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Obamacare ruled unconstitutional by Texas judge

TU Curmudgeon said:
I think that Mr. Trump means that Congress should run the Affordable Care Act through its word processors so that it comes out as "The Really Universal Medical Plan Act" (to be referred to as the "TRUMP Act").

Should that be done then the Republicans will support it 100%. (Admittedly the Democrats might not.)
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Yes, I think that's what he wants.

Of course the Republicans would not support it. At least not the far right. The far right are still trying to drown the government in the bathtub. But one of the good things about the Republicans is how fractured their own factions are. The moderates are shell-shocked, but they're still trying to stop the Freedom Caucus from having too free of rein. And there's never any telling what Rand Paul will do on his visits to Earth.

Their dysfunction is America's saving grace.
 
Moderate Right said:
If Democrats wanted a healthcare system that endured then they shouldn't have rammed through a purely partisan plan in the first place. If you want bipartisan fixes, then you need to start off with a bipartisan plan.
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MR, I responded to your "wah wah partisan" post. Not only have you not addressed my point you are now cowardly avoiding my posts. You don't need to respond to my posts to other conservatives. You should respond to my post where I responded directly to your "wah wah partisan" narrative.

Vern said:
MR, I addressed republican obstructionism. You didn't address the fact that republicans came up with the idea of mandates and supported them for 20 years then magically stopped when president Obama supported them. I just have to wonder if you're incapable of processing what I post or dishonestly deflecting
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Anthony60 said:
Who cares what you listed, your response was clueless. It was like you didn't even read my post. You just wanted to list a bunch of crap that had nothing to do with me saying Obamacare is unconstitutional, and that we knew it..
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you know A60, you're right. I did list a "bunch of crap". the thing you're not quite grasping is that it was a "bunch of crap" that conservatives obediently believed. so lets review. You bragged " you knew something day 1". I listed a "bunch of crap" that conservatives obediently believed day 1 to somewhat temper your inflated ego. You then accused me of " making it up". So I posted the most asinine of the dozens of lies you and yours believed to show that I wasn't making anything up. Now after I've proven I made nothing up you whine "wah wah who cares what you listed". You seemed to care until I proved my point.

Just to review
conservatives believed a never ending string of lies concering Obamacare
conservatives shouldn't ever brag about "knowing something" (and if they're bragging about Obamacare or deficits, its especially hilarious)
 
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Amelia said:
And Trump tweets: "As I predicted all along, Obamacare has been struck down as an UNCONSTITUTIONAL disaster! Now Congress must pass a STRONG law that provides GREAT healthcare and protects pre-existing conditions. Mitch and Nancy, get it done!"


What does he mean by that?

Republicans don't have any ideas for providing "GREAT healthcare" and protecting pre-existing conditions.

They fractured the law by undoing the mandate and now we're going to have chaos, and they have no viable ideas for how to fix it.
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Between both parties they are clueless on how to provide heath care to the people of this county. I will help them. First take some time out of your busy day of spreading hate and division in this country and actually focus on doing your job. If you are clueless on how to make laws and fix the problems this country is facing please step down and let us find competent people who do know how. Then you can find a full time job out in the real world spreading hate. You can start with our media.
 
MTAtech said:
Yet millions of those insured go without healthcare because of the high premiums, co-pays and deductibles. By the time they pay the premiums, they cannot afford the copays or the deductibles.
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YOu make my case with your responses.[/QUOTE]

My apologies. I thought you would comprehend plain english.

The poor get Medicaid. Those making within 400% of the poverty level get subsidies -- not necessarily Expanded Medicaid. In states that expanded Medicaid, low income Americans are better off.
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Which part of expanding medicaid to cover people at 400% of the poverty level do you not understand? Have you ever read the damn bill?

Regarding your "cancelled policy," crappy policies (e.g. junk policies) were outlawed by the ACA. That's not a bug but a feature. These junk policies had little coverage, such as hospitalization, that gave policy holders sticker-shock when hospitalization was needed. Junk policies were nearly as bad as not having insurance. That's why they were outlawed.
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That is one of the goofiest rants the left has ever come up with. It's in effect claiming that every health insurance policy ever written before the ACA was a junk policy. The junk policy claim is pure partisan ignorance.

Since we can't review your previous policy, we can only use free-market logic to assess your words.
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First you would have to learn to actually apply logic when it comes to health insurance.

The ACA doesn't set rates. That's YOUR insurance company.
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In the long run, the ACA absolutely does set rates. The health insurance providers have to get government approval for rate increases. And the government has been giving that approval.

If your old policy was better and cheaper, how and why did your insurance company raise the rates for a worse policy? Why wouldn't capitalism prevent that?
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Based on that question, I am quite certain that you have never ran a business. Under the ACA the government forces the insurance providers to sell a one size fits all level of insurance to all policy holders. the providers are not going to give away that coverage. They are going to charge for it. same with pre-existing condition coverage. Try buying homeowners insurance the day after your house is destroyed by a hurricane or tornado and then expecting the insurance to rebuild your house. capitalism only works well when the government does not call all of the shots.
That applies to health insurance. Market forces do not work when the government mandates how much coverage you must buy or that you must buy coverage to begin with.
 
TurtleDude said:
do you think the GOP should have solutions for an issue that the federal government should not properly be involved in?
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Trump does. Don't you remember how he had a great plan that would fix everything? Not that we ever saw anything of that plan.
 
