let him get away with the BS we've been seeing for three years now.
    • Look at how he's repeatedly attacked the major institutions and bulwarks of our democracy -- the press, the DoJ, the FBI, the intelligence community, the military, and our allies -- yet availed his position to sow seeds of socio-political discord to tear it down.
    • Look at how many people having no subject matter gravitas he's appointed to positions of power.
    • Look at how solicitous Trump's been toward Putin, KJU and Erdogan, despotic strongmen each. And why has Trump met in secret with Putin and KJU? Hell, why did he meet at all with KJU, thus giving that guy stature he otherwise would never have obtained?
    • Consider the odd secrecy Trump has maintained about pretty much everything pertaining to his affairs. When has so much ever been secret
    • Look at all professionals and experts whose input he's rejected and of whom he's declared he knows more than they: generals, mainstream economists, academics, and diplomats.
    • Look at Trump's insistence that his finances are off limits.
    • What have we been hearing and seeing for the past few weeks?
      • Trump's truculence regarding funding major units of the US government, including the DHS, and for what? A frigging wall for which there's absolutely no business case for installing. A wall that he didn't bother to get funded when his party controlled both chambers of Congress, but is now the lynchpin to whether essential units of the government is funded.
      • Is it coincidental that the NYT's article about the FBI investigating whether Trump is a Russian asset appeared literally hours after Trump backed down, somewhat, from his threat to declare extant a fictitious national emergency? I ask because a POTUS obtains vast powers to circumvent Congressional an other oversight units of the government.

    • A POTUS is the one person who obtains access to all of America's security "secrets" and who doesn't undergo a background check.

    A POTUS is the one person whose bizarre behavior and remarks, particularly if they have a material degree of popular support, can be gotten away with and framed as politics rather than insurgency.


    So now we know the FBI opened an investigation into whether Trump has been acting as a Russian asset. The verb tenses discussants have used, deferentially, imply the investigation to that effect happened and ended, concluding that Trump wasn't. Is that what the FBI concluded? Is the inquiry to that effect indeed over? I don't know. The FBI hasn't commented. Nobody on any Congressional intelligence committee has commented on the matter. We still don't know who that mystery firm is that tried to disregard a subpoena. We have yet to learn what matter pertained to all the redactions in the Flynn sentencing documents. Did the redactions pertain to the counterintelligence inquiry into Trump?
    Those who jettison the epistemological standards of science are no longer in a position to use their intellectual product to make any claims about what is true of the world or to dispute the others’ claims about what is true. - Tooby & Cosmides
    The lion does not turn around when a small dog barks. -- African Proverb

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    Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Given that he has repeatedly worked in a manner consistent with an asset, it is not surprising. Still, the chief law enforcement agency in America opened a counterintelligence investigation into the President whom they worried was betraying America.


    Just stop and think about how incredible that concept is.
    Which they would not have done had they not concluded that his actions were specifically putting a foreign country’s well being over his own.

    “Big takeaway: The FBI opens a counterintelligence investigation on the President of the United States if it has a reason to believe that his actions are putting the interests of a foreign country over those of our own.”
    -Asha Rangappa, former FBI agent

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    Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    It seems that the FBI opened up an investigation into Donald Trump and possible collusion with Russia out of concerns that this could be a security concern for the U.S.

    F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/us/politics/fbi-trump-russia-inquiry.html

    Following President Trump’s firing of James B. Comey as F.B.I. director, the bureau grew increasingly concerned about whether the president’s actions constituted anti-American activity.CreditSarah Silbiger/The New York Times

    WASHINGTON — In the days after President Trump fired James B. Comey as F.B.I. director, law enforcement officials became so concerned by the president’s behavior that they began investigating whether he had been working on behalf of Russia against American interests, according to former law enforcement officials and others familiar with the investigation.

    The inquiry carried explosive implications. Counterintelligence investigators had to consider whether the president’s own actions constituted a possible threat to national security. Agents also sought to determine whether Mr. Trump was knowingly working for Russia or had unwittingly fallen under Moscow’s influence.

