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Thread: [W:108:129]Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    The problem with you and others who side with the transgender activist, is that you believe the baker to be a bigot and therefore he's automatically guilty regardless of the law. The thing is, the law matters.

    The baker didn't refuse to sell him the baked goods he offers, he refused to create a specialty item that he's never created in the past and isn't comfortable creating now. That is not the same as refusing service and doesn't violate Colorado's public accommodation laws.

    Regardless of your opinion of the baker, he has a right to his religious and moral beliefs.
    His own website says that he creates custom cakes for people and when asked for a custom cake he refused because it was for gay people and for no other reason... that makes him a bigot but I don't care about that... it means that he broke the law by discriminating against others... that I care about... you can try to twist it any way that you want to.

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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Saying it just points out the facts and reality. The idiot that is bringing the suit is a twat. His intent is to harass. Anyone that supports the twat in his harassment is an idiot.

    I dont much give a **** as to your definition of 'bigotry'. Times, opinions...hell...history has changed over the last few years based on nothing more than politics and agenda. Up until just a few years ago, the psychiatric community labelled transgendered people as mentally ill. The only things that has changed is the politics of political correctness. Up until a few years ago, the head of the democrat party and elected president of the country opposed gay marriage. Most idiot leftists were fine with that. U[ until the middle of a presidential campaign, the head of the democrat party and their candidate in the 2016 election similarly opposed gay marriage and everyone was pretty much fine with that. Oh...make no mistake. Plenty of leftists **** themselves over CONSERVATIVES that opposed gay marriage. But hey...that was 'different'.

    As for the baker...I personally disagree with his business practice...but respect his right to his beliefs. Now Bodhi...if you think a 56 year old man that thinks he is 7 year old little girl is 'normal'...thats all fine and good. If you think people that dont believe you can change your gender just because gosh darn it...you FEEL that way...are bigots...have a ****ing ball. I reckon if it makes you feel better about yourself, go ahead.
    I think that the lawsuit guy is a ****ing asshole, to be honest. Making a big deal out of this is dumb... that does not make him wrong though.

    I think that transgenderism is stupid. I think that they are mentally challenged to a large degree... but I don't care about that. I care that people are nice to each other. If a person wants to think they are a woman when they are a man... go for it. Whatever... I don't care. Doesn't make them a woman...

  3. #263
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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Again, he did not refuse to serve anyone. He declined to create an event-specific, custom cake.

    .
    Your comment makes as much sense as "I did not kill anyone, I merely pulled the trigger of the pistol that I was holding against their temple.".

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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    His own website says that he creates custom cakes for people and when asked for a custom cake he refused because it was for gay people and for no other reason... that makes him a bigot but I don't care about that... it means that he broke the law by discriminating against others... that I care about... you can try to twist it any way that you want to.
    It's not a matter of "twisting" it any way a person wants, its a matter of having the self-awareness and integrity to know when your emotional reaction is leading you to unfair characterizations. Being "nice" to other people is giving them space, not publicly confronting a person for the sole purpose of creating a public issue so as to punish those who disagree with you.

    He advertised that he makes custom cakes - he didn't promise that he makes any or all conceivable custom cakes to anyone who might request it. Custom work has always been by mutual agreement between a creator and a client, many of which pan out and some of which don't. For example, in my ad that I make custom furniture there is no inherent promise that I will or can make a custom article of furniture to your satisfaction until we discuss what you want - everyone knows that is to be expected. THAT is the nature of works of creation and personal contracts.

    I see no reason to doubt his claim that he declined to make a cake specifically because it celebrated an event that he considers immoral; not because of who the client wished to have sex with. You think that it is "mean" to decline whatever customer wants - so be it.

    I don't, I consider it somebody unwilling to support another person's self-interested activity. The lawyer has the liberty right to decline custom service to a Christian baker, just as the baker has a right to decline providing a custom cake to the lawyer.

    End of story.

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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I think that the lawsuit guy is a ****ing asshole, to be honest. Making a big deal out of this is dumb... that does not make him wrong though.

    I think that transgenderism is stupid. I think that they are mentally challenged to a large degree... but I don't care about that. I care that people are nice to each other. If a person wants to think they are a woman when they are a man... go for it. Whatever... I don't care. Doesn't make them a woman...
    Of course it makes him wrong...because his action is nothing more than harassment. But even if that werent the case he would still be wrong because it is idiotic to believe people should be forced or coerced to engage in a contract that violates an individuals religious beliefs.

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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    His own website says that he creates custom cakes for people
    Does it say he'll create anything a customer wants? Does it say there's nothing he won't create?

    The answer to both is "no".


    and when asked for a custom cake he refused because it was for gay people and for no other reason...
    Where did he ever say such a thing?

    Are there any reports that he has ever refused to sell his goods to gay people, transgendered people, people of color, or anyone else?

    The answers are "He never said any such thing" and "No, he has never been accused of refusing to sell his goods to anyone".


    it means that he broke the law by discriminating against others... that I care about... you can try to twist it any way that you want to.
    Show me the portion of the law where it says he must create whatever the customer demands, or the relevant section that supports your belief?

    This obviously is personal with you, otherwise you would see that Jack Phillips did not violate the law.

    .

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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    Your comment makes as much sense as "I did not kill anyone, I merely pulled the trigger of the pistol that I was holding against their temple.".
    If you are convinced your position is the correct one, then answer these 2 questions:

    If a gay person walks into Burger King and orders a Big Mac and the cashier tells the person "I'm sorry, but we don't make burgers that way... but you are welcome to purchase any of the burgers we offer on our menu", has Burger King just refused service to that person and violated public accommodation laws?

    If a gay person saying they represent the Church of Satan wanted a custom three-tiered white cake from Phillips with a large figure of Satan, licking a 9" black Dildo that was an actual working model that can be turned on before unveiling the cake, would Phillips be in violation of public accommodation laws if he declined to create it?

    .

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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    Your comment makes as much sense as "I did not kill anyone, I merely pulled the trigger of the pistol that I was holding against their temple.".
    Actually its more like saying "I did not kill anyone, I declined to make a custom cake."

    See how that is a more accurate fit?

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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It is unavoidable because you do not understand context....
    Alright, then I invite you to explain the context.

    Should be a simple enough point for someone like yourself.
    “…it is easier for a 12- or 13-year-old to purchase a gun, and cheaper, than it is for them to get a book.” – Barack Obama

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    Re: Colorado baker back in court after refusing to make cake celebrating gender transition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The Courts are often wrong due to various reasons... sexism, racism, etc.
    So you're saying that the system is only correct, when it works for the benefit of your own point of view?

    Color me surprised...
    “…it is easier for a 12- or 13-year-old to purchase a gun, and cheaper, than it is for them to get a book.” – Barack Obama

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