Trump Walks Out of Border Talks, Calls Them ‘Total Waste of Time’

Exactice said:

I can see you do NOT care about facts that do NOT fit your narrative,

You keep regurgitating the same rhetoric That Trump is separating families. I have laid FACTUAL evidence from the LAW stand point the Operating procedures and common practices. YOU just said you dont care that settles it you do NOT care about truth and facts just what fits your agenda.

Its not a matter if I like it or NOT I agree there is ABSOLUTE political dynamics but to blame trump is just false. THE fact is Someone Initiated the Child Safeguard SOP. Someone Initiated the Immigrations Laws. Someone classified Illegal border crossing as a detain-able misdemeanor AND it was NOT TRUMP. Trump just waned the law to be 100% enforced .

YOu can put whatever other False Rhetoric you want as UN FACTUAL.

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So all the commotion about Trump separating families at the border is imaginary. is that what you're saying?

OscarLevant said:

So all the commotion about Trump separating families at the border is imaginary. is that what you're saying?

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NO NO NOT at all! It is a FAIR concern and a FAIR commotion THAT SHOULD BE address.

I have stated in my response too you IT SHOULD BE FIXED.

This though requires an IMMIGRATION REFORM, NOT a Wall. And Then accepting responsibilities for ones OWN actions, that if you CHOSE to break our laws with Children in TOW you have a HIGH probability of being separated from your child. Thats SIMPLE Facts.


How we fix is, is SPECIFIED Guidance to DHS and CPS upon care, custody and control of an undocumented child of an undocumented parent that is detained. PERIOD.


OR Creating a situation where the US as whole is NOT responsible for Parents with children in tow that intentionally cross our borders illegally.

OscarLevant said:

I don't believe separating children from parents for first time crossers is moral

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Fair opinion! So here are a couple issues.

Morals and Emotions have NOTHING to do with the Law. the Law is the LAW. if you do NOT like the LAW you have 2 choices

1) DONT break it
2) Change the law


Secondly. If you do NOT agree with the Practices Dont BLAME the person thats enforcing the LAW. Blame those that CREATED the law. By you guys Blaming Trump for this, it WILL NEVER CHANGE the outcome.

YOU MUST go to your congressman or women and Tell them they need to ADDRESS the laws that have been on the books WELL before TRUMP, Obama, Bush etc..... THE law is the LAW

Exactice said:

Fair opinion! So here are a couple issues.

Morals and Emotions have NOTHING to do with the Law. the Law is the LAW. if you do NOT like the LAW you have 2 choices

1) DONT break it
2) Change the law


Secondly. If you do NOT agree with the Practices Dont BLAME the person thats enforcing the LAW. Blame those that CREATED the law. By you guys Blaming Trump for this, it WILL NEVER CHANGE the outcome.

YOU MUST go to your congressman or women and Tell them they need to ADDRESS the laws that have been on the books WELL before TRUMP, Obama, Bush etc..... THE law is the LAW

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They don't have to separate the children regardless of the law. The health and well being of children is not an emotional issue per se, it's a moral issue. Separating children from parents at the border for first-time crossers is not necessary

OscarLevant said:

They don't have to separate the children regardless of the law

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SAYS who? That is Standard Practices. Thus my last post about slippery slopes

What about American Citizens that are detained and have their children separated. WHY would illegals get treated better then American Citizens.

If we take OUT context of crime and USE just the Term "Detain-able Misdemeanor" Both requires a child to be safeguarded from the apprehending Parent. WHY only At the border do they deserve to be treated differently? We are NOW picking and choosing how to enforce the law?

Do you not see the failures in the LAW NOT the enforcement of it. OR The Failures of the PARENT to intentional break our laws.

Why should the consequences of breaking the law VARY based on emotion?

Exactice said:

SAYS who? That is Standard Practices. Thus my last post about slippery slopes

What about American Citizens that are detained and have their children separated. WHY would illegals get treated better then American Citizens.

If we take OUT context of crime and USE just the Term "Detain-able Misdemeanor" Both requires a child to be safeguarded from the apprehending Parent. WHY only At the border do they deserve to be treated differently? We are NOW picking and choosing how to enforce the law?

Do you not see the failures in the LAW NOT the enforcement of it. OR The Failures of the PARENT to intentional break our laws.

Why should the consequences of breaking the law VARY based on emotion?