    The investigation the F.B.I. opened into Mr. Trump also had a criminal aspect, which has long been publicly known: whether his firing of Mr. Comey constituted obstruction of justice.
    Wait, are the kids still crying about Comey being fired? Even though it's already been shown that there was no wrong doing when he did so?
    Well, that's the desperation of left and to an extent, this who idiotic "resist" group as well.

    I'll be here waiting to see if they can actually prove anything this time around. Though I'm not going to hold my breath on this one either.
    “…it is easier for a 12- or 13-year-old to purchase a gun, and cheaper, than it is for them to get a book.” – Barack Obama

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    Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Wait, are the kids still crying about Comey being fired? Even though it's already been shown that there was no wrong doing when he did so?
    Well, that's the desperation of left and to an extent, this who idiotic "resist" group as well.

    I'll be here waiting to see if they can actually prove anything this time around. Though I'm not going to hold my breath on this one either.
    No wrong doing by who? You need to be more specific.

  7. #27
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    Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    Red:
    A POTUS with Trump's hubris and who knows he's in cahoots with an adversary damn sure would.
    • Look at how monarchical he's been throughout his presidency.
    • Look at how he's directed his rhetoric toward pandering to his base rather than to the country as a whole. His base of conspiracy theorizing and anti-establishment buffoons is large enough to afford him political endurance and let him get away with the BS we've been seeing for three years now.
    • Look at how he's repeatedly attacked the major institutions and bulwarks of our democracy -- the press, the DoJ, the FBI, the intelligence community, the military, and our allies -- yet availed his position to sow seeds of socio-political discord to tear it down.
    • Look at how many people having no subject matter gravitas he's appointed to positions of power.
    • Look at how solicitous Trump's been toward Putin, KJU and Erdogan, despotic strongmen each. And why has Trump met in secret with Putin and KJU? Hell, why did he meet at all with KJU, thus giving that guy stature he otherwise would never have obtained?
    • Consider the odd secrecy Trump has maintained about pretty much everything pertaining to his affairs. When has so much ever been secret
    • Look at all professionals and experts whose input he's rejected and of whom he's declared he knows more than they: generals, mainstream economists, academics, and diplomats.
    • Look at Trump's insistence that his finances are off limits.
    • What have we been hearing and seeing for the past few weeks?
      • Trump's truculence regarding funding major units of the US government, including the DHS, and for what? A frigging wall for which there's absolutely no business case for installing. A wall that he didn't bother to get funded when his party controlled both chambers of Congress, but is now the lynchpin to whether essential units of the government is funded.
      • Is it coincidental that the NYT's article about the FBI investigating whether Trump is a Russian asset appeared literally hours after Trump backed down, somewhat, from his threat to declare extant a fictitious national emergency? I ask because a POTUS obtains vast powers to circumvent Congressional an other oversight units of the government.

    • A POTUS is the one person who obtains access to all of America's security "secrets" and who doesn't undergo a background check.

    A POTUS is the one person whose bizarre behavior and remarks, particularly if they have a material degree of popular support, can be gotten away with and framed as politics rather than insurgency.


    So now we know the FBI opened an investigation into whether Trump has been acting as a Russian asset. The verb tenses discussants have used, deferentially, imply the investigation to that effect happened and ended, concluding that Trump wasn't. Is that what the FBI concluded? Is the inquiry to that effect indeed over? I don't know. The FBI hasn't commented. Nobody on any Congressional intelligence committee has commented on the matter. We still don't know who that mystery firm is that tried to disregard a subpoena. We have yet to learn what matter pertained to all the redactions in the Flynn sentencing documents. Did the redactions pertain to the counterintelligence inquiry into Trump?

    I would invoke Occam's razor here. You attribute much more Machiavellianism to Trump than I do.

    I think developmentally he's just a big two-year-old. Now. Mine. No. Waaahhhh. For me, those basic responses explain most of his behavior. Including why he responds most favorably to dictators who can butter him up to his heart's content without having to worry about laws and democratic obligations that leaders such as Macron and Trudeau need to worry about.

