• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump says he ‘never said’ Mexico would pay for the wall. But he did – a lot

Nonsense, we are paying folks "safety net" benefits to work 20 hours/week at McJobs which pay less than those jobs now eagerly taken by illegal immigrants. I have no difficulty finding temporary help (labor) when I need it. Of course, I pay at least $100/day for that help, provide transportation to/from the job site and lunch - sometimes even tossing in a few beers after work.

Argue the point with the Federal government. Currently the feds define full employment as as an unemployment rate of 4.6% or less - it changes based on current economic conditions. We are at 3.7% as of the latest numbers I saw.

The lowest unemployment we ever had was 1.6% or so and that was during WW II.

You may have no difficulty finding workers but that says nothing about the rest of the country.
 
Let’s MAGA and get kids and their mothers working as field hands again!
Trump is America's cultural revolution.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
 
Let’s MAGA and get kids and their mothers working as field hands again!

Is there a reason women cant do those jobs? Immigrant women do.

Why are you being ridiculous and implying that I was claiming forced labor? And esp. for minors?

Is that the only way you can try and dispute my post?
 
Argue the point with the Federal government. Currently the feds define full employment as as an unemployment rate of 4.6% or less - it changes based on current economic conditions. We are at 3.7% as of the latest numbers I saw.

The lowest unemployment we ever had was 1.6% or so and that was during WW II.

You may have no difficulty finding workers but that says nothing about the rest of the country.

What you are describing is the current lack of being able to find other then illegal immigrant labor for the wages/benefits offered. I have no difficulty finding help (labor) because I do offer decent pay/benefits and I'm said to be a real PITA to work with.
 
No it's not and the reasons have been outlined here and in the media many times. I"m not going to repeat it all here but there's some in the last few pages in this thread, showing exactly what the border patrol has said: the majority of drugs and humans being trafficked come thru the main portals smuggled on trucks and in cars.

Then just think how for just $1 billion would go towards investigating, identifying, and penalizing employers who hire illegals? Dry up the jobs, then those coming in for work stop coming. That's exactly what happened during the economic crisis in '08-09.

Simple, Reader's Digest version ^^, there's much more but I doubt you want to hear it.

Depending on which agents you talk to and where they are stationed you will be told a different problem. If you go to any major crossing area where walls and fences already exist the need is for more agents to check trucks and vehicles smuggling people, drugs and contraband in vehicles. If you talk to border patrol where inadequate fence and walls are or do not exist they will tell you they are needed. Our bias media can come up with any answer they want to portray to the mindless masses by asking the right questions to the right people. I can also go by the experience I have of 40 years of crossing the border and talking with border patrol all across Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. They have problems with people sneaking in where walls and fences are inadequate or are nonexciting. I am not easily swayed by the propaganda by the media which our rich and powerful own and use to keep the flow of cheap labor coming into our country.

 
Is there a reason women cant do those jobs? Immigrant women do.

Why are you being ridiculous and implying that I was claiming forced labor? And esp. for minors?

Is that the only way you can try and dispute my post?

Did I type ‘forced labor’?

I guess if you think mothers should have to go out to strawberry fields or pick cotton so they can get their WIC money, that’s on you.
 
While you wrote, the wall needs to be built, there are highly meritorious conclusions that the wall is an ineffectual, expensive project, that wasn't the result of a thought-out analysis. It was created to be a cheer-line at campaign rallies. It's merely a simplistic 'solution' to a complex problem. As others have already written, most undocumented aliens enter via plane, boat, or the northern border and overstay their visa.

Brushing off Trump's promise that Mexico would pay for the wall as unimportant, dismisses those campaign event attendees as pawns. Trump yelled, "who's going to pay for the wall" and they yell back, "MEXICO!" Now, you say that isn't important, which is an admission that it was merely a cynical campaign ploy and prop, that doesn't matter after it propelled him into office.

The fact that not even Republicans in the House and Senate put the wall into the budget over the last two years, should tell you something.


Just because the Swamp doesn't like the Wall, doesn't mean it won't get built. The fact is that enough people are behind the wall, and this is about a fight for sovereignty. I don't have a right to traipse into your yard without permission, I don't have the right to stick my hands down your pants without your permission, I don't have the right to trespass into a country without its permission. Those who like to help themselves to what belongs to others without asking permission are violating the rights of others. Nations have sovereignty, whether you like it or not.

This thread isn't a discussion of whether there is value in the wall, a position that most Americans reject. It's about Trump's denial now that he even said Mexico would pay for the wall.

This is just the weird hairsplitting mania that Oppo-dominated media are obsessed with. We can see that the American people aren't interested in the Oppo-media just by their continually declining ratings.
 