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Yes, we can wait around until a totally gridlocked legislature someday does something about it, legally, maybe, maybe if we hold our breath long enough.

Until that day comes.....

I'm not making a distinction about "American kids", or "Foreign kids". Kids are kids. They are innocent. One is not better than another, they both are equal in deserving a good shot in life.


So, you are saying all the 2000 kids separated from their parents at the border for a class B misdemeanor is acceptable?

Are you saying that separating parents from their children done so incompetently that who knows how many kids cannot be reunited
with their parents due failure to keep records, this is acceptable?

You are saying that a parent who has only two choices in life: get hurt or killed by drug cartel people or flee to America where
their is a better chance of survival, that the parents who trekked over a 1000 miles, you are saying they are criminals?

Is that what you are saying?

I know you think it's complicated, but what is complicated about destroying a child's life?

I should think the solution is simple, quit doing it ( for first time border crossers )

Why? Because IT IS NOT NECESSARY.


Everything else is a separate argument, the operative word is "separate" and "necessary".

You really don't have to connect them, for the sake of the kids, you really don't have to. YOu just want to because you don't
like people ragging on Trump.

Well, if there is one person in the world that seriously needs to be ragged on, it is Trump.

Quit apologizing for this man, he is not your friend. Trump has only one friend, that is Donald Trump. Everything else is either an accessory or a possession, or a thing to be used, abused, or discarded.

There is nothing else, when it comes to Trump. Poison Trees yield poison fruit. There is no non poison fruit coming from the Trump Tree.

Wake up.

OscarLevant said:

.......

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Context.

1) I do NOT know all the stats about the 2000 children. YOU seem to assume that they are a cookie cutter situation. That they were consenting parents with their own children. We do not know if it was a ploy for a false guardian or parent we do NOT know if they intentionally gave up their children for a better chance at life as that was found to be the fact that some parents wanted to be caught so the child could be given to CPS to find them a better home. YOU are blanketing that all 2000 children where separated in malice

2) You have parroted more than ONCE that These parents where "escaping" harm and death YET there are Factual Statistics that 70% are DENIED Asylum because they do NOT qualify, Specifically 80% are denied from the 3 major south American countries (El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala) So I do NOT buy in the they are "ALL" escaping harm etc....

3) You cannot be Unaware that there is a LEGAL way to stay together with your children. Secondly there is a LEGAL way to get into the US if you fear imminent harm. Its by ways of going to a Legal Port of Entry and then claiming Asylum. Are you TElling me you know for a FACT that these 2000 children with parents did this, NONE were caught outside of a port of entry? I know you CANNOT.

So do NOT tell me things you do NOT have facts about There are FACTS

1) There is a LEGAL way to enter this country
2) IF you break those rules there are consequences that HAS NOT gotten a change in guidance from the current President
3) The ONLY policy change given to BP agents and LEO @ the Border? 100% enforcement.

You add in all your emotions and children this and children that.. I am a father of 2. I know that entering the US undocumented is NOT legal that is my cognitive choice are you saying the ADULTS get a pass just because they have children?

You are basically saying that children are the excuse to disregard our LAW do you NOT see the incentive that you are intentionally creating to ENDANGER children. That is BOTH selfish and ignorant.

I can see that you are ONLY looking at the "Children" as the excuse yet you do NOT want to accept any cause and effect more so the further down the road.

I am in no way trying to prove you wrong or be right BUT to have a fair and intelligent debate based on facts. YOU HAVE chosen to disregard them

Have a good evening I think I have spent enough time on this subject with you and unfortunately while I understand your Point of view, I have accepted that YES we NEED to change the procedures in handling children at the border you do NOT want to admit that its NOT a Policy enacted by TRUMP BUT it should be something that He and his administration SHOULD consider legislating for. I want MAJOR Immigration reform and I want those that want to come to the US for a better life to AT the least respect the laws of the country you want so badly want to enter.


Right back at you..... WAKE UP..... There are legal and right ways to solve problems. You just want to solve the immediate issue like a bandaid without acknowledging the underlying issue at hand. Parents Intentionally breaking the LAW and a Law that has flaws and needs to be revise to be both Humane yet effective.

OscarLevant said:

........

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I have ONE more VERY simple questions.... This should really stir that pot.


