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Thread: [W:108:129]Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

  1. #381
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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    Methinks it was more like td;cr (too deep, couldn't read).
    Okay, guru.

    The guy who can't understand how equivocating political party and protected class is offensive is above us.

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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I think that I was just control myself and not worry about drinking... sounds like you might wanna lay off the sauce for a bit.
    I had 2/3 of a beer. If I was gonna hang with a Mormon sibling and family, I'd get tanked.

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    Re: [W:108:129]Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transitio

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    You mean the liberty rights of shopkeepers to run their own business have no place in the marketplace, because you think you have a right to repress them if they don't buy and sell to your liking. At least be candid.
    Your "liberty" is not absolute.

    No, I mean BIGOTRY.

    Preventing bigotry is NOT "repressive".

    If you prevent a vendor from discrimination against blacks, you are not repressing that vendor.

    The Bible says it's acceptable to murder prostitutes ( and other persons in variouso catagories that would be unjust), so if we prevent a vendor from murdering a prostitute, are we "repressing" the vendor?

    Only a moron or a criminal would assert that.

    And don't give me that old vs new testament crap, i.e., it's in the Bible, either remove the parts which legitimize crime, or knock it off with the stupid reasoning of "religion".

    Your logic wanes.
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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Blame the Baker for saying that he makes custom cakes... now, gotta go.
    But he does not claim that he can, or he will, create anything a customer wants... That fact alone destroys your already faulty arguments.

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    Re: [W:108:129]Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transitio

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarLevant View Post
    Your "liberty" is not absolute.

    No, I mean BIGOTRY.

    Preventing bigotry is NOT "repressive".

    If you prevent a vendor from discrimination against blacks, you are not repressing that vendor.

    The Bible says it's acceptable to murder prostitutes ( and other persons in variouso catagories that would be unjust), so if we prevent a vendor from murdering a prostitute, are we "repressing" the vendor?

    Only a moron or a criminal would assert that.

    And don't give me that old vs new testament crap, i.e., it's in the Bible, either remove the parts which legitimize crime, or knock it off with the stupid reasoning of "religion".

    Your logic wanes.
    Prohibiting "bigotry" is an attempt at mind control and is absolutely repression. If you try to prevent discrimination, you might have a leg to stand on.
    A continual dropping in a very rainy day and a contentious woman are alike. Proverbs 27:15

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    Re: [W:108:129]Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transitio

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarLevant View Post
    Your "liberty" is not absolute.

    No, I mean BIGOTRY.

    Preventing bigotry is NOT "repressive".
    Just because people have the right to have a surgical sex change, and homosexuals have the legal right to enter into a same sex marriage, doesn't mean that people no longer have the right to morally or religiously object to those practices. Having those rights doesn't mean you can force people with religious objections, into servicing or participating in those practices against their will. Tolerance is a 2-way street.

    Would you require under threat of lawsuit, that a Muslim caterer provide their services to a Jewish man for his gay coming out party?

    Would you require under threat of lawsuit, that a black graphic artist and printer create custom banners for a KKK jamboree?

    If a gay man came into his bake shop and asked him to create a custom birthday cake for his husbands 30th birthday and he refused, that's clearly discrimination based on sexual preference and violates public accommodation laws... What Jack Phillips did was refuse to use his artistic skills to create a customized cake celebrating an event that violates his religious beliefs... That's not discrimination against an individual, it's a moral objection to the event being celebrated.

    .

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    Re: [W:108:129]Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transitio

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarLevant View Post
    Your "liberty" is not absolute.

    No, I mean BIGOTRY.

    Preventing bigotry is NOT "repressive".

    If you prevent a vendor from discrimination against blacks, you are not repressing that vendor.

    The Bible says it's acceptable to murder prostitutes ( and other persons in variouso catagories that would be unjust), so if we prevent a vendor from murdering a prostitute, are we "repressing" the vendor?

    Only a moron or a criminal would assert that.

    And don't give me that old vs new testament crap, i.e., it's in the Bible, either remove the parts which legitimize crime, or knock it off with the stupid reasoning of "religion".

    Your logic wanes.
    "Liberty" is indeed absolute. Do you understand what "liberty" even means? This is is the same idiocy we hear from Libbos when they say that "free" speech isn't absolute. How stupid is that?

    WTF does the Bible say it's ok to "murder prostitutes"?
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    Re: [W:108:129]Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transitio

    Quote Originally Posted by SDET View Post
    Prohibiting "bigotry" is an attempt at mind control and is absolutely repression. If you try to prevent discrimination, you might have a leg to stand on.
    I agree...

    While hatred and bigotry are traits that I would love to see vanish, they can't be eliminated through legislation. Only actions can be legislated, not thoughts... Meaning that a person is free to harbor any hatred, and as much of it as they want, as long as they don't transform that hatred into violent or discriminatory actions.

    .

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    Re: [W:108:129]Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transitio

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarLevant View Post
    Your "liberty" is not absolute. No, I mean BIGOTRY. Preventing bigotry is NOT "repressive". If you prevent a vendor from discrimination against blacks, you are not repressing that vendor.
    How is it not repression? A prevention by coercive restraint of someone's choice of association is called repression - that is a universally accepted meaning. It's repression by the state, which exists regardless of whether you think that repression is legitimate.

    And you keep chanting "bigotry" as if it were a magic justification, never providing a shred of explanation of why someone's liberty of free choice must be repressed - other than you don't like how a baker uses his free choice in an allegedly bigoted manner. So far, your "argument" is just a variation on ipset dixit, meaning "this is so because I say its so". Not good enough.

    Now, in regards to you question on whether or not we are "repressing" the vendor by preventing him from murdering prostitutes; yes we are. And that repression is perfectly consistent with the moral concept that a "right" of free choice is no longer a right when it denies another individual of same freedom of choice in interaction. Rights are universal and reciprocal, and when you freely chose to murder someone you are taking away their right to life (and free choice).

    The bakers right to associate and transact must ALSO be in agreement with another to do so - that is equality of both parties rights. A seller can no more demand that someone buy from him than a consumer can demand that a seller sell to her. To make it otherwise is illegitimate repression, of preventing one of the party's right of freedom of contract and association.

    Finally, as to your drive-by on the "stupid reasoning of religion", it is immaterial to the issue. You may not like how someone uses their freedom of speech or association through "stupid reasoning" but like any principle based on the right of the individual it is irrelevant. If you start telling people what they are permitted to say, or who they must sell to or who they must buy from, then you are advocating immoral repression of their liberty.

    Try to think in principled terms, something beyond "me no like bigotry".
    Last edited by maxparrish; 12-25-18 at 11:46 PM.

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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He opened a business to the public.... his rights were therefore NOT infringed... what a load of horse malarky...
    According to the courts they were. So is this simply and account of it being completely wrong, simply because you don't agree with the verdict?

    The customers have all the right to go to another bakery, just like any other person who walks in and they can't have their order facilitated. The customers rights in this instance are not being infringed upon, as he isn't actually denying them service.

    So what is the problem here?
    “…it is easier for a 12- or 13-year-old to purchase a gun, and cheaper, than it is for them to get a book.” – Barack Obama

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