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[W:296] Trump lies to US troops about pay increases during visit to Iraq military base

Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

Military pay is based on ECI(Employment Cost Index). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_cost_index Congress can override that, but rarely does. In this case, they did override it. However, it is important to note that the pay raise Trump proposed was the one based on ECI, and would have resulted in a smaller pay raise(~25 % less). So not only is Trump claiming something that is not true, but he is also taking credit for something he opposed.

And I personally think the military should get a very large payraise(close to the 10 % Trump claimed, and then base future raises on cost of living changes instead of ECI. This helps give them a pay rate that is closer to what they should be paid, and future pay raises keep them from falling behind the inflation curve. Note, pay raises are still pay raises when inflation is higher, no matter how you might like to spin it. Those pay raises below cost of living increases result in lower spending power, but are still raises. Words and phrases do have meaning.
It's way more complicated than that. Several allowances and COLA items are figured in, plus the member's time in service and pay grade is figured in and he may receive bonuses for certain skills. Also flight pay, sea pay, submarine duty, hazardous duty and time in combat zones also figure in the amount he receives.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

Yes, Trump lies, and definitely lied about this. Anything else?
So, don't cash your check in protest.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

It's way more complicated than that. Several allowances and COLA items are figured in, plus the member's time in service and pay grade is figured in and he may receive bonuses for certain skills. Also flight pay, sea pay, submarine duty, hazardous duty and time in combat zones also figure in the amount he receives.

Ok, time to define terminology:

Annual Pay raise: Across the board percentage based increase to pay scale. it is based strictly on ECI, though congress can change the rate. The last one had bipartisan support for a higher pay raise than ECI.
Pay scale: this is what determines how much a servicemember actually makes. It includes such things as pay grade, time in service, SRBs(do they still do those?), special pays(I got flight deck pay, sea pay, and whatever it was called for being in a war zone).
Total compensation: however much pay you get from the pay scale, plus other forms of compensation such as per diem, BAS, BAH, and so forth.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

Ok, time to define terminology:

Annual Pay raise: Across the board percentage based increase to pay scale. it is based strictly on ECI, though congress can change the rate. The last one had bipartisan support for a higher pay raise than ECI.
Pay scale: this is what determines how much a servicemember actually makes. It includes such things as pay grade, time in service, SRBs(do they still do those?), special pays(I got flight deck pay, sea pay, and whatever it was called for being in a war zone).
Total compensation: however much pay you get from the pay scale, plus other forms of compensation such as per diem, BAS, BAH, and so forth.[/QUOTE So you just agreed with me. It is a LOT more complicated than just applying an ECI.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

Which is why I think Trump actually believed what he was saying. I think he is functionally delusional.

It's just as likely that Trump knew it was a lie but 10% sounds better than 2% and he doesn't care if it is not true. Trump always says what he thinks make him look best without any other concern.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

So you just agreed with me. It is a LOT more complicated than just applying an ECI.

No, I did not. I agree that total compensation is alot more complicated, and determining pay scales. The annual raise is straightforward, with a percentage based on ECI being approved or overridden by congress.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

No, I did not. I agree that total compensation is alot more complicated, and determining pay scales. The annual raise is straightforward, with a percentage based on ECI being approved or overridden by congress.
So, doesn't that imply ECI really isn't much more than a suggestion? Are the bonuses and allowances you mention determined by EC

ETA: When I read BLS information on ECI it only refers to private employers, I see no reference to it's use in military pay. Do you have a reference?
 
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Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

It must be horrible to have to twist yourself up in knots to make excuses every time Trump speaks.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

So, it's been nine years since they got a raise BIGGER then the 2.6% Trump is giving them. And last year's was the SECOND HIGHEST in those nine years. But Trump lies! :twisted:

Did Trump say it was 10%?


So, you have nothing. Just more defense of the indefensible. Got it.

Pretty much!
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

So, doesn't that imply ECI really isn't much more than a suggestion?

Not really. Outside of exceptional events, ECI is what determines military annual pay raises. While the last one was exceptional, it was not because of Trump, but a bipartisan group of congress.

Are the bonuses and allowances you mention determined by EC

I do not think so(and am in a hurry so not going to search it out. When I served, my flight deck and sea pay did not change, nor did ComRats.

ETA: When I read BLS information on ECI it only refers to private employers, I see no reference to it's use in military pay. Do you have a reference?

