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Trump vows 'very long' government shutdown over border wall

iguanaman said:
If he was "fulfilling his campaign promise" Mexico would be paying so quit saying that. He has had 2 years under GOP control to develop a coherent plan for this mythical "wall" and nothing was done. He got all he asked for in his 2018 budget until the Dems took the House and now he wants 4 billion more from the Democrats. He's not getting a dime more than he asked the Republicans for. How stupid do you think the Dems are?
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THIS is what candidate Trump promised om March 9 2016 so you need to stop saying he said Mexico would prepay for the wall. Stop lying to yourself and others.

He said this on the leading cable news program in the country. Start at 5:00

 
SLC said:
THIS is what candidate Trump promised om March 9 2016 so you need to stop saying he said Mexico would prepay for the wall. Stop lying to yourself and others.

He said this on the leading cable news program in the country. Start at 5:00
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How sharp is that hair-splitting blade?
 
Praxas said:
Sorry I don't have Trump Defense Syndrome (TDS) like you have.

And are you desputing the fact the number is not 4,000 instead of 6? Even Fox News shows how he lied. You obviously didn't read the article if you posted such a dumb comment like you did. I never trust those with Trump Defense Syndrome (TDS) to be honest.
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No you have a comprehension problem, the article I posted is about total illegal immigrant crossings, the article you post is about those on the terrorist watch list. Trump Derangement Syndrome is someone so full of hatred of Trump's personality that they totally ignore official immigration data and actual economic results.
 
Conservative said:
No you have a comprehension problem, the article I posted is about total illegal immigrant crossings, the article you post is about those on the terrorist watch list. Trump Derangement Syndrome is someone so full of hatred of Trump's personality that they totally ignore official immigration data and actual economic results.
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The OFFICIAL stats from Sarah Huckabee were that 4,000 terrorists were caught at the border when in reality 6 were caught at airports. Sorry your Trump Defense Syndrome (TDS) is getting to you. Maybe your wife can help you.
 
Into the Night said:
You assume a lot. Trump has laid down very clear conditions for opening the government. He is not shutting it down on a whim. If the Democrats can't pass an acceptable budget, he will continue to veto it.

$5b is chump change. It is 0.0125% of the federal budget.

The Democrats are doing nothing more than demonstrating they don't want a wall or border security. They WANT illegals crossing the border.
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Exactly this... And why on God's green Earth would Trump, in his right mind, give up his bargaining chip like these Democrats want him to do? He seemingly isn't as stupid as past Republicans who have given up their bargaining chips before (due to media pressure).

I caught a portion of one of those Sunday morning talk shows once, and they kept blabbing about "just re-open the government first and THEN we can 'discuss options'"... That amounts to, "give up your bargaining chip so that we can do whatever we want without having to give you anything in return"... I think Trump is smarter than that...

We're surviving just fine during this "government shutdown" like we have during all of the other past "shutdowns"... I hope that Trump doesn't yield an inch and keeps the ****er shut down as long as need be. It's hurting Dems more than anything else, and if they want to continue hurting themselves to spite their constitutional duty to secure our borders, then so be it.
 
Praxas said:
The OFFICIAL stats from Sarah Huckabee were that 4,000 terrorists were caught at the border when in reality 6 were caught at airports. Sorry your Trump Defense Syndrome (TDS) is getting to you. Maybe your wife can help you.
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Why are you so fricken bullheaded? I was taking DHS data not Huckabee's statement. This issue is TOTAL ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION CROSSINGS!!
 
iguanaman said:
The losers are 800,000 Govt. employees
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Boo hoo... Now they know what job security is like in the private sector... Oh wait, no they don't... They're still gonna see every penny of that money, while private sector employees wouldn't see any of that money...

iguanaman said:
and Trump is to blame.
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Dems are to blame. They've spent much more than $5B on each of the following: Obamacare, entitlement programs, subsidies, and bailouts...

