• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Networks to air Pelosi, Schumer rebuttal to Trump

dobieg said:
Why? Are they unwilling to compromise?
Click to expand...

Why, yes, yes they are not willing to compromise. If you look at the history, there was a deal given that would have let Trump have the full 25 billion in return to some DACA issues, and that got ripped away by Trump in specifically, and McConnell followed suit. Trump is doing a lot of posturing..and because of his statements, he has made it quite clear that it's his shutdown....
 
tres borrachos said:
I didn't say anything about people coming here illegally. I'm talking about people who want to be US citizens. Why shouldn't anyone on Earth become a US citizen if they will be a productive, contributing member of society? Which people do you want to prevent being citizens, besides people who sneak over the border?
Click to expand...

There are limits, right? I don't want people coming here that intend to hurt this country. And, of course, it depends on what amount of people we want to come here.
 
Anthony60 said:
There are limits, right? I don't want people coming here that intend to hurt this country. And, of course, it depends on what amount of people we want to come here.
Click to expand...

Nobody wants people to come here that will hurt our country. Including those dreaded horrible Democrats.

Everyone who wants to be a productive member of society should be able to come to this country and become a citizen.
 
tres borrachos said:
Nobody wants people to come here that will hurt our country. Including those dreaded horrible Democrats.

Everyone who wants to be a productive member of society should be able to come to this country and become a citizen.
Click to expand...




That's a bunch of crap. they don't care as long as they think they can use the issue to win.
 
jdog21 said:
Crime & gang violence are not reason for asylum, a lot of countries are F'd up but you get asylum for fleeing from persecution from your government. So once in another country like Mexico you no longer are in fear of your government persecuting you their for you're safe. You have to apply the international law for whats considered safe to refugees instead of looking at it through US eyes of what you perceive may be a crime riden country.
Click to expand...

Crime and gang violence is not what they are fleeing from? You obviously have no clue what is going on down in those Central American countries then.
 
tres borrachos said:
You're the one who has an issue with people becoming citizens. Not me.

I never suggested that everyone on Earth should be a US citizen. That was, as Phys said, your strawman.
Click to expand...

You are quite the source of amusement, that's why I even bother engaging you on your journeys. It's always interesting on how you will misdirect and respond to a post.

I must say, you are very good at it. Like this post here. You are the one that asked about "people" coming here, right? Of course you don't respond to my question about who you are talking about with that term. Instead, you actually act as if it was I that asked using that very generic term.

You make the statement that I have an issue with people becoming citizens, as if that is a bad thing. Of course, you must be aware I don't want people coming here illegally and becoming citizens, but you ask anyway. You goal is to twist it around as if I don't want anyone becoming a citizen. Well done! Of course, you are not fooling me, but there are simpletons here that lap it right up.

I could go on, and on, but that's all I want to expose at this point.

Bravo!
 
tres borrachos said:
Nobody wants people to come here that will hurt our country. Including those dreaded horrible Democrats.

Everyone who wants to be a productive member of society should be able to come to this country and become a citizen.
Click to expand...

Okay, so back to the little game...

No, of course everyone who wants to become a productive member of society shouldn't be able to come in. That's silly. we decide who comes in, it's not an unlimited amount.
 
ataraxia said:
I think the problem a lot of Democrats up with this wall is not about enhancing border security. Most experts on the subject ( I know conservatives hate experts, but still) are telling us that the resources could be much better spent in other ways, like aerial surveillance, motion detectors, etc.... if you really think there is such a serious problem at the border, which is questionable, these might be better use of resources. Trump may find that the Democrats would be more open to such measures than just a giant wall.

So what’s wrong with a wall? Well, as explained above, experts are telling us it’s not the most effective use of our resources. But more than that, it’s deeply offensive. Symbolically, it is a very insulting thing to do to our largest trading partner, not to mention the rest of South America. It’s good to not insult the entire planet. This wall is the symbolic equivalent of a giant middle finger stuck out to all of Central and South America, and probably just as effective in getting the actual work done.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people are missing the point of the wall. The problem with illegal immigration is not catching them once they arrive, which is what all this "enhanced security" nonsense is about, the wall prevents them for getting here at all. Costs go down dramatically if we can keep them out in the first place. Keeping them out with a wall, will pay for itself immeasurably over time, so much so that resources that are otherwise now being spent on processing these illegals, will now be better spent on the problem we have with the illegals that are already here.