TRUMP drops the 100% enforcement policy..... Ok... Lets just say it COMPLETELY disappears erased from our memory.

How will that STOP Family separation from the border? As if the LEO picks and choose when to enforce the law. There will be times they DO enforce the law right? The LAW still stands that if an apprehended parent is detained, the child is safeguarded or separated form the Parent? As this was NEVER the covered, changed, modified issue.

So how do you propose TRUMP fix this issue when its BEEN the same for YEARS that the only POLICY Issued by his administration was for explicit 100% enforcement?

Exactice said:

I have ONE more VERY simple questions.... This should really stir that pot.


TRUMP drops the 100% enforcement policy..... Ok... Lets just say it COMPLETELY disappears erased from our memory.

How will that STOP Family separation from the border? As if the LEO picks and choose when to enforce the law. There will be times they DO enforce the law right? The LAW still stands that if an apprehended parent is detained, the child is safeguarded or separated form the Parent? As this was NEVER the covered, changed, modified issue.

So how do you propose TRUMP fix this issue when its BEEN the same for YEARS that the only POLICY Issued by his administration was for explicit 100% enforcement?

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The point is to do it as minimum as possible do it only when it's absolutely necessary he's doing it wholesale.

Everything else is another subject another debate. All I'm focused on here is the health and well-being of these children who are innocent

OscarLevant said:

The point is to do it as minimum as possible do it only when it's absolutely necessary he's doing it wholesale.

Everything else is another subject another debate. All I'm focused on here is the health and well-being of these children who are innocent

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WHO picks and chooses when its absolutely necessary? The law is the LAW there is no pick and choosing.

Will you concede then THAT Trump is NOT The cause of the separation but the FAILURES to address the application of the law and the Procedures set for both the handling Depratments WHICH have been in operation since Clinton DAYS?

WIll you concede that WE need to ADDRESS not the enforcement of the law BUT the LAWS them selves and Has nothing to do with TRUMP Per say but the legislation in regards to immigration?


OR will you continue to say that Trump has caused this family separation? I am NOT defending TRUMP I am ADDRESSING THE ACTUAL FAILURE. That is the LAW and the Procedures of the Departments like DHS and CPS when the LOSE the parent and child unification. Has NOTHING to do with Trump Yes or NO? Trump CAN change the Laws JUST like all the prior administrations could as well. YET NONE HAVE.

Exactice said:

WHO picks and chooses when its absolutely necessary? The law is the LAW there is no pick and choosing.

Will you concede then THAT Trump is NOT The cause of the separation but the FAILURES to address the application of the law and the Procedures set for both the handling Depratments WHICH have been in operation since Clinton DAYS?

WIll you concede that WE need to ADDRESS not the enforcement of the law BUT the LAWS them selves and Has nothing to do with TRUMP Per say but the legislation in regards to immigration?


OR will you continue to say that Trump has caused this family separation? I am NOT defending TRUMP I am ADDRESSING THE ACTUAL FAILURE. That is the LAW and the Procedures of the Departments like DHS and CPS when the LOSE the parent and child unification. Has NOTHING to do with Trump Yes or NO? Trump CAN change the Laws JUST like all the prior administrations could as well. YET NONE HAVE.

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You're wrong, of course. Trump did the "picking and choosing" when he decided, unlike prior admins, to prosecute all first timers and separate children.

He didn't have to do that, but he did.

OscarLevant said:

You're wrong, of course. Trump did the "picking and choosing" when he decided, unlike prior admins, to prosecute all first timers and separate children.

He didn't have to do that, but he did.

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Sir I have no Idea what world you are living in.... I dont care about who is right or wrong, I care about facts.

100% enforcement is THE LAW yes unlike prior admins to "prosecute all first timers" is a CONSTITUTIONAL Responsibility of the PRESIDENT to "Enforce all existing laws" He did Have to as ALL other presidents ITS IN THE CONSTITUTION

Sir if you want to just believe what you want that is what it is. This is exactly why we will never be able to get legislation because people like you that do not want address factual issues just what you "Feel" is right....

I have had enough, I have posted so much that it is almost like you are intentionally trolling me. I have had enough

Have a great day! NO point as you are not seeing things rationally.

tres borrachos said:

Yes, your posts are the epitome of dishonesty.

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As your post was the one containing the dishonesty, as well as this one being just as dishonest, you are just projecting.