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Trump inclined to declare national emergency if talks continue to stall

trouble13 said:
Sure they do.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-approves-spending-bill-with-5b-for-border-wall

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No, they don't. The spending bill that was passed has zero details. It literally just says "$x for wall funding". There's no plan, there's no elaboration on what any of that means. Claiming they've put forward anything of substance is completely disingenuous. There's nothing for the Democrats to agree upon or disagree upon.
 
Bucky said:
Democrats can end this any day.....any day. They refuse to re-open the government.
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So Trump lied once again, saying he would take credit for the shutdown? They have a deal on the table that Trump indicated he might sign til he heard from the Limbaugh/Coulter axis of idiocy.

This whole thing sounds like something out of Dr. Strangelove or The Mouse That Roared. A grown up, a person who can presumably go to the bathroom by himself, is shutting down a government for a wall, having presented no study (have there even been hearings?) that this vanity project is more effective than other efforts to deal with illegal immigration, including other barriers that Congress has funded. And of course immigration had been declining when Trump started his racist-leaning rants about rapists pouring over our borders. And we are pretending this argument makes sense. Trump was right about one thing: the world is laughing at us.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
No, they don't. The spending bill that was passed has zero details. It literally just says "$x for wall funding". There's no plan, there's no elaboration on what any of that means. Claiming they've put forward anything of substance is completely disingenuous. There's nothing for the Democrats to agree upon or disagree upon.
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Just so I understand your position. Clarify for me. If trump told you he was building a 30' wall coast to coast and it submitted in a way that every penny was accounted for how it will be spent. You would support the allocation of the funds even though you may not agree with the exspendur and conversely going forward I can count on you support Republican opposition to any bill the Democrats propose that does not explain how each and every penny will be spent?

Your argument has nothing to do with partisanship it based solely on this fiscal principle your espousing. Yes?

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trouble13 said:
Just so I understand your position. Clarify for me. If trump told you he was building a 30' wall coast to coast and it submitted in a way that every penny was accounted for how it will be spent. You would support the allocation of the funds even though you may not agree with the exspendur and conversely going forward I can count on you support Republican opposition to any bill the Democrats propose that does not explain how each and every penny will be spent?

Your argument has nothing to do with partisanship it based solely on this fiscal principle your espousing. Yes?

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No I'm not saying that at all. What I'm clearly saying is that Republicans have shut the government down and they can't even explain why or what they want. Saying you want "$5.7 billion for a wall along the border" means absolutely nothing. It's literally just a soundbite. Where are the funds going to be allocated? Who is going to be in charge of them? What are the details that constrain the spending to actually what is intended? Where is the wall going to be built? Where are the cost estimate reports that back up this claim of $5.7 billion?

You don't appropriate funds based on a single sentence. Republicans can't seem to explain beyond their single sentence soundbite what their plan actually is here, because they have none. Trump and the GOP have all admitted they're only keeping the government shut down because Trump can't "lose" and needs the "leverage". This isn't about the border, it's about Trump's ego. Which is why you won't see any kind of coherent proposal for an actual wall on the border.

Once Republicans actually propose something, that is when Democrats can respond. That's how government works. One side brings something to the table, and both sides negotiate over it. There hasn't been any negotiation because Republicans refuse to actually say what it is that they're trying to negotiate over. Democrats aren't going to approve funding for something that Republicans can't even explain.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
No I'm not saying that at all. What I'm clearly saying is that Republicans have shut the government down and they can't even explain why or what they want. Saying you want "$5.7 billion for a wall along the border" means absolutely nothing. It's literally just a soundbite. Where are the funds going to be allocated? Who is going to be in charge of them? What are the details that constrain the spending to actually what is intended? Where is the wall going to be built? Where are the cost estimate reports that back up this claim of $5.7 billion?

You don't appropriate funds based on a single sentence. Republicans can't seem to explain beyond their single sentence soundbite what their plan actually is here, because they have none. Trump and the GOP have all admitted they're only keeping the government shut down because Trump can't "lose" and needs the "leverage". This isn't about the border, it's about Trump's ego. Which is why you won't see any kind of coherent proposal for an actual wall on the border.

Once Republicans actually propose something, that is when Democrats can respond. That's how government works. One side brings something to the table, and both sides negotiate over it. There hasn't been any negotiation because Republicans refuse to actually say what it is that they're trying to negotiate over. Democrats aren't going to approve funding for something that Republicans can't even explain.
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I wont argue with your point there. I'm not sure if what you're saying is true or not but I do agree spending Bill's need to be explpained.

It's odd that I dont hear your argument from the democratic party

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trouble13 said:
I wont argue with your point there. I'm not sure if what you're saying is true or not but I do agree spending Bill's need to be explpained.

It's odd that I dont hear your argument from the democratic party

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I remember Pelosi saying it very early on, maybe in her interview with Joy Reid, that Republicans haven't brought a bill, and that the shutdown has nothing to do with the wall funding. IIRC she said if he was interested in actually getting something he should open up the government and then submit an actual proposal for congress to discuss because that's how government works. All paraphrasing but it was the same point.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
I remember Pelosi saying it very early on, maybe in her interview with Joy Reid, that Republicans haven't brought a bill, and that the shutdown has nothing to do with the wall funding. IIRC she said if he was interested in actually getting something he should open up the government and then submit an actual proposal for congress to discuss because that's how government works. All paraphrasing but it was the same point.
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I can say that I would be more sympathetic to her position if she were making that argument now.

I agree that within reason, it's a reasonable expectation for Congress to want to see some kind of plan on how the money was planning on being used.

I actually had a similar complaint about the 800B stimulus package that Obama was given. It was vauge on details on how it would be used and that's a luxury that neither party should have. Even if they spend the money well and intentions are good. Congress has a responsibility to be able to account for the money being spent. The FTC that they borrow 40% of what they spend makes it all the most important.

In short I will concede that if it's TRUE that Trump is asking for a money without accounting for how it will be spent. I share in the criticism of that.

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Khayembii Communique said:
I remember Pelosi saying it very early on, maybe in her interview with Joy Reid, that Republicans haven't brought a bill, and that the shutdown has nothing to do with the wall funding. IIRC she said if he was interested in actually getting something he should open up the government and then submit an actual proposal for congress to discuss because that's how government works. All paraphrasing but it was the same point.
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Remember when, under Obama, the buck stopped at the top, and Obama was constantly blasted for not "leading" congress? Amazing how that changed once Trump took office.
 
Chomsky said:
Yep, agreed.

What I like about you my friend, is you see the big picture, and zone-in on other critical details outside of the thrust of the political debate.

I'm at a loss as to why the Dems are not bringing up the eminent domain issues. Coincidently, a border land owner was just on CNN, heatedly proclaiming the land owners he knows do not want the government seizing their land. He was pretty excited about this.
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If I read the Dems strategy accurately, they are keeping it simple. Pelosi is the only challenger of Trump's stupid ideas he doesn't attack personally like "Crying Chuck" etc. and they must know the reason.

Also, this has become an historic fight, it will solidify Trump in the history books. Unless he can bring about a total world wide disarmament of nukes, this will be his signature. Future students of history will be paring his insane stance on a "wall" for centuries to come.

He is now the shut down president.
 
Fearandloathing said:
If I read the Dems strategy accurately, they are keeping it simple. Pelosi is the only challenger of Trump's stupid ideas he doesn't attack personally like "Crying Chuck" etc. and they must know the reason.

Also, this has become an historic fight, it will solidify Trump in the history books. Unless he can bring about a total world wide disarmament of nukes, this will be his signature. Future students of history will be paring his insane stance on a "wall" for centuries to come.

He is now the shut down president.
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When it comes to political messaging, the rule is:

"the simpler the better"

I think her line of, "Open the government back up, we can discuss security", is pretty effective.

She seems to be a much more effective cat-herder than John Boehner ever was.
 
Chomsky said:
When it comes to political messaging, the rule is:

"the simpler the better"

I think her line of, "Open the government back up, we can discuss security", is pretty effective.

She seems to be a much more effective cat-herder than John c ever was.
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Boener is a classic cardboard cut out of an American politician. Never stand out too much, keep things out of the media etc.

Pelosi comes from a family of professional politicis, dad and uncle were popular mayors etc. She is at least 25 times smarter than Trump - who I suspect is actually learning disabled (more on that another time) and she has virtually nothing personal to lose.

She raise five kids and has seven grand kids, as such she has the perfect resume to run a day care....which is what the White House has become.

They, Trump and Pelosi go way back, he has contributed to her campaigns in the past. I believe he is afraid of her, he cannot stand strong people standing up to him and his very world view is that men are superior to women and women and they have ONE purpose.

She is the perfect foil.

Where it will get ugly and Pelosi will take a hind seat when this comes, but when the true extent of Trump's dealings with Putin come out ...the more I watch this, the more I see his man crush on Putin is his albatross.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Boener is a classic cardboard cut out of an American politician. Never stand out too much, keep things out of the media etc.

Pelosi comes from a family of professional politicis, dad and uncle were popular mayors etc. She is at least 25 times smarter than Trump - who I suspect is actually learning disabled (more on that another time) and she has virtually nothing personal to lose.

She raise five kids and has seven grand kids, as such she has the perfect resume to run a day care....which is what the White House has become.

They, Trump and Pelosi go way back, he has contributed to her campaigns in the past. I believe he is afraid of her, he cannot stand strong people standing up to him and his very world view is that men are superior to women and women and they have ONE purpose.

She is the perfect foil.

Where it will get ugly and Pelosi will take a hind seat when this comes, but when the true extent of Trump's dealings with Putin come out ...the more I watch this, the more I see his man crush on Putin is his albatross.
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Along with the lies and deception, that will either contribute or on its own bring him down.

It is not necessarily illegal to lie, but it is indeed illegal to lie when it is! ;)
 
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