iguanaman said:
Holding all those workers hostage
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No one is being held hostage.

iguanaman said:
to get a pet project funded
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Not a pet project; a constitutional duty of Congress...

iguanaman said:
when he does not have the votes is beyond heartless and cruel.
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He is standing up for the Constitution... I applaud him for doing so.

iguanaman said:
That is why there will be no negotiations with Nancy or Chuck until the Govt. is reopened.
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Wrong. They simply want Trump to give up his bargaining chip so that they get all the power back and don't have to negotiate with him...

iguanaman said:
What about that is too hard for you and Trump to understand?
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Trump and I understand it just fine.

iguanaman said:
If you want to talk about money for the wall then open the Govt. and pay all those workers their wages FIRST.
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No way in hell. You want Trump to give up his bargaining chip so that you get what you want without having to give ANYTHING for border security, because you don't want secure borders, since not securing borders adds to the Democrat voter list...
 
gfm7175 said:
Boo hoo... Now they know what job security is like in the private sector... Oh wait, no they don't... They're still gonna see every penny of that money, while private sector employees wouldn't see any of that money...


Dems are to blame. They've spent much more than $5B on each of the following: Obamacare, entitlement programs, subsidies, and bailouts...


No one is being held hostage.


Not a pet project; a constitutional duty of Congress...


He is standing up for the Constitution... I applaud him for doing so.


Wrong. They simply want Trump to give up his bargaining chip so that they get all the power back and don't have to negotiate with him...


Trump and I understand it just fine.


No way in hell. You want Trump to give up his bargaining chip so that you get what you want without having to give ANYTHING for border security, because you don't want secure borders, since not securing borders adds to the Democrat voter list...
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At least you admit that American workers are nothing but bargaining chips to Trump. You do know that Trump could open the Govt. and then offer something real that the Dems want badly enough to humor him with his pet project. There still will be no wall but he could get his free money. But never a penny as long as the govt. is closed.
 
SLC said:
He didn't say we would pretax Mexico. I do like remittance tax because it taxes people from Mexico , Guatemala, El Salvador , Honduras, etc. and not just Mexico alone.
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I like the idea too.

I can make a fortune receiving and forwarding money at a rate much lower than the tax the person would have to pay if they sent the money directly.

PS - Can you tell me how an "American citizen" who wanted to send money to another "American citizen" in Mexico would be exempted from the tax?

PPS - Can you tell me how you could tell that either of the "American citizens" mentioned in the PS were actually "American citizens"?
 
SLC said:
He didn't say we would pretax Mexico. I do like remittance tax because it taxes people from Mexico , Guatemala, El Salvador , Honduras, etc. and not just Mexico alone.
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There will be no tax and no wall so it's a moot point. You might ask yourself why Trump has not developed any plans or concrete proposals for this mythical wall in the 2 years since he was elected. You might also wonder why he did not include any money for it in any of his budget proposals either. Don't you think that is strange?
 
iguanaman said:
There will be no tax and no wall so it's a moot point. You might ask yourself why Trump has not developed any plans or concrete proposals for this mythical wall in the 2 years since he was elected. You might also wonder why he did not include any money for it in any of his budget proposals either. Don't you think that is strange?
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The Mexican President has just stated that "The Wall" is a "domestic American matter" and that Mexico would not involve itself in either the construction or non-construction of "The Wall".

Somehow I suspect that that is an indication that Mexico is NOT going to send the US a cheque for the cost of constructing "The Wall".

As for Mr. Trump's "assertion of fact" (for which he has provided no evidence in support) that the results of NAFTA 2.0 "will pay for 'The Wall'", he appears to have overlooked the minor fact that, of the three countries involved the only ones that have not ratified NAFTA 2.0 are Canada, Mexico, and the United States of America.

