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Thread: Ocasio-Cortez floats 70 percent tax on the super wealthy to fund Green New Deal

  1. #371
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    Re: Ocasio-Cortez floats 70 percent tax on the super wealthy to fund Green New Deal





    The Fix
    Analysis
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s very bad defense of her falsehoods
    In a "60 Minutes" interview, the freshman Democratic star said there's "a lot of people more concerned about being precisely, factually and semantically correct than about being morally right."


    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Ocasio-Cortez floats 70 percent tax on the super wealthy to fund Green New Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post




    The Fix
    Analysis
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s very bad defense of her falsehoods
    In a "60 Minutes" interview, the freshman Democratic star said there's "a lot of people more concerned about being precisely, factually and semantically correct than about being morally right."


    I'd like to hear her justification for what is moral, where it comes from and from whence are we endowed with it.
    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

  3. #373
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    Re: Ocasio-Cortez floats 70 percent tax on the super wealthy to fund Green New Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    No, I'm not confusing anything.

    According to IRS data for 2015, the top 0.1% of taxpayers had 10.19% of the total AGI of $10.14 trillion. That's over a trillion dollars in income. My suggestion was that if one raised the taxes of this group only, that would raise over $100 billion dollars that can be used to do some important things. Right-wingers scoff at a mere $100 billion but I remind them that they were willing to privatize Medicare, a measure that would do much harm, to save $42 billion.

    Even if a single-payer system cost $3 trillion a year, the United States already pays $3.2 trillion in health insurance, not including what the government shells out. Thus, there is plenty of money available. What do I care if I pay more taxes to the government and then I don't have to pay insurance companies?
    We’re finally starting to get to the root of this. Progressives need to be honest and transpararent about what it takes to sustain the multi-trillion dollar programs they advocate for and “tax the rich!” is not an honest answer. These programs require an enormous tax burden for everyone. And there are plenty of reasons why people care. Number one being that the cost comparison is not a wash. The $3.2 trillion figure is largely a sum of out of pocket costs paid by the individuals who received the service. Spreading those costs out to be shared by everyone in single payer would make that system far more expensive than the current environment for many people.

  4. #374
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    Re: Ocasio-Cortez floats 70 percent tax on the super wealthy to fund Green New Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    I'd like to hear her justification for what is moral, where it comes from and from whence are we endowed with it.
    And why should you believe what she says?
    From the link in #371:

    ". . . What might be most problematic about Ocasio-Cortez’s defense, though, is the idea that people should care less about specific facts and more about being “morally right" — as if this is a zero-sum game in which the two can be weighed against one another. She’s practically saying, “Well, maybe I was wrong, but at least my cause is just.”
    But this is the slipperiest of slopes — the kind of attitude you can use to justify pretty much anything to yourself. And it also just so happens to be the underlying ethos of the entire Trump presidency. . . ."
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Educator Obscurity's Avatar
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    Re: Ocasio-Cortez floats 70 percent tax on the super wealthy to fund Green New Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    And why should you believe what she says?
    From the link in #371:
    calls Trump a racist in ’60 Minutes’ inte

    ". . . What might be most problematic about Ocasio-Cortez’s defense, though, is the idea that people should care less about specific facts and more about being “morally right" — as if this is a zero-sum game in which the two can be weighed against one another. She’s practically saying, “Well, maybe I was wrong, but at least my cause is just.”
    But this is the slipperiest of slopes — the kind of attitude you can use to justify pretty much anything to yourself. And it also just so happens to be the underlying ethos of the entire Trump presidency. . . ."
    No one said I'd believe what she says. I'd like to hear it, because I have a special interest in people's views of morality, and where it comes from. It's a fascinating point for me, and I want to hear it from anyone and everyone - AOC included, right alongside Trump, Pence, and anyone else that would discuss the point.
    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

  6. #376
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    Re: Ocasio-Cortez floats 70 percent tax on the super wealthy to fund Green New Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    No one said I'd believe what she says. I'd like to hear it, because I have a special interest in people's views of morality, and where it comes from. It's a fascinating point for me, and I want to hear it from anyone and everyone - AOC included, right alongside Trump, Pence, and anyone else that would discuss the point.
    As you wish. Speaking only for myself, I don't believe a liar can have a view of interest to me.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Ocasio-Cortez floats 70 percent tax on the super wealthy to fund Green New Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    As you wish. Speaking only for myself, I don't believe a liar can have a view of interest to me.
    Calling Trump a racist isn't exactly an untrue statement, however. Trump has said plenty of racist things and acted in a racist way when dealing with American Indians in Atlantic City, as well as the various issues he had with race when it came to being a landlord.

    Calling her a liar for labeling im a racist is disingenuous. There is something there to his latent racism.
    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

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    Re: Ocasio-Cortez floats 70 percent tax on the super wealthy to fund Green New Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    No, I'm not confusing anything.

    According to IRS data for 2015, the top 0.1% of taxpayers had 10.19% of the total AGI of $10.14 trillion. That's over a trillion dollars in income. My suggestion was that if one raised the taxes of this group only, that would raise over $100 billion dollars that can be used to do some important things. Right-wingers scoff at a mere $100 billion but I remind them that they were willing to privatize Medicare, a measure that would do much harm, to save $42 billion.

    Even if a single-payer system cost $3 trillion a year, the United States already pays $3.2 trillion in health insurance, not including what the government shells out. Thus, there is plenty of money available. What do I care if I pay more taxes to the government and then I don't have to pay insurance companies?

    I admit, that does get me thinking.



    Just wish I had more faith in Democrats to come up with a plan that would do single payer in a fiscally responsible manner by also tackling medical and prescription drug costs and not just give us a bloated, behemouth government program full of inefficiencies.
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    Nevertheless people should be cautious in doubting Buzzfeed's journalistic chops.

  9. #379
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    Re: Ocasio-Cortez floats 70 percent tax on the super wealthy to fund Green New Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    I asked for the link and you didn't provide it.

    Moreover, $70 billion isn't chicken feed and if it only effects 0.05% of households, that's a good thing.
    Sure I did; Its from their fact checker, Glenn Kessler.

    https://twitter.com/GlennKesslerWP/s...21370520375296

    He's since updated the tweet with an article, but its under a paywall(although refreshing seemed to make it work for me )

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.c731f76ae62e

    In 2016, the latest year for which government data is available, approximately 16,000 Americans earned more than $10 million each. These are not in fact “the 1 percent” many on the left like to talk about — they are a much smaller slice, fewer than 0.05 percent of all U.S. households.


    It’s difficult to estimate precisely how much more in taxes the government could wring from this ultra-elite. Collectively, their total taxable income amounted to $405 billion in 2016, and they paid about $121 billion in federal income taxes. They also face state and local taxes, which raise their overall tax burdens.

    If this entire pool was taxed at 70 percent instead of the 39.6 percent they paid in 2016, the federal government would bring in an additional $72 billion annually
    So these 16,000 people would have their effective tax rates risen from 29.87% to 47.65%

    Her Green Deal plan is north of 3 trillion a year, so she's got to find at least another 2.92 trillion in taxes.
    Last edited by Samhain; 01-07-19 at 03:59 PM.

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    Re: Ocasio-Cortez floats 70 percent tax on the super wealthy to fund Green New Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscurity View Post
    Calling Trump a racist isn't exactly an untrue statement, however. Trump has said plenty of racist things and acted in a racist way when dealing with American Indians in Atlantic City, as well as the various issues he had with race when it came to being a landlord.

    Calling her a liar for labeling im a racist is disingenuous. There is something there to his latent racism.
    I made no reference to her statement calling Trump a racist, and it does not figure in my view.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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