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Trump vows 'very long' government shutdown over border wall

Logician Man said:
revisit post # 3198
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Okay, in post #3198, you ask if I 'acknowledge' that Trump has lied. I'm going to assume by "lied," you in general. Yes, I have already acknowledged that Trump has lied.

Politicians need to lie; politics is too stupid of a past time for nuance.
 
Hedgology said:
Okay, in post #3198, you ask if I 'acknowledge' that Trump has lied. I'm going to assume by "lied," you in general. Yes, I have already acknowledged that Trump has lied.

Politicians need to lie; politics is too stupid of a past time for nuance.
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I meant post #3197....Moving on,to address your question, if Mexico paid for a wall, the wall would belong to Mexico, it would be their business, and I would have no problem with Mexico building their own wall.
 
gdgyva said:
Trump has stated what he wants...5b plus for his wall

Is there any offer from Pelosi or Schumer? Any offer, no matter how crazy? Nope...

Now why would that be? One side has stated in no uncertain terms exactly what they want....why wouldn’t the other side come back with a counter offer?

Makes one wonder why this shut down is still on going, and no negotiations are taking place
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Nancy offered a dollar. :roll:
 
Logician Man said:
I meant post #3197....Moving on,to address your question, if Mexico paid for a wall, the wall would belong to Mexico, it would be their business, and I would have no problem with Mexico building their own wall.
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I don't think that is how it would work, but lets assume that it is. They gave us money for a wall and we build it. What are they going to do about it?
 
Hedgology said:
I don't think that is how it would work, but lets assume that it is. They gave us money for a wall and we build it. What are they going to do about it?
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You'll have to find someone else to debate 'whataboutisms' with. Mexico has made it clear they aren't going to pay for a U.S. Wall, and quite frankly, anyone who ever thought for a second they would is a fool.
 
Logician Man said:
You'll have to find someone else to debate 'whataboutisms' with. Mexico has made it clear they aren't going to pay for a U.S. Wall, and quite frankly, anyone who ever thought for a second they would is a fool.
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We need to secure our borders no matter who ends up paying for it. We don't expect Iran to pay for our aircraft carriers either.

Oh did you know Obama promised many times he would shut down Gitmo. Its still open.
 
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Logician Man said:
You'll have to find someone else to debate 'whataboutisms' with. Mexico has made it clear they aren't going to pay for a U.S. Wall, and quite frankly, anyone who ever thought for a second they would is a fool.
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They are paying for it indirectly through tariffs. Nothing foolish about that.
 
Logician Man said:
I see you believe everything POTUS feeds you. That is sad.
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Government collects taxes; government levies tariffs on competiting countries; government spents tax revenue on projects (discretionary, vanity, or whatever), wall gets built.

What part about that process do you disagree with?
 
SLC said:
And you disbelieve everything he says that is sadder. :(
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I see your only argument is to put words in other's mouths with zero validation for doing so. I'll just accept your defeat now and save us both some time. :)
 
Hedgology said:
Government collects taxes; government levies tariffs on competiting countries; government spents tax revenue on projects (discretionary, vanity, or whatever), wall gets built.

What part about that process do you disagree with?
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Citation that Trump promised while campaigning that Mexico would pay for any wall using tariff revenues ?
 
Logician Man said:
Citation that Trump promised while campaigning that Mexico would pay for any wall using tariff revenues ?
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I never stated that Trump said that; I only stated that Mexico will be paying for the wall indirectly if congress puts the wall in the spending bill.

So the premise that Mexico will not be paying for it isn't necessarily true.
 
gdgyva said:
Trump has stated what he wants...5b plus for his wall

Is there any offer from Pelosi or Schumer? Any offer, no matter how crazy? Nope...

Now why would that be? One side has stated in no uncertain terms exactly what they want....why wouldn’t the other side come back with a counter offer?

Makes one wonder why this shut down is still on going, and no negotiations are taking place
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Ive repeatedly asked, with nothing but deflection from trump apologists, what trump is offering. He makes demands easily, and behaves like a spoiled brat (so do his worshipers) when he doesn’t get his way unconditionally, but he never offers anything in return.

At one point in the not too distant past, the Dems did offer $20B in exchange for support of permanent protections for the nearly 700,000 young undocumented immigrants covered under the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program. Trump rejected that offer.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ocrats-schumer-trump-border-wall-daca/551288/

So enough with the whines about eeevil Dems refusing to negotiate. The only one who has steadfastly refused to negotiate is trump.
 
Birdzeye said:


Ive repeatedly asked, with nothing but deflection from trump apologists, what trump is offering. He makes demands easily, and behaves like a spoiled brat (so do his worshipers) when he doesn’t get his way unconditionally, but he never offers anything in return.