It's simple math, and it's also a good idea to secure the border with a wall. They work, they've worked for millennia, and they work when we build them around our homes.

IMO, the democrats picked the wrong fight with Trump, overall most American's want to prevent illegal immigration, the numbers have remained consistent for decades now, hovering around 63%.

We need the wall, Trump knows it, I know it, and I think he totally made the dems own this shutdown last night!


Tim-
 
jmotivator said:
Nope, just laughing at your attempt to occupy the high ground on this while doing the exact thing you are criticizing me for doing.
Click to expand...

You really don't know how this works, do you? I get it, you feel entitled to immunity from having your points scrutinized. Kind of like your president. Well guess what. You are not entitled to that immunity.

So. Return to using the correct term, Democratic party, and I will do the same, Republican party, and then we can return to debating the OP. But you must make the first move.
 
Anthony60 said:
Okay, so back to the little game...

No, of course everyone who wants to become a productive member of society shouldn't be able to come in. That's silly. we decide who comes in, it's not an unlimited amount.
Click to expand...

Dodging my takedown of your childish games, are you? Sorry, but you don't get to retreat like that and then fire off the same failed attack elsewhere.
 
Obscurity said:
Let's stop here, momentarily. 60-70%, an overwhelming majority, of all pot sold in the US is directly sourced to CALIFORNIA growers.

https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/65/8/822/240374

If that large of a majority comes from California, let's see what the Gulf Cartels are growing - Cocaine. Not Marijuana. Cocaine.


Drug trafficking » Immigration to the United States

Note the second drug; Heroin.

So no... Your assertion is not supported by the evidence. We don't need to worry about weed smuggling, since the majority of weed is already grown by American growers and smoked by American smokers.
Click to expand...

Mexico remains the most significant foreign source for marijuana in the United States. Along the Southwest Border in CY 2017, U.S. Customs and Border Protection seized nearly 500,000 kilograms of marijuana in approximately 20,000 incidents.
Im not against pot but the idea that legalization hurts the cartels I think remains to be seen and I wouldn't move forward until I see those results.
 
Anthony60 said:
You are quite the source of amusement, that's why I even bother engaging you on your journeys. It's always interesting on how you will misdirect and respond to a post.

I must say, you are very good at it. Like this post here. You are the one that asked about "people" coming here, right? Of course you don't respond to my question about who you are talking about with that term. Instead, you actually act as if it was I that asked using that very generic term.

You make the statement that I have an issue with people becoming citizens, as if that is a bad thing. Of course, you must be aware I don't want people coming here illegally and becoming citizens, but you ask anyway. You goal is to twist it around as if I don't want anyone becoming a citizen. Well done! Of course, you are not fooling me, but there are simpletons here that lap it right up.

I could go on, and on, but that's all I want to expose at this point.

Bravo!
Click to expand...

I asked you to clarify your comment, which I quoted again for you, about the Democrats wanting people to become citizens. We were talking about people, you know. Not dogs or rice. People. Did that confuse you?

You're against illegal immigration? Gee, I wouldn't have known that. Most everyone else is too, unless you can find evidence of someone on here or anywhere else saying "I encourage people to sneak over our borders". If so, please do it. Otherwise it was a stupid point, wasn't it? Because nobody was making any point that illegal immigration is swell, although I will admit that most people don't tinkle in their panties about it the way you Trump lovers do. Are you afraid of losing your toilet cleaning job to an illegal, Anthony? Is that why it worries you so much?

Simpletons? Who are these simpletons you speak of?
 
Last edited:
Anthony60 said:
Okay, so back to the little game...

