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Trump vows 'very long' government shutdown over border wall

Into the Night said:
For the simple reason that I fly, build, and repair aircraft. There are many airports with no control tower at all. Planes fly in and out of them without any ATC whatsoever.

Some airports, such as KPAE, have part time towers manned by locally paid contractors, not federal employees. When the tower is closed, the airport reverts to a non-towered airport. They have jet passenger service too.

Soon to be implemented is full scale ADS-B. This means ATC will not even bother to have to talk much with pilots on instrument flights. It is conceivable that such flights could be conducted without ATC at all. ADS-B is quite capable of maintaining separation of aircraft on its own.

Obviously, you don't fly airplanes, or you would know this stuff.
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Your insane if you think you can fly passenger airliners in & out of Class B airspace like ORD or LAX, without ATC. Yes, I do question your credentials, or at the least your application of them. There's no way you could have gotten in & out of Class B without ATC, legally or physically.

You know the context of the discussion, and it's not about some hypothesis you believe may occur someday, or about flying a 172 VFR into a rural strip.
 
Conservative said:
In Two years you can nominate a replacement that will do what your previous liberal Presidents have done give you lip service to national security. You don't negotiate with a liberal and most people know that. Finally a President who doesn't give a damn about polls or what you think, he is doing his job. You don't like it, tough ****.

This is a waste of time as you are economically, civics , and historically challenged, wrong on every issue and a waste of time.
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I wondered how long it would take you to go all authoritarian on me and just like the Dems I will just say shove it. That **** don't work here and never will. We will never accept demands from a minority especially one so lame. It really is a pitiful bunch of losers.
 
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Hedgology said:
Yes, he is...
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So what is he waiting for?

Are you implying that the purpose of a wall is not to keep opossing groups and figures on the opposite side of the obstruction?
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Where did I say that?

Because we don't want to kill anyone on the opposite side of the border
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Who said anything about killing?

we just don't want them to be able to enter illegally. The purpose of a wall does just that.
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So do mine fields.

Irrelelvant; you're not addressing the argument.
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Because it exposed the flaw in your argument?

The argument is, "having seatbelts, as opposed to having no seatbelts, makes you safer."
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The argument is safety and the best way to achieve it not about how certain methods are partially effective.

What is it? Republicans have "a wall;" Democrats have ...
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Why not ask the question of which is the best way?
 
Slavister said:
Well, people that voted for the unqualified lowlife wanted chaos and disruption in Washington... So, why not...
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True, but the Dems wanted it even more than he did. I hope this time that the Dems get the blame. I am tired of the GOP taking it on the chin while the Dems high-five each otber.
 
prometeus said:
So what is he waiting for?
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For Congress to reconvine so he can take what he wants, I guess.

Where did I say that?
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I'm asking if it's what you're implying, not saying...

Who said anything about killing?
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Mine fields are deadly weapons.

So do mine fields.
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I'm not really sure what argument is: a mine-field is more effective than a wall? You're going to have to explain your train of thought.

Because it exposed the flaw in your argument?
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Airbags in side windows have nothing to do with the argment, "having seatbelts is better than having no seatbelts."

The argument is safety and the best way to achieve it not about how certain methods are partially effective.
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Whose argument? Not my argument. I clearly started what my argument is: "Seltbelts are safer than no seltbelts at all."

Again, apply that to a wall: "A wall at the southern border is better than no wall at all."

If you believe the first argument is true, why isn't the second argument. Why would a wall be just as effective as having no wall at all?

Why not ask the question of which is the best way?
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Because I want to know what their plan is. You can't argue that a wall is ineffective without a alternative plan.
 
iguanaman said:
I wondered how long it would take you to go all authoritarian on me and just like the Dems I will just say shove it. That **** don't work here and never will. We will never accept demands from a minority especially one so lame. It really is a pitiful bunch of losers.
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Trying to compromise didn't work well for GW Bush, McCain, or Romney, Trump isn't going to take your ****
 
Hedgology said:
I know what it means. I'm just asking if you've seen it...
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With questions like that, it is certainly understandable why your like to post ratio is hovering around 13 or 14 percent. :2razz:
 
Logician Man said:
With questions like that, it is certainly understandable why your like to post ratio is hovering around 13 or 14 percent. :2razz:
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Oh. And here I was thinking that I have responsibilities and couldn't be bothered to create an average of 38 post a day...