Or course: https://militarypay.defense.gov/Pay/Basic-Pay/AnnualPayRaise/

Annual military pay raises are linked to the increase in private sector wages, as measured by the Employment Cost Index (ECI). In the 1990's, the annual military pay raise was capped at one-half percent below private-sector growth unless specifically granted a larger increase by Congress. The FY2000 National Defense Authorization Act directed that pay raises for 2000 through 2006 would automatically be one-half percent above the private-sector wage increases. Pay raises beginning in 2007 are equal to the increase in the ECI. Pay raises may exceed these automatic levels if authorized and funded by Congress.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

[FONT="]This guy is a true pathological liar. He just can’t help himself.

[URL="http://https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-military-pay-raise-increase-iraq-troops-visit-al-asad-air-base-a8701101.html%3Famp"]Trump lied to troops about pay increase during Iraq visit[/URL]

President Donald Trump has falsely claimed to troops that he gave them their first pay rise in more than 10 years – and greatly exaggerated the size of the increase.

Mr Trump made the statement to troops in Iraq on Wednesday after arriving late on Christmas Day.

“You protect us, we are always going to protect you,” Mr Trump said during his visit to Al Asad airbase. “And you just saw that, ’cause you just got one of the biggest pay raises you’ve ever received. You haven’t gotten one in more than 10 years. More than 10 years. And we got you a big one. I got you a big one. I got you a big one.”

Military pay has increased each year for more than three decades, with a 2.4 per cent increase in 2018. The 2019 National Defence Authorisation Act brought a 2.6 per cent increase. That most recent raise is the largest in the last nine years.[/FONT]

Stars and Stripes said the same thing!! More President Trump hate going on here?


Senate approves defense spending bill, which includes servicemember pay boost

https://www.stripes.com/news/senate-approves-defense-spending-bill-which-includes-servicemember-pay-boost-1.544019

By CLAUDIA GRISALES | STARS AND STRIPES Published: August 23, 2018

WASHINGTON — The Senate on Thursday approved a massive spending bill that would direct more than $670 billion toward a wave of Defense Department increases, [U]including the largest boost to servicemembers’ pay in nearly a decade[/U] and new gains in the number of troops, equipment and weapons for the 2019 fiscal year.

The measure, which was part of a larger funding package of more than $850 billion, will fund priorities directed in the recently passed 2019 National Defense Authorization Act, which directs policy and spending plans for the Defense Department.

The Senate voted 85 to 7 to pass the legislation, with some lawmakers absent, including Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, who is battling brain cancer.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

Here's the actual history of military pay raises Several years with "raises" barely keeping up with inflation, if that. So, does a "raise" mean an increase in wage to keep up with inflation or getting more pay in inflation adjusted terms. Many folks on the left, or at least those on the LOONY LEFT, whine that wages have stagnated even though BLS tells us average wage has consistently grown by 2-3%.
Trump may have confused his facts but calling him a liar is just a tad of exaggeration.

No, a cost of living adjustment is not a raise.

2-3% increase is stagnant because that's roughly keeping pace with inflation.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

So, you have nothing. Just more defense of the indefensible. Got it.
What do you want? I showed the two highest raises in the last nine years came under Trump and for several years prior to that they got a tiny pittance of a raise. And yet your cling to "Trump!:twisted:" a your total point.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

No, a cost of living adjustment is not a raise.

2-3% increase is stagnant because that's roughly keeping pace with inflation.
Yep, my point exactly. They saw a tiny amount more in their checks and faced higher prices on the outside.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

What do you want? I showed the two highest raises in the last nine years came under Trump and for several years prior to that they got a tiny pittance of a raise. And yet your cling to "Trump!:twisted:" a your total point.

If you think that’s the point of the op, then you are seriously lacking in the reading comprehension department. Trump LIED to the troops when he said that he gave them a 10% raise. What do I want? I want you to act like a man, and admit that Trump lied; instead all I’m seeing from you is deflections — and weak ones at that. How pathetic.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

Who knew 10% is equal to 2.6%.

He really needs to pay attention to briefings and get his information straight otherwise he looks like a fool.

And I need to learn to dunk a basketball at age 69.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

Here's the actual history of military pay raises Several years with "raises" barely keeping up with inflation, if that. So, does a "raise" mean an increase in wage to keep up with inflation or getting more pay in inflation adjusted terms. Many folks on the left, or at least those on the LOONY LEFT, whine that wages have stagnated even though BLS tells us average wage has consistently grown by 2-3%.
Trump may have confused his facts but calling him a liar is just a tad of exaggeration.
“They said: ‘You know, we could make it smaller. We could make it 3 percent. We could make it 2 percent. We could make it 4 percent.’ I said: ‘No. Make it 10 percent. Make it more than 10 percent. Because it’s been a long time. It’s been more than 10 years. That’s a long time. And, you know, you really put yourselves out there, and you put your lives out there. So congratulations.”

https://www.inquisitr.com/5224717/t...gave-them-a-ten-percent-pay-raise-he-did-not/

He is not just a liar he is the consummate liar.