No, of course everyone who wants to become a productive member of society shouldn't be able to come in. That's silly. we decide who comes in, it's not an unlimited amount.
Click to expand...

Oh, so you have a numeric limit on people becoming citizens. What is the number that's acceptable to you?
 
Hicup said:
I think a lot of people are missing the point of the wall. The problem with illegal immigration is not catching them once they arrive, which is what all this "enhanced security" nonsense is about, the wall prevents them for getting here at all. Costs go down dramatically if we can keep them out in the first place. Keeping them out with a wall, will pay for itself immeasurably over time, so much so that resources that are otherwise now being spent on processing these illegals, will now be better spent on the problem we have with the illegals that are already here.

It's simple math, and it's also a good idea to secure the border with a wall. They work, they've worked for millennia, and they work when we build them around our homes.

IMO, the democrats picked the wrong fight with Trump, overall most American's want to prevent illegal immigration, the numbers have remained consistent for decades now, hovering around 63%.

We need the wall, Trump knows it, I know it, and I think he totally made the dems own this shutdown last night!


Tim-
Click to expand...

And your plan for getting rid of the illegals who are already here is what?

No, the Dems don't own the shutdown. Trump does, unless you're calling him a liar? The rest of us heard him say he owns it.
 
Phys251 said:
Dodging my takedown of your childish games, are you? Sorry, but you don't get to retreat like that and then fire off the same failed attack elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Believe me no one is "dodging" you. But when you make ridiculous statements, like the one above, you can't be taken seriously.

I mean, for Christ's sake, I wasn't even responding to your ridiculous post, it was another.
 
Anthony60 said:
Believe me no one is "dodging" you. But when you make ridiculous statements, like the one above, you can't be taken seriously.

I mean, for Christ's sake, I wasn't even responding to your ridiculous post, it was another.
Click to expand...
:lamo

You're running. Running from when I said this:

Phys251 said:
:lamo

Oh, where to begin with that trash post.

Let me repost both tres's comments and your response so that you may very clearly see them with your own eyes. (Apologies to tres for blowing up her "replies" count, as this isn't her fault.)

Tres said this:



This is not an endorsement of illegal immigration in any way, shape, or form. This is a clear reference to people who want to become citizens of the United States but do not have the legal means to do it. There is simply no other way to interpret tres's post.

You, on the other hand, said this:



That response was straight-up "When will you stop beating your wife?" dishonesty. Tres NEVER even suggested such a thing. You deliberately and intentionally put those words into her mouth. Your pathetic unwillingness to practice either basic reading comprehension or intellectual honesty is why we are stuck at the level of discussion that we are at. This is your problem 100% and Tres's 0%. Get over it already.
Click to expand...

You ignored that and then tried to continue your dishonest games. Sorry, that's not how this works. Now come clean and admit that you deliberately and intentionally twisting Tres's words to suit your agenda. Then maybe, just maybe, you might have a chance at restoring your credibility.
 
tres borrachos said:
And your plan for getting rid of the illegals who are already here is what?

No, the Dems don't own the shutdown. Trump does, unless you're calling him a liar? The rest of us heard him say he owns it.
Click to expand...


Well, since you asked, I'm actually for keeping the illegals that are already here provided that they register with authorities within 6 months, begin the legal process of becoming either a US citizen or permanent resident, (something I had to do back in 1998), undergo a background check to see if they have committed any crimes of turpitude, and if not, be given a free and clear path. Of course those that have committed crimes will not register, and thus an incentive to those that are trying to gain citizenship will be given a "fast-track", free ride if they give information leading to the arrest of illegals that have committed crimes, upon a conviction. Those that have committed crimes deported immediately if they've answered for those crimes, and served time, but for those that have not, they will have to serve their time and then be deported.

I'm under the assumption that MOST illegals, notwithstanding the initial crime of entering here illegally, are good people, willing to work hard for themselves and their families, and I think most American's acknowledge this, and they SHOULD have a way to be able to stay. What we don't want, and what we need is a way to find the really bad illegals, and this approach solves that problem over time.