What you are describing is the current lack of being able to find other then illegal immigrant labor for the wages/benefits offered. I have no difficulty finding help (labor) because I do offer decent pay/benefits and I'm said to be a real PITA to work with.

I have no reason at all to doubt what you say. I'd only say that what the labor market looks like where you are doesn't necessarily reflect the rest of the nation. When the unemployment rate is this low it isn't because people are staying home because wages are too low. It's because they're temporarily between jobs or live in areas where there aren't jobs they want or are qualified for. Would the unemployment rate go down further if wages of jobs illegals take went up? Maybe. Probably. But I think what you'd likely see is people switching jobs instead of significant decreases in unemployment.
 
Just because the Swamp doesn't like the Wall, doesn't mean it won't get built. The fact is that enough people are behind the wall, and this is about a fight for sovereignty. I don't have a right to traipse into your yard without permission, I don't have the right to stick my hands down your pants without your permission, I don't have the right to trespass into a country without its permission. Those who like to help themselves to what belongs to others without asking permission are violating the rights of others. Nations have sovereignty, whether you like it or not.



This is just the weird hairsplitting mania that Oppo-dominated media are obsessed with. We can see that the American people aren't interested in the Oppo-media just by their continually declining ratings.

My understanding of the "swamp" is self-dealing insiders who profited from their connections in government by pulling strings for their own private benefit or profit. Moreover, it's about filling the government with lobbyists and corporate executives who'll directly benefit from their regulatory decisions, who relax or simply ignore ethics laws and regulations. It's about cabinet members who invest in stocks that rise based on the cabinet secretary's decision or the president's daughter making deals with China and granting her licenses just as her father is deciding on Chinese tariff policy -- or when foreign governments book rooms in the president's hotels to bestow favor.

TRUMP IS THE SWAMP.

For those of us who use our frontal lobes to evaluate information, we know that the wall, that would take years to build will not achieve the desired outcome. As I said, it will take years to build. We also know that most of the undocumented arrive via air and water and other land ports , while overstaying their visas. The wall will have no effect on this.

We also know that drugs enter the U.S. via container trucks, ships and planes. A wall, no matter how impenetrable, has no effect on this.

None of this has anything to do with national sovereignty, trespassing or any of the other inane violations you imagine are occuring.
 
Trump is taking on the Swamp. Little Trumpette's speaking tours or whatever money she's getting from China pales in comparison to the massive looting China's been engaging in thanks to the Swamp's appeasement policies. Trump is the only guy fighting for the working class, while the Democrat-Left shills throw the working class under a bus. You must not be from the working class, to not know this.

On the Wall, methinks ye doth protest too much. Your fear is precisely that the Wall will work - else you wouldn't be so against it. The Wall will first block the human trafficking and infiltration problem, and further sets the stage for being able to go after other types of smuggling routes like the container shipments, etc
 
Last edited:
Depending on which agents you talk to and where they are stationed you will be told a different problem. If you go to any major crossing area where walls and fences already exist the need is for more agents to check trucks and vehicles smuggling people, drugs and contraband in vehicles. If you talk to border patrol where inadequate fence and walls are or do not exist they will tell you they are needed. Our bias media can come up with any answer they want to portray to the mindless masses by asking the right questions to the right people. I can also go by the experience I have of 40 years of crossing the border and talking with border patrol all across Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. They have problems with people sneaking in where walls and fences are inadequate or are nonexciting. I am not easily swayed by the propaganda by the media which our rich and powerful own and use to keep the flow of cheap labor coming into our country.



Since the basic problem with walls is that people can go over (i.e. ladders) or under (i.e. tunnels) them, then, obviously, a wall that is a mere 30' high isn't going to be sufficient.

To be **T*R*U*L*Y** effective, the wall would have to be at least 50' high and would have to have a foundation that extended clear down to bedrock. Anything less secure than that would merely be a PR exercise.
 
Since the basic problem with walls is that people can go over (i.e. ladders) or under (i.e. tunnels) them, then, obviously, a wall that is a mere 30' high isn't going to be sufficient.

To be **T*R*U*L*Y** effective, the wall would have to be at least 50' high and would have to have a foundation that extended clear down to bedrock. Anything less secure than that would merely be a PR exercise.

First off most of the border is in a rocky area where the bedrock is exposed or only a few inches under the ground. A 30' wall with 3 coils of concertina wire is a formidable barrier. The only idiot I have seen try and get through concertina wire on a 10' fence almost bled to death. Young 19 year old trying to win some money on a bet thought it was easy like they show on TV. Most people can't contend with blackberry vines. I would say 90+% of the people will find it a formidable barrier. That is all it needs to be. Instead of dozen border patrol trying to round up a few hundred illegals a wall evens the odds without a doubt. That is why our military uses it and everyone else around the world. I have dealt with it first hand in the military sitting on the ground. There is no way in hell I would want to try and get through it 30 feet in the air. Only the clueless think it is not a formidable barrier.
 