I am curious, if he was in the private sector and told everyone on record that he was giving them a 10% raise...would he be personally accountable to make that happen?
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

What do you want? I showed the two highest raises in the last nine years came under Trump and for several years prior to that they got a tiny pittance of a raise. And yet your cling to "Trump!:twisted:" a your total point.

I don't think that's the point.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

What do you want? I showed the two highest raises in the last nine years came under Trump and for several years prior to that they got a tiny pittance of a raise. And yet your cling to "Trump!:twisted:" a your total point.

Now, if I understood your link correctly.......

What happened in 2009, and 2010? Why were the raise percentages so high back then? To which great president should we applaud for those kind of military pay raises? C'mon. You can say it. "Praise be to Obama!" Right?!?!? (I bet you ckoked on that one. LOL!) Obama pay raises beat the hell out of Trump's according to your link. I don't hear you singing Obama praises. To which majority party in the House of Representatives do we owe our gratitude to? Oh my! It was those evil democrats giving our soldier's those pay increases!

Incidentially, what is the significance of "nine years?" Why not 10? 11? 12? 20?

And, looking at the link you provided regarding military pay (thank you, by the way,) why, oh why, the drop off in military pay increases in 2011? Ker-plunk! Could it possibly be that Obama lost his house? Could it possibly be that the GOP took the majority?

Say it isn't so!

It would be interesting to know the historical rates of military pay increases in co-relation to which majority occupied the house and senate during the up years vs. the down years. I think we might all be surprised.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

Now, if I understood your link correctly.......

What happened in 2009, and 2010? Why were the raise percentages so high back then? To which great president should we applaud for those kind of military pay raises? C'mon. You can say it. "Praise be to Obama!" Right?!?!? (I bet you ckoked on that one. LOL!) Obama pay raises beat the hell out of Trump's according to your link. I don't hear you singing Obama praises. To which majority party in the House of Representatives do we owe our gratitude to? Oh my! It was those evil democrats giving our soldier's those pay increases!

Incidentially, what is the significance of "nine years?" Why not 10? 11? 12? 20?

And, looking at the link you provided regarding military pay (thank you, by the way,) why, oh why, the drop off in military pay increases in 2011? Ker-plunk! Could it possibly be that Obama lost his house? Could it possibly be that the GOP took the majority?

Say it isn't so!

It would be interesting to know the historical rates of military pay increases in co-relation to which majority occupied the house and senate during the up years vs. the down years. I think we might all be surprised.

These are the kind of things that I've grown tired over. I'm not far from completely reaching my red line with this administration, but more so the man who told us he was a great negotiator, I'm not seeing negotiating as much as I'm seeing give me what I want or you're dismissed.

That said, I also wondered why the president went with the talking point that he was giving them the first pay raise they've had in a decade (not true) and that it was 10% (also not true). But like you, I looked at that chart and wondered why the cut off mark was 9 years while trying to sell 10 years? I mean yes, it's obvious that using 10 years (2008-2018) would make the last two 4th and 5th instead of 1st and 2nd.
 
Re: Shameless: Trump lies to troops about pay raises

These are the kind of things that I've grown tired over. I'm not far from completely reaching my red line with this administration, but more so the man who told us he was a great negotiator, I'm not seeing negotiating as much as I'm seeing give me what I want or you're dismissed.

That said, I also wondered why the president went with the talking point that he was giving them the first pay raise they've had in a decade (not true) and that it was 10% (also not true). But like you, I looked at that chart and wondered why the cut off mark was 9 years while trying to sell 10 years? I mean yes, it's obvious that using 10 years (2008-2018) would make the last two 4th and 5th instead of 1st and 2nd.

Well, if they used 10 years as their imaginary cut-off line, that would mean they would have to praise Obama and the democrats for something. That's against their religion I think. :roll: "Don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain."

I noticed that the past 9 years they speak of, with lower pay increases, coincide with the GOP dominance of the house.

Maybe with the democrats taking over the house again, we will get our soldier's a better pay raise. :peace
 
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