Silly me.
 
Hedgology said:
Oh. And here I was thinking that I have responsibilities and couldn't be bothered to create an average of 38 post a day...

Silly me.
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///silly me //// indeed...no argument on that one.
 
gdgyva said:
Then I guess we will have a closed government for two years

And I guess elections can kill the stalemate

I wonder how many of the 800k are willing to wait that long?
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Take it up with Trump. We all saw him tell Pelosi,Schumer, and the American people he would own the shutdown...Correct ?
 
Into the Night said:
Irrelevance fallacy. Trump is insisting on $5b for the wall in the budget before he signs a budget bill. That really is all there is to it.
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And what’s “irrelevant?”

Trump’s holding 800K federal employees’ pay hostage is just morally bankrupt. There is simply no need to do that. Fund the agencies and keep on squabbling about trump’s precious wall.
 
Logician Man said:
Take it up with Trump. We all saw him tell Pelosi,Schumer, and the American people he would own the shutdown...Correct ?
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And we later saw how god his word is. (Sarcasm)
 
Birdzeye said:
And what’s “irrelevant?”

Trump’s holding 800K federal employees’ pay hostage is just morally bankrupt. There is simply no need to do that. Fund the agencies and keep on squabbling about trump’s precious wall.
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No

Promises keep getting broken

No “I will owe you one later” deals here

Funding for wall now, or government stays shut....simple

If democrats want something for the wall, they can make an offer....
 
gdgyva said:
No

Promises keep getting broken

No “I will owe you one later” deals here

Funding for wall now, or government stays shut....simple

If democrats want something for the wall, they can make an offer....
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Trump owns the shutdown. He said so himself to the American people on national tv with Pelosi and Schumer in his office. Correct ?
 
Into the Night said:
Oddly enough, that is NOT his job. His job is to run the country on the budget that Congress and he agree to. There is no budget. He has to shut it down until there is. Trump does not have authority to allocate funds to run the government. See Articles I and II of the Constitution of the United States.

It did not contain $5b for the wall. He vetoed it as promised.
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I don't think we're looking at the constitution and seeing the same things. It's very easy to get semantic and say 'Nope that's not specifically written in there' but a lot isn't, that's why there are constitutional lawyers. Every time I read these articles it strikes me just how much Trump is avoiding or undermining his duties.

Once again I see a wide gulf between the spirit of the president's prescribed duties and his actual performance. By refusing to accept what is the will of the people (because it's so easy to pretend that polls are fake news) he is derelict. The nation and the govt to not exist to keep the president happy or give him what he wants. I would expect him to heed what the people demand, and not just the 30% who support him.

And since he promised to shut down the govt if he didn't get what he wanted and then went ahead and did so, it's on him. Not those representatives of the majority (see 2018 election results) who don't see the benefit in accommodating his pet project. After all the wall is not the only or even most efficient way to improve border security.
 
uptower said:
I don't think we're looking at the constitution and seeing the same things. It's very easy to get semantic and say 'Nope that's not specifically written in there' but a lot isn't, that's why there are constitutional lawyers. Every time I read these articles it strikes me just how much Trump is avoiding or undermining them.

Once again I see a wide gulf between the spirit of the president's prescribed duties and his actual performance. By refusing to accept what is the will of the people (because it's so easy to pretend that polls are fake news) he is derelict. The nation and the govt to not exist to keep the president happy or give him what he wants. I would expect him to heed what the people demand, and not just the 30% who support him.
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Your expectations are ridiculous and nonsensical. The only thing that matters is what people voted for him to do.
 
gdgyva said:
No

Promises keep getting broken

No “I will owe you one later” deals here

Funding for wall now, or government stays shut....simple

If democrats want something for the wall, they can make an offer....
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Yup, trump has quite a track record of breaking promises. His holding federal employees hostage is one of the most despicable things he’s done so far as POTUS. His GOP enablers are equally despicable.
 
Logician Man said:
Trump owns the shutdown. He said so himself to the American people on national tv with Pelosi and Schumer in his office. Correct ?
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And he will keep it shut down until the house and senate pass a bill with wall funding included

He has zero obligation to sign anything else

Since the majority of the federal workers are democrats, and the unions are democratically controlled....maybe Pelosi and Schumer can find something they want to trade for Trumps wall....

But right now, they don’t want to negotiate....and he doesn’t have to

And so we have this game of chicken....
 
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