First off most of the border is in a rocky area where the bedrock is exposed or only a few inches under the ground. A 30' wall with 3 coils of concertina wire is a formidable barrier. The only idiot I have seen try and get through concertina wire on a 10' fence almost bled to death. Young 19 year old trying to win some money on a bet thought it was easy like they show on TV. Most people can't contend with blackberry vines. I would say 90+% of the people will find it a formidable barrier. That is all it needs to be. Instead of dozen border patrol trying to round up a few hundred illegals a wall evens the odds without a doubt. That is why our military uses it and everyone else around the world. I have dealt with it first hand in the military sitting on the ground. There is no way in hell I would want to try and get through it 30 feet in the air. Only the clueless think it is not a formidable barrier.

LOL.

Clueless is definitely a theme here.

Refugees keep sneaking through Hungary’s razor-wire fence
 
Depending on which agents you talk to and where they are stationed you will be told a different problem. If you go to any major crossing area where walls and fences already exist the need is for more agents to check trucks and vehicles smuggling people, drugs and contraband in vehicles. If you talk to border patrol where inadequate fence and walls are or do not exist they will tell you they are needed. Our bias media can come up with any answer they want to portray to the mindless masses by asking the right questions to the right people. I can also go by the experience I have of 40 years of crossing the border and talking with border patrol all across Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. They have problems with people sneaking in where walls and fences are inadequate or are nonexciting. I am not easily swayed by the propaganda by the media which our rich and powerful own and use to keep the flow of cheap labor coming into our country.



That doesnt dispute what I wrote.
 
Did I type ‘forced labor’?

I guess if you think mothers should have to go out to strawberry fields or pick cotton so they can get their WIC money, that’s on you.

"Field hands" were slaves.

And I see no reason they cant do that at all. Why dont you explain to me why they cant? Millions of single mothers (and fathers) work.

How about you explain to me why immigrant women can, and American women, mothers or not, cant? Or even shouldnt?
 
First off most of the border is in a rocky area where the bedrock is exposed or only a few inches under the ground. A 30' wall with 3 coils of concertina wire is a formidable barrier. The only idiot I have seen try and get through concertina wire on a 10' fence almost bled to death. Young 19 year old trying to win some money on a bet thought it was easy like they show on TV. Most people can't contend with blackberry vines. I would say 90+% of the people will find it a formidable barrier. That is all it needs to be. Instead of dozen border patrol trying to round up a few hundred illegals a wall evens the odds without a doubt. That is why our military uses it and everyone else around the world. I have dealt with it first hand in the military sitting on the ground. There is no way in hell I would want to try and get through it 30 feet in the air. Only the clueless think it is not a formidable barrier.

How "formidable" a barrier is really depends on how deeply the person is motivated to bypass it, doesn't it?
 
"Field hands" were slaves.

Some were, some weren't. Those who weren't were (generally) "sharecroppers" and, on balance, the "slaves" had a better economic deal, after all, the "slave owner" had a vested economic interest in keeping them healthy but the owners of the "sharecropped" fields had absolutely none towards the "sharecroppers" who were disposable.
 
Some were, some weren't. Those who weren't were (generally) "sharecroppers" and, on balance, the "slaves" had a better economic deal, after all, the "slave owner" had a vested economic interest in keeping them healthy but the owners of the "sharecropped" fields had absolutely none towards the "sharecroppers" who were disposable.

More than a useless distraction, non-productive.
 
"Field hands" were slaves.

And I see no reason they cant do that at all. Why dont you explain to me why they cant? Millions of single mothers (and fathers) work.

How about you explain to me why immigrant women can, and American women, mothers or not, cant? Or even shouldnt?

Field hands are people who.. work in fields.

You’re right. Uprooting single moms with a few kids who work in the cities to some rural farm where they work for a few weeks at a time, constantly moving, sure would be great for the kids. Lots of school opportunities every two weeks, or they can toddle along after their moms picking tomatoes.
 
That doesnt dispute what I wrote.

I am not disputing what you wrote. I am saying we need different barriers and security in different areas of our border. A wall does not work along our coast lines.
 
I'm not quibbling about anything. That is what the left has been doing.
None of you care about the cost or who pays for it. Your fully invested in stopping trump from fulfilling a campaign pledge.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

How will he get Mexico to fulfill his pledge?

It was a two part pledge.

One for the xenophobes and one for the tax hawks.
 
Why should our government, 800,000 federal workers and all those Americans and businesses, big and small, who depend on these government services be held hostage over somebody wanting their ridiculously stupid campaign pledge?

Bet trouble13 would he singing a different tune if trump made a campaign promise that trouble13 would come and clean all those voters' houses, huh?
 
Back
Top Bottom