    The one thing in your list which perked my ears up was, "Look at Trump's insistence that his finances are off limits." Yeah, he might be hiding something there. And there could be some Russian connection he doesn't want revealed. Or it could be how little tax he has paid. Or what kinds of frivolous write-offs he has made. Or how much he has paid himself. Or some kind of criminal behavior he has done in America. Lots of reasons for a shady, careless, impulsive person like Trump to not want his dirty financial laundry hung out to dry where his Bible Belt, belt-tightening base will see what's in it.

  8. #28
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    Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelor View Post
    Red:
    A POTUS with Trump's hubris and who knows he's in cahoots with an adversary damn sure would.
    • Look at how monarchical he's been throughout his presidency.
    • Look at how he's directed his rhetoric toward pandering to his base rather than to the country as a whole. His base of conspiracy theorizing and anti-establishment buffoons is large enough to afford him political endurance and let him get away with the BS we've been seeing for three years now.
    • Look at how he's repeatedly attacked the major institutions and bulwarks of our democracy -- the press, the DoJ, the FBI, the intelligence community, the military, and our allies -- yet availed his position to sow seeds of socio-political discord to tear it down.
    • Look at how many people having no subject matter gravitas he's appointed to positions of power.
    • Look at how solicitous Trump's been toward Putin, KJU and Erdogan, despotic strongmen each. And why has Trump met in secret with Putin and KJU? Hell, why did he meet at all with KJU, thus giving that guy stature he otherwise would never have obtained?
    • Consider the odd secrecy Trump has maintained about pretty much everything pertaining to his affairs. When has so much ever been secret
    • Look at all professionals and experts whose input he's rejected and of whom he's declared he knows more than they: generals, mainstream economists, academics, and diplomats.
    • Look at Trump's insistence that his finances are off limits.
    • What have we been hearing and seeing for the past few weeks?
      • Trump's truculence regarding funding major units of the US government, including the DHS, and for what? A frigging wall for which there's absolutely no business case for installing. A wall that he didn't bother to get funded when his party controlled both chambers of Congress, but is now the lynchpin to whether essential units of the government is funded.
      • Is it coincidental that the NYT's article about the FBI investigating whether Trump is a Russian asset appeared literally hours after Trump backed down, somewhat, from his threat to declare extant a fictitious national emergency? I ask because a POTUS obtains vast powers to circumvent Congressional an other oversight units of the government.

    • A POTUS is the one person who obtains access to all of America's security "secrets" and who doesn't undergo a background check.

    A POTUS is the one person whose bizarre behavior and remarks, particularly if they have a material degree of popular support, can be gotten away with and framed as politics rather than insurgency.


    So now we know the FBI opened an investigation into whether Trump has been acting as a Russian asset. The verb tenses discussants have used, deferentially, imply the investigation to that effect happened and ended, concluding that Trump wasn't. Is that what the FBI concluded? Is the inquiry to that effect indeed over? I don't know. The FBI hasn't commented. Nobody on any Congressional intelligence committee has commented on the matter. We still don't know who that mystery firm is that tried to disregard a subpoena. We have yet to learn what matter pertained to all the redactions in the Flynn sentencing documents. Did the redactions pertain to the counterintelligence inquiry into Trump?
    Maybe I missed it in the flurry of words but, while your post does make the case that Trump is being directed by the Russians, it does not explain why he would openly state that he trusted putin more than the US intelligence agencies
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't have any issue with any investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #29
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    Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    I would invoke Occam's razor here. You attribute much more Machiavellianism to Trump than I do.

    I think developmentally he's just a big two-year-old. Now. Mine. No. Waaahhhh. For me, those basic responses explain most of his behavior. Including why he responds most favorably to dictators who can butter him up to his heart's content without having to worry about laws and democratic obligations that leaders such as Macron and Trudeau need to worry about.

    The one thing in your list which perked my ears up was, "Look at Trump's insistence that his finances are off limits." Yeah, he might be hiding something there. And there could be some Russian connection he doesn't want revealed. Or it could be how little tax he has paid. Or what kinds of frivolous write-offs he has made. Or how much he has paid himself. Or some kind of criminal behavior he has done in America. Lots of reasons for a shady, careless, impulsive person like Trump to not want his dirty financial laundry hung out to dry where his Bible Belt, belt-tightening base will see what's in it.
    Let me be clear: to the extent what's afoot is indeed the stuff of spies, operatives, agents, feints, etc., it's very hard to know what is so and what's come to light as part of some sort of misinformation undertaking. One thing's certain, the whole world of intelligence/counterintelligence is about lies, deceits and half-truths.