The fact that Canada and Mexico have already ratified an even bigger free trade deal (with a "market base" that is larger than the "market base" that the United States of America provides) that does not involve the United States of America is, of course, of absolutely no consequence whatsoever.
 
gfm7175 said:
Exactly this... And why on God's green Earth would Trump, in his right mind, give up his bargaining chip like these Democrats want him to do? He seemingly isn't as stupid as past Republicans who have given up their bargaining chips before (due to media pressure).
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Many republicans are beholden to the media. They essentially had no choice. Trump has something that other republicans don't have. The media didn't make him...the media can't break him. Media pressure is almost totally impotent against Trump. He can safely ignore it.
gfm7175 said:
I caught a portion of one of those Sunday morning talk shows once, and they kept blabbing about "just re-open the government first and THEN we can 'discuss options'"... That amounts to, "give up your bargaining chip so that we can do whatever we want without having to give you anything in return"... I think Trump is smarter than that...
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He is. He also knows the Democrats do not have sufficient votes to override his veto. Since the Democrats can't seem to pass a budget acceptable to Trump (or the Senate, for that matter), there is no budget to run the government with.
gfm7175 said:
We're surviving just fine during this "government shutdown" like we have during all of the other past "shutdowns"... I hope that Trump doesn't yield an inch and keeps the ****er shut down as long as need be. It's hurting Dems more than anything else, and if they want to continue hurting themselves to spite their constitutional duty to secure our borders, then so be it.
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People ARE being affected by it. TSA is just the latest round starting. How long will they function without pay? Will people really care in the end if there is no TSA? Airlines will have a choice: fly anyway or go out of business. Security will be maintained by the passengers and flight crews themselves. They know a hijacking is not just a trip to Cuba anymore.

Yes, government workers are hurting. They have no paychecks. They can either continue to whine about it or go and collect unemployement like everyone else while they look for other work. What is happening to them is no different than any private sector employee.

As people realize they can do with less government, the Democrats lose power.

Trump said he will take the blame for shutting down the government, but he has no budget to run the government by in the first place. Only the House can generate that bill, and it must be acceptable to the Senate and Trump or it will be voted down or vetoed.

Now some Democrats are trying to lay the blame of federal workers not getting paid while they are laying on a beach in Puerto Rico at some 'conference'. Kinda rings hollow...doesn't it?
 
iguanaman said:
At least you admit that American workers are nothing but bargaining chips to Trump. You do know that Trump could open the Govt. and then offer something real that the Dems want badly enough to humor him with his pet project. There still will be no wall but he could get his free money. But never a penny as long as the govt. is closed.
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Blame the House. Only the House can appropriate money to run the government. Trump will not run the government without a budget. The Democrats must create a budget bill that is acceptable to the Senate and the Trump. They do not have enough votes to override a veto.
 
Into the Night said:
Many republicans are beholden to the media. They essentially had no choice. Trump has something that other republicans don't have. The media didn't make him...the media can't break him. Media pressure is almost totally impotent against Trump. He can safely ignore it.

He is. He also knows the Democrats do not have sufficient votes to override his veto. Since the Democrats can't seem to pass a budget acceptable to Trump (or the Senate, for that matter), there is no budget to run the government with.

People ARE being affected by it. TSA is just the latest round starting. How long will they function without pay? Will people really care in the end if there is no TSA? Airlines will have a choice: fly anyway or go out of business. Security will be maintained by the passengers and flight crews themselves. They know a hijacking is not just a trip to Cuba anymore.

Yes, government workers are hurting. They have no paychecks. They can either continue to whine about it or go and collect unemployement like everyone else while they look for other work. What is happening to them is no different than any private sector employee.

As people realize they can do with less government, the Democrats lose power.

Trump said he will take the blame for shutting down the government, but he has no budget to run the government by in the first place. Only the House can generate that bill, and it must be acceptable to the Senate and Trump or it will be voted down or vetoed.