Tim-
 
Hicup said:
Well, since you asked, I'm actually for keeping the illegals that are already here provided that they register with authorities within 6 months, begin the legal process of becoming either a US citizen or permanent resident, (something I had to do back in 1998), undergo a background check to see if they have committed any crimes of turpitude, and if not, be given a free and clear path. Of course those that have committed crimes will not register, and thus an incentive to those that are trying to gain citizenship will be given a "fast-track", free ride if they give information leading to the arrest of illegals that have committed crimes, upon a conviction. Those that have committed crimes deported immediately if they've answered for those crimes, and served time, but for those that have not, they will have to serve their time and then be deported.

I'm under the assumption that MOST illegals, notwithstanding the initial crime of entering here illegally, are good people, willing to work hard for themselves and their families, and I think most American's acknowledge this, and they SHOULD have a way to be able to stay. What we don't want, and what we need is a way to find the really bad illegals, and this approach solves that problem over time.


Tim-
Click to expand...

Of course those who commit crimes should be deported. I don't know who would argue with that.

So you support a path to citizenship then?
 
tres borrachos said:
And your plan for getting rid of the illegals who are already here is what?

No, the Dems don't own the shutdown. Trump does, unless you're calling him a liar? The rest of us heard him say he owns it.
Click to expand...

He owns it only in as much as he ran on it.. Ya know, building a wall, and it got him elected. It was kinda his thing, if memory serves.. :)

What he doesn't own, is the dems willingness to keep the border unsecured over political hatred of him. The government has been promising to secure the border for about as long as I have lived, and done nothing tangible to accomplish this over that time. Trump, said, ok, well, this TIME, it's going to get done. No more promises of give us what we want now and we'll think about it later. The wall or no deal!

That's on the dems!

Tim-
 
tres borrachos said:
I asked you to clarify your comment, which I quoted again for you, about the Democrats wanting people to become citizens. We were talking about people, you know. Not dogs or rice. People. Did that confuse you?

You're against illegal immigration? Gee, I wouldn't have known that. Most everyone else is too, unless you can find evidence of someone on here or anywhere else saying "I encourage people to sneak over our borders". If so, please do it. Otherwise it was a stupid point, wasn't it? Because nobody was making any point that illegal immigration is swell, although I will admit that most people don't tinkle in their panties about it the way you Trump lovers do. Are you afraid of losing your toilet cleaning job to an illegal, Anthony? Is that why it worries you so much?

Simpletons? Who are these simpletons you speak of?
Click to expand...

Wow, you don't even break character. Very good. You just stay in it, pretending you don't know the meaning, all kind of innocent... gee willickers, no one wants illegal immigration (LOL)! Because, it must be stated explicitly, or else good 'ole Tres has no idea!
Okay, i get it. You stick with it, don't look directly at the camera.
 
tres borrachos said:
Of course those who commit crimes should be deported. I don't know who would argue with that.

So you support a path to citizenship then?
Click to expand...

I do, it's the only way to solve this. We can't deport entire families, and most American's, conservatives know this. It's not right, even the President understands this. much of this problem on illegal immigration is his inability to acknowledge this and articulate where he stands with regard to those that are here already. he allows the dems to paint the narrative that he's against everyone here illegally, but he's not. only the ones that are a threat or have committed crimes are the one's he wants out, and to stem or completely stop any others from coming in, in the future.


Tim-
 
Hicup said:
He owns it only in as much as he ran on it.. Ya know, building a wall, and it got him elected. It was kinda his thing, if memory serves.. :)

What he doesn't own, is the dems willingness to keep the border unsecured over political hatred of him. The government has been promising to secure the border for about as long as I have lived, and done nothing tangible to accomplish this over that time. Trump, said, ok, well, this TIME, it's going to get done. No more promises of give us what we want now and we'll think about it later. The wall or no deal!

That's on the dems!

Tim-
Click to expand...

No, he owns it because he announced it in front of the cameras in December. He didn't run on the shutdown.

Yes, he did run on the wall - the one he promised Mexico would pay for, if memory serves.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom