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How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Security

Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

You are generalizing towards me, with an argument I never made. You are downplaying the issue. I am skewering that take and you keep backpedaling.

You're skewering nothing. I provided a scholarly book that explains my position. You've done nothing but post one example. ONE.

I admitted generalizing. Unapologetically, at that, since conservative Trumpists have become the most obtuse offenders of rash generalizations I've ever seen, supporters of the slobbering, citrus colored ape we elected president.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

You give a totally specious argument. The new trade deal once ratified by congress will reduce the trade deficit with Mexico. And all he has to do is put a remittance tax to tax non citizens send money out of the IS. The saving in the new trade deal and the remittance tax would indeed pay for the wall. An in point of fact Trump never said Mexico would prepay for the wall. That is total Democrat BS.

No one said anything about prepaying anything. Trump said over and over again that Mexico will pay for the wall. No rational person can deny that.

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/01/factchecking-trumps-immigration-address/

Trade Deal Won’t Pay for Wall
Trump continued to claim that he is staying true to his campaign pledge that Mexico would pay for the border wall, insisting that Mexico will pay “indirectly” through a new international trade agreement. But that’s spin.

Trump, Jan. 8: The wall will also be paid for, indirectly, by the great new trade deal we have made with Mexico.

The United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement was signed on Nov. 30 by the leaders of all three countries, but it still must be ratified by Congress. Even if it is, though, there is nothing in it specifying that Mexico will pay for any border wall.

The president’s argument is that Mexico will pay “indirectly” because of benefits that accrue to the U.S. through the new trade agreement. But economists told us that while the trade agreement is arguably a slightly more advantageous deal for the U.S. than its predecessor, the North American Free Trade Agreement, it won’t generate enough additional federal revenues to pay for the border wall, and shouldn’t be construed as Mexican payments, anyway.

“Even if we accept conceptually the argument that government revenue attributable to the revised trade agreement constitutes ‘Mexico paying for the wall,’ there are no plausible assumptions of USMCA’s impact that would see government revenue increase by $25 billion,” said Geoffrey Gertz, a fellow in the Global Economy and Development program at the Brookings Institution and a research associate at the Global Economic Governance Programme at the University of Oxford.

Kent Smetters, a professor of business economics and public policy at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School, agreed.

“Relative to NAFTA, the Mexican government would not nearly lose enough tariff revenue that could be constituted as paying for the wall, at least the wall as previously envisioned by the Administration; nor would the U.S. government revenue increase enough based on a dynamic score,” said Smetters, who was an economist at the Congressional Budget Office in the 1990s. “In fact, the additional revenue to U.S. relative to NAFTA would, optimistically, not cover annual maintenance and improvements of the wall much less the original build.”
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

What give and take are the Democrats offering right now? The answer is nothing. They’re just being the obstructionist tower of no that they complained about Republicans being under the Obama administration. So as far as I’m concerned, they can accept Donald’s $5 billion compromise or be the tower of no until the Capitol itself is forced to close and they have to go home.

Well, you're the one who cited the 2013 bill and all you need to do is follow the link to see what 'give and take' the Democrats were offering on a comprehensive bill. Are you now not wanting to use your own example because it disproves your point?

And we know what the GOP hardliners in the House said - "**** you and your compromises! We won't even bother taking it up."

FWIW, so far as I'm concerned, Pelosi can continue to say, "No" in response to the Toddler in Chief's whiny demands. He said he'd own the shutdown and he will, along with McConnell. And in the meantime he'll learn the fact of life that POTUS can only spend what Congress appropriates. He should have learned it from cartoons growing up, but missed those segments I guess.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

You're skewering nothing. I provided a scholarly book that explains my position. You've done nothing but post one example. ONE.

I admitted generalizing. Unapologetically, at that, since conservative Trumpists have become the most obtuse offenders of rash generalizations I've ever seen, supporters of the slobbering, citrus colored ape we elected president.

So, more stereotyping. Super. Trump supporters made you do it LOL
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

I’m not in favor of rewarding Pelosi with another 20 years of do-nothing negotiations. Do it now or go home.

You don't have to reward anyone for anything. The Democrats control the House and the purse strings. It's just a fact, we had an election in November, Democrats gained control of the House, and that control means Toddler in Chief doesn't have the power to demand anything, but must negotiate with House Democrats if he wants his Great Wall funded. And the proper negotiating stance while government is shut down and held hostage is, simply, "No."
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

That is a reasonable deal. Secure the border so we don't have more DACA kids. Give the DACA kids a path to citizenship.

You don't have to reward anyone for anything. The Democrats control the House and the purse strings. It's just a fact, we had an election in November, Democrats gained control of the House, and that control means Toddler in Chief doesn't have the power to demand anything, but must negotiate with House Democrats if he wants his Great Wall funded. And the proper negotiating stance while government is shut down and held hostage is, simply, "No."

Like I’ve said numerous times in other threads. Donald has the statutory authority to unilaterally commit funding and contract this barrier. He doesn’t have to negotiate anything and if the Democrats refuse to compromise and use this as an opportunity to tie additional funding for Democratic initiatives then Donald can do it on his own or the government can wither and die for all I care.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

Did you tell every single Democrat who voted in 2013 for “no fewer than 700 miles” of double and triple layered border fence?
Keep shoveling. :lol:

Another right winger who doesn't understand how Congress works, and that in a big bill like that one, with many provisions, you can't separate the parts from the whole. It's willful ignorance.

Have McConnell dust off that bill in its entirety, get it passed through the Senate, and I'll bet you that Pelosi will get it through her House. Of course that 2013 bill was DOA in the GOP House in 2013. But don't let facts get in the way of a crappy right wing talking point.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

Like I’ve said numerous times in other threads. Donald has the statutory authority to unilaterally commit funding and contract this barrier. He doesn’t have to negotiate anything and if the Democrats refuse to compromise and use this as an opportunity to tie additional funding for Democratic initiatives then Donald can do it on his own or the government can wither and die for all I care.

Ah, yes, the "liberal" defending authoritarianism as an end run around the Constitution. If he declares a 'national emergency' to solve a funding dispute, and that's what this is, then he's abusing the power of his office. It's just an admission of failure and Trump seizing on what he sees as a face saving way out of the box he painted himself into, out of ignorance and impulsiveness.

Anyway, if you're OK with that, there's not really any point in debating the issue.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

Again I ask: should we build a wall along the entire Canadian border?

It would work, therefore we should build it?


~~~~~~
Is there a need to keep out illegal alien hoards from our Northern borders?
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

First off the Secure Fencing Act was bill that was passed and signed during Bush Jr's Administration. Not during Obama's. And the claim was that 649 miles of the 652 miles described in the Secure Fence Act of 2006 was completed under the Obama administration and that is a true statement.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/may/16/barack-obama/obama-says-border-fence-now-basically-complete/



As for the Fence Act, Perhaps you haven't been paying attention. Correction: I know you haven't been paying attention. But Trump didn't want any damn "fence". He wanted a "wall". He even corrected his then Chief of Staff General Kelly suggestion that Trump's thinking on a border barrier had "evolved" (He should've known that was going to be trouble. Using the word "evolved" in conjunction in anything having to with Trump.) to being a steel slat fence instead of a actual wall. Trump almost immediately contradicted his White House Chief of Staff by tweeting; “An all concrete Wall was NEVER ABANDONED,”. It's the wall that democrats are opposed to. Not border security.



~~~~~~
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...ama-says-border-fence-now-basically-complete/

"So Obama can make a case that the vehicle barriers and single-layer pedestrian fences meet the amended letter of the law. But we also think Obama misleads, particularly when he mocks Republican opponents, saying that even though the fence has been built, "They'll want want a higher fence. Maybe they’ll need a moat. Maybe they want alligators in the moat." The Border Patrol has not gone "above and beyond" what Republicans requested, as Obama claimed. What they originally requested was a double-layer fence, and they didn't get much of it. And so we rate Obama's statement Barely True."
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

Republicans know they lost the argument on the wall, so now they're trying to pretend it's always been about simple "border security."