At one point in the not too distant past, the Dems did offer $20B in exchange for support of permanent protections for the nearly 700,000 young undocumented immigrants covered under the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program. Trump rejected that offer.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ocrats-schumer-trump-border-wall-daca/551288/

So enough with the whines about eeevil Dems refusing to negotiate. The only one who has steadfastly refused to negotiate is trump.
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Not sure why you'd expect Trump to agree to reward people who broke the law if he is concerned about protecting the border...
 
Hedgology said:
I never stated that Trump said that; I only stated that Mexico will be paying for the wall indirectly if congress puts the wall in the spending bill.

So the premise that Mexico will not be paying for it isn't necessarily true.
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There will be nothing to pay for. Trump isn't getting his wall. It's all about him saving face now....a lost cause....
 
Hedgology said:
Not sure why you'd expect Trump to agree to reward people who broke the law if he is concerned about protecting the border...
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Huh? WTH are you babbling about?
 
Birdzeye said:
Huh? WTH are you babbling about?
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If Trump is serious about border security, Trump is not going to negotiate a deal that protects people who are breaking the law by entering the country illegally.

There is nothing cryptic or complicated about that. We owe people who are here illegally nothing..
 
Hedgology said:
If Trump is serious about border security, Trump is not going to negotiate a deal that protects people who are breaking the law by entering the country illegally.

There is nothing cryptic or complicated about that. We owe people who are here illegally nothing..
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Illogical. If trump is serious about border security, he’ll do two things. One is that he’ll move Heaven and Earth to make a deal, such as the deal the Dems previously offered but trump rejected ($20B for wall in exchange for DACA protections - I’ve already provided a link). The other is to consider other options for security rather than be fixated on the wall alone; he certainly hasn’t talked about other measures that would be necessary even with a wall, strange for a man who purportedly is so serious about border security.

And I certainly haven’t suggested that we “owe” anything to people who are here illegally.
 
Logician Man said:
I see your only argument is to put words in other's mouths with zero validation for doing so. I'll just accept your defeat now and save us both some time. :)
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Yeah sure just keep telling yourself that . :lol:
 
Birdzeye said:
Illogical. If trump is serious about border security, he’ll do two things. One is that he’ll move Heaven and Earth to make a deal, such as the deal the Dems previously offered but trump rejected ($20B for wall in exchange for DACA protections - I’ve already provided a link).
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That is a stupid deal. We can (and should) simply eliminate DACA protections and increase deportations, border apprehensions. Trump can still mitigate border crossings, and in the end he would still get his wall. Why do you think it is logical to exchange protections for individuals (who are not supposed to be here) for something that would have kept them from being here in the first place.

That negotiation was very dumb, which is why it was roundly rejected.

The other is to consider other options for security rather than be fixated on the wall alone; he certainly hasn’t talked about other measures that would be necessary even with a wall, strange for a man who purportedly is so serious about border security.
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Deportations are up; apprehensions are up; prosecutions for illegal crossings are up. What other options are there? The only other option is having none of those things, including the wall (which is probably what you would prefer).

We have yet to hear the alternative; mostly because there isn't any. Most rational-thinking people already understand that having a wall is better than not having a wall.
 
Hedgology said:
That is a stupid deal. We can (and should) simply eliminate DACA protections and increase deportations, border apprehensions. Trump can still mitigate border crossings, and in the end he would still get his wall. Why do you think it is logical to exchange protections for individuals (who are not supposed to be here) for something that would have kept them from being here in the first place.

That negotiation was very dumb, which is why it was roundly rejected.



Deportations are up; apprehensions are up; prosecutions for illegal crossings are up. What other options are there? The only other option is having none of those things, including the wall (which is probably what you would prefer).

We have yet to hear the alternative; mostly because there isn't any. Most rational-thinking people already understand that having a wall is better than not having a wall.
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So if the deal is “stupid,” then the wall idea is stupid, right?
 
Birdzeye said:


Ive repeatedly asked, with nothing but deflection from trump apologists, what trump is offering. He makes demands easily, and behaves like a spoiled brat (so do his worshipers) when he doesn’t get his way unconditionally, but he never offers anything in return.

At one point in the not too distant past, the Dems did offer $20B in exchange for support of permanent protections for the nearly 700,000 young undocumented immigrants covered under the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program. Trump rejected that offer.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ocrats-schumer-trump-border-wall-daca/551288/

So enough with the whines about eeevil Dems refusing to negotiate. The only one who has steadfastly refused to negotiate is trump.
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Trump says he is open to negations maybe its time to float the 25 billion for DACA again. Nancy only has to budge $24,999,999,999,999.00 .
 
SLC said:
Trump says he is open to negations maybe its time to float the 25 billion for DACA again. Nancy only has to budge $24,999,999,999,999.00 to go.
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Trump is open to negotiations now? Since when? Link?
 
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