    Red:
    The notion that Trump would be handled literally like a child -- instructed at a detailed level and in a "step one, step two, step three" way is beyond reason. Thus my simple razor is that Trump has been Putin's puppet, or more accurately, a Putin's executive officer or factotum. As the latter, I find it plausible that Trump has been given outcomes he's expected to achieve, but he has broad discretion about how he effects their fruition. That is essentially the way things work between, say, a CEO and his/her top lieutenants in a firm. It's also, generally, how a POTUS directs the actions of his various agency heads and departmental secretaries.

    Trump, if he's an asset of Putin's, would have been given very high level goals, goals only a POTUS with entrenched political support a bully pulpit and the world's largest "megaphone" can achieve:
    • Foment social discord.
    • Present Russia and Putin in favorable lights; don't cast Russia as an adversary.
    • Get out of Syria.
    • Denigrate pillars of democracy.
    • Use your presidential authority and political popularity to foment distrust of, stifle and discredit the USIC.
    • Do not lose the support of your political base; use that support to suppress opposition from within your party.
    • Oppose and incite animus toward the US among its allies.
    • Occasionally, he may have been given specific instructions: insist on meeting completely alone with Putin; get Putin re-invited to the G8.

    Do I think Trump may have conjured the strategy for which the above examples are high level tactics? Do I think Trump has any idea of how those tactics abet the realization of a larger strategy? Hell, no! On both counts.

    As such, the "Prince-like" quality you see in my remarks derives not from Trump's conjuration. Moreover, it looks Machiavellian because one predicates Trump's comportment and rhetoric being wholly of his own volition. The instant one disabuses oneself of the assumption that Trump's actions are independently conceived, Trump doesn't look so contrived.

    I know the postulate of Trump being Putin's "boy" makes a whole lot of things, most especially the more astounding things Trump's said/done, comprehensible, particularly given Trump's outsized ego.
    • Might the Russians have had "dirt" on Trump well before he commenced his campaign? Sure. Trump's not ever been an "alter boy" of sorts.
    • Might the "dirt" been of no great value until Trump opted to run for POTUS? Absolutely.
      • Having such "dirt," notwithstanding Hillary's strained relationship with Putin, that Russia would back Trump was a no-brainer for them.
    • Could it be that Trump's outlandish assertions, initiatives and claims were proffered by him in recognition of his being compromised and his thinking that if he was ridiculous enough, nobody would actually buy into them and elect him? Given the reporting that Trump never expected to win the election, it's possible.



    Blue:
    That he does come off that way is why I don't at all see him as the architect, the chess master behind the imprudent and ill-considered stuff he's been saying and doing.
    Those who jettison the epistemological standards of science are no longer in a position to use their intellectual product to make any claims about what is true of the world or to dispute the others’ claims about what is true. - Tooby & Cosmides
    The lion does not turn around when a small dog barks. -- African Proverb

  10. #30
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    Re: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Maybe I missed it in the flurry of words but, while your post does make the case that Trump is being directed by the Russians, it does not explain why he would openly state that he trusted putin more than the US intelligence agencies
    Red:
    You didn't miss it. I didn't outline a strategy that Russia would have applied in exploiting its upper-hand over Trump. (See post 29 for rough outline of such a strategy.)

    That's straightforward enough: he was told to do so, and he followed directions. That's what hubristic folks who've been compromised, and who think the nature of their compromise won't be discovered, do. There wouldn't have been many things he was expressly told to do, but that would have been one such thing.
    Those who jettison the epistemological standards of science are no longer in a position to use their intellectual product to make any claims about what is true of the world or to dispute the others’ claims about what is true. - Tooby & Cosmides
    The lion does not turn around when a small dog barks. -- African Proverb

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