They're gas lighting the country in exactly the same way as when they pretended that Trump didn't spend a straight year telling us that Mexico would pay for the wall.

Republicans are lying about every square inch of this issue, including that past Presidents supported or argued for a wall, that terrorists are flooding across the US/Mexico border, or that immigrants are responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime.

They're all starting to abandon calling the border security issue a "crisis," and have almost completely given up trying to lay blame for the shutdown on Democrats.

Aside from the ACA, I can't think of a single national debate that Republicans lost so perfectly.

Said the man with his usual partisan hack responses.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

As those college students go out into the real world, they are going to be "shocked" by much more than mere words.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

Ah, yes, the "liberal" defending authoritarianism as an end run around the Constitution. If he declares a 'national emergency' to solve a funding dispute, and that's what this is, then he's abusing the power of his office. It's just an admission of failure and Trump seizing on what he sees as a face saving way out of the box he painted himself into, out of ignorance and impulsiveness.

Anyway, if you're OK with that, there's not really any point in debating the issue.

When did exercising the authority granted to the President by a statute authored and passed by Congress become “authoritarianism?”
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

It's ironic that the quotes used directly refute the Republican accusations that Democrats don't want border security, or that they didn't enforce immigration laws. This thread only points out right wing hypocrisy.
:lamo

No...what it points out is those same rat clowns are now saying the exact opposite of what they used to say. What it exposes is that rats are liars and hypocrites and their muppet followers swallow everything they are told to like good little children.



Liars and hypocrites.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

A wall covering the entire border is wasteful and inefficient. I want border security funds to be spent more efficiently. Why don't you?


~~~~~~
Logically it would be nearly impossible to cover the entire border with a double layered barrier. If you're so interested on spending money so efficiently, why don't you investigate where the more than $56 billion went for the Secure Border Fencing of 2006 that Obama was to complete and never did. "The purpose of the proposed barrier is two-fold, slowing the intruders and making them visible to members of the border patrol. The rest of the work is done by human beings."
"Very little of the Israeli separation barrier erected to keep out terrorists is a wall, most of the 400 miles of the barrier which has received so much international scorn is a two layered fence like section of their barrier below. The fence has served its purpose, in 2002, the year before construction started, 457 Israelis were murdered; in 2009, 8 Israelis were killed."
"The reason it has been effective is not simply the fence itself but how the fence is guarded and patrolled. And that’s what will make our fence along the Mexican border work."

Feds Have Built Only 32 Miles of 700 Mile Double-Border
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/articl...ble-border-fence-originally-mandated-congress
The Secure Fence Act of 2006 specifically ordered DHS to build two layers of reinforced fencing along 700 specific miles of the nearly 2,000 mile U.S.-Mexico border. The Secure Fence Act of 2006 specifically ordered DHS to build two layers of reinforced fencing along 700 specific miles of the nearly 2,000 mile U.S.-Mexico border.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

~~~~~~
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...ama-says-border-fence-now-basically-complete/

"So Obama can make a case that the vehicle barriers and single-layer pedestrian fences meet the amended letter of the law. But we also think Obama misleads, particularly when he mocks Republican opponents, saying that even though the fence has been built, "They'll want want a higher fence. Maybe they’ll need a moat. Maybe they want alligators in the moat." The Border Patrol has not gone "above and beyond" what Republicans requested, as Obama claimed. What they originally requested was a double-layer fence, and they didn't get much of it. And so we rate Obama's statement Barely True."