Now some Democrats are trying to lay the blame of federal workers not getting paid while they are laying on a beach in Puerto Rico at some 'conference'. Kinda rings hollow...doesn't it?
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Less government could mean no EPA ➡️ dirtier air and water, like we had before. No SEC ➡️ more investment fraud. No FDA ➡️ snake oil salesmen hawking quack medicine with impunity. I could go on. Individuals often don’t have ways to verify the claims of fraudsters, and being sold fraudulent investments or medical treatments can be devastating and life threatening. The policing by these agencies is important to the well being of the public.

if you abolish these agencies and their missions, people will suffer as a result, and when that happens, the public will be clamoring for their return.
 
iguanaman said:
There will be no tax and no wall so it's a moot point. You might ask yourself why Trump has not developed any plans or concrete proposals for this mythical wall in the 2 years since he was elected. You might also wonder why he did not include any money for it in any of his budget proposals either. Don't you think that is strange?
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The style of wall has been selected. The plans are made. Where have you been?
 
iguanaman said:
At least you admit that American workers are nothing but bargaining chips to Trump. You do know that Trump could open the Govt. and then offer something real that the Dems want badly enough to humor him with his pet project. There still will be no wall but he could get his free money. But never a penny as long as the govt. is closed.
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Trump cannot operate the government without money. The House must pass a budget bill. That bill must be acceptable to both the Senate and to Trump. The Democrats do not have enough votes to override a veto.

It really is pretty simple.
 
Into the Night said:
Trump cannot operate the government without money. The House must pass a budget bill. That bill must be acceptable to both the Senate and to Trump. The Democrats do not have enough votes to override a veto.

It really is pretty simple.
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Trump demands for his pet project are not part of the budget which has already been passed. Congress has already given him the full amount he requested in his budget for border security, 1.6 Billion. If he wants additional money he need to negotiate a deal but not while he is holding hostages.
 
Into the Night said:
Blame the House. Only the House can appropriate money to run the government. Trump will not run the government without a budget. The Democrats must create a budget bill that is acceptable to the Senate and the Trump. They do not have enough votes to override a veto.
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The House has already passed the bills needed to keep Govt. open. They are the same GOP bills that passed the Senate in December. Trump needs to agree to sign them to reopen the govt. His pet project can be negotiated later. Closing down the Govt. is not the way to negotiate. 75% of the American people blame Trump and the GOP for this sorry excuse for governing.
 
iguanaman said:
Show me the plans then. How many miles will the 5.6 billion cover? You must have dreamed this last night.
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It would cover the highest priority 50 miles based on Border Patrol's need.( Yes, I just made this up ).
 
Birdzeye said:
Less government could mean no EPA
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Good. The EPA is unconstitutional anyway. They haven't solved a single environmental issue since they were created.
Birdzeye said:
➡️ dirtier air and water, like we had before.
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Nope. Private industry has produced better cars and factories.
Birdzeye said:
No SEC ➡️ more investment fraud.
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Who cares? Trusting the SEC is not protecting from fraud. Remember the 2008 crash? Remember the dot.com crash?
Birdzeye said:
No FDA ➡️ snake oil salesmen hawking quack medicine with impunity.
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They already do. It's amazing the crap people buy into, especially in California.
Birdzeye said:
I could go on.
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Please do. Continue to list useless agencies.
Birdzeye said:
Individuals often don’t have ways to verify the claims of fraudsters, and being sold fraudulent investments or medical treatments can be devastating and life threatening.
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That's right! That was despite all these agencies supposedly providing this verification!
Birdzeye said:
The policing by these agencies is important to the well being of the public.
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Not really. The public existed and did quite well long before these agencies even existed.
Birdzeye said:
if you abolish these agencies and their missions, people will suffer as a result, and when that happens, the public will be clamoring for their return.
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The only one 'suffering' is you. It is YOU that wants to see the government have this much power. I don't need any of these agencies. I can live fine without any of them.
 
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