What is it with all the reading challenged posters around here? Did you not see that the Fence was amended so as Borders and Customs could decide what type of fence would go where? Like I said before. If you don't like the result take it up with Border and Customs. And really by this point the republicans deserved to be mocked for standing by this clown.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

College students are just that, students. That anything shocks them is no surprise. Among the points of being a college student is to obtain a deep and broad enough understanding of the world in which they live so that few if anything flabbergasts them.

Their deep and broad understanding comes from liberal professors.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

When did exercising the authority granted to the President by a statute authored and passed by Congress become “authoritarianism?”

When it's used for something outside its intended purpose.

This is a funding dispute, not a national emergency, unless he's ignored this national emergency for all of 2017 and 2018 and it only became a national emergency AFTER the GOP got its ass handed to it in the House in the midterms and the Democrats took over.

Pretty convenient timing, don't you think?
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

Republicans know they lost the argument on the wall, so now they're trying to pretend it's always been about simple "border security."

They're gas lighting the country in exactly the same way as when they pretended that Trump didn't spend a straight year telling us that Mexico would pay for the wall.

Republicans are lying about every square inch of this issue, including that past Presidents supported or argued for a wall, that terrorists are flooding across the US/Mexico border, or that immigrants are responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime.

They're all starting to abandon calling the border security issue a "crisis," and have almost completely given up trying to lay blame for the shutdown on Democrats.

Aside from the ACA, I can't think of a single national debate that Republicans lost so perfectly.

People who want border security don't give a damn who pays for the wall. Only people who don't want the wall in the first place care about who pays for the wall.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

When it's used for something outside its intended purpose.

This is a funding dispute, not a national emergency, unless he's ignored this national emergency for all of 2017 and 2018 and it only became a national emergency AFTER the GOP got its ass handed to it in the House in the midterms and the Democrats took over.

Pretty convenient timing, don't you think?

The statute only requires that the President determines the contract serves a national defense interest.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

People who want border security don't give a damn who pays for the wall. Only people who don't want the wall in the first place care about who pays for the wall.

If it wasn’t important who paid for the wall then trump should have been upfront about that. His dishonesty has cost you your wall.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

If it wasn’t important who paid for the wall then trump should have been upfront about that. His dishonesty has cost you your wall.

LOL. So, you are saying that if Trump had said we would pay for the wall and not Mexico, Chuck and Nancy would have been all for it? Really? Is that what you are saying?
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

This is why those kids will graduate with a mountain of debt and work for McDonalds scrubbing out french fryers.

What is it about cons that they live their lives clouded by cliche. We have a full employment economy, college graduates are not typically working at McDonalds, unless they want to. Even in the bowels of the last deep recession, the unemployment rate for college graduates remained under 5%.

It is clear why cons live in a cloud; their politics is clear as mud. Once again, this whole issue is about conflation. the Wall does not equal border security. The latter is a theorhetorical problem, while the former is a potential solution proposed and endorsed by simpletons.
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

What is it about cons that they live their lives clouded by cliche. We have a full employment economy, college graduates are not typically working at McDonalds, unless they want to. Even in the bowels of the last deep recession, the unemployment rate for college graduates remained under 5%.

It is clear why cons live in a cloud. Their politics is clear as mud. Once again, this whole issue is about conflation. the Wall does not equal border security. The latter is a theorhetical problem and the former is a potential solution proposed and endorsed by simpletons.

“The bill before us will certainly do some good,” Obama said on the Senate floor in October 2006. He praised the legislation, saying it would provide “better fences and better security along our borders” and would “help stem some of the tide of illegal immigration in this country.”

“I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in,” [Hillary] Clinton said at November 2015 town hall in New Hampshire, “and I do think that you have to control your borders.”
 
Re: How About That?: College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed Border Securit

LOL. So, you are saying that if Trump had said we would pay for the wall and not Mexico, Chuck and Nancy would have been all for it? Really? Is that what you are saying?

Do you deny that if republicans hadn’t lied on every aspect of the issue they might have had a better go of it? And if they had only told the truth, what would be left of their argument?
 
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