Vern said:
MR, I responded to your "wah wah partisan" post. Not only have you not addressed my point you are now cowardly avoiding my posts. You don't need to respond to my posts to other conservatives. You should respond to my post where I responded directly to your "wah wah partisan" narrative.
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Oh Vernie, you are really not worth responding to. I might as well have a conversation with a brick wall.
 
MTAtech said:
I hate to say you are ignorant on this matter but you are. Your ignorance is only outweighed by your smugness.

The Commerce Clause refers to Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution, which gives Congress the power “to regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian Nations." The Commerce Clause would be an argument for how Congress IS GRANTED the authority, not violating it, as you contend.
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What you apparently do not understand is that regulating commerce does not include compelling citizens to engage in the commerce. The federal government cannot tell you that you must purchase health insurance.

However, the SCOTUS, in 2011, rules that the Commerce Clause justification doesn't apply and therefore, your argument, such as it is, is moot. The SCOTUS determined that Congress has the right under its taxation authority -- to lay and collect taxes.
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You just proved my point. First, keep in mind that the democrats came up with the ACA and spent months denying that the mandate was a tax. Then when it went to the SCOTUS, Justice Roberts, knowing full well that the mandate violated the Commerce Clause, on his own declared it a tax. He in effect legislated from the bench in order to save the ACA. Understand? Now fast forward to the repeal of the individual mandate. Without the individual mandate, the SCOTUS decision that you are yammering about is now meaningless. There is no individual mandate. The ACA is now rendered unconstitutional. Understand?
 
Nickyjo said:
Was it the mandate or the fees required? I am not a big supporter of the ACA, but glad it survived, as so many got health insurance through Medicaid expansion.
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According to Justice Roberts, the mandate became a tax.
 
JasperL said:
Yes, the "irony" of blowing up ACA and leaving 10s of millions in limbo is "interesting...."
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The tens of millions figure has always been a bald faced lie. A product of creative accounting.
 
Moderate Right said:
Oh Vernie, you are really not worth responding to. I might as well have a conversation with a brick wall.
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that's the thing MR, you're not responding to my posts. You're hitting the reply button but your posts (and whiny posts at that) really have nothing to do with my posts. Your latest post is just another example of that. "wah wah vern" is not debate. I wish you and every other conservative understood that.
 
Vern said:
that's the thing MR, you're not responding to my posts. You're hitting the reply button but your posts (and whiny posts at that) really have nothing to do with my posts. Your latest post is just another example of that. "wah wah vern" is not debate. I wish you and every other conservative understood that.
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I'm not responding to your posts because you are full of BS and not worth responding to. You never have been and many, many others have said the very same thing. You only try to win arguments through name calling and intimidation. That doesn't win debates. You only think that it does.
 
Vern said:
I responded directly to your false point that republicans have nothing to do with Obamacare. Not only is this ruling concerning Obamacare directly related to republicans removing the mandate, I listed other things republicans did to sabotage Obamacare driving up costs. So your original claim could be dismissed as ignorance. But I thought otherwise. And of course you whine about me instead of addressing your original falsehood thus proving me right.

so OC, prove you're not dishonest as I've assumed and admit that republicans have had quite a lot to do with Obamacare.
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Exact quote as to what I said:
OpportunityCost said:
They had no say in passing the law, they had no say in crafting the law. Why should they have all the solutions to a problem they didn't create, craft, or pass?
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Now, stop posting straw man's I didn't not state. The GOP didn't craft the law, they didn't pass the law, they didn't create the law. The dishonesty is all on you for twisting my exact wording into a straw man because you are incapable of fact based discussion. I did not state they had "nothing" to do with the law. That's you being a dishonest, bad faith, partisan, clueless poster. You can quit annoying conservatives and making liberals look bad any time by reading what's there and making factual commentary without your sidebar partisan sniping.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Exact quote as to what I said:


Now, stop posting straw man's I didn't not state. The GOP didn't craft the law, they didn't pass the law, they didn't create the law. The dishonesty is all on you for twisting my exact wording into a straw man because you are incapable of fact based discussion. I did not state they had "nothing" to do with the law. That's you being a dishonest, bad faith, partisan, clueless poster. You can quit annoying conservatives and making liberals look bad any time by reading what's there and making factual commentary without your sidebar partisan sniping.
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OC, thank you for proving you're yet another dishonest conservative and proving me right for calling you dishonest. There is simply no string of words you can post to dispute that republicans created this current problem. Hence you have to resort to the dishonest "feign umbrage" post.
 
MTAtech said:
If Republicans wanted to raise the 26 age to something higher, they had 2 years to do it. Instead, they attempted to throw 30 million people off insurance and LOWER that age to 18.
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The nerve of them! Next thing you know, they'll be allowing 18 year olds to vote, and trying them as adults! Shame!
 
Moderate Right said:
I'm not responding to your posts because you are full of BS and not worth responding to. You never have been and many, many others have said the very same thing. You only try to win arguments through name calling and intimidation. That doesn't win debates. You only think that it does.
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MR, your deflecting and dishonest whining serves no purpose. I've responded to your false and whiny posts concerning the bipartisanship of Obamacare. The fact that you repeatedly choose to whine about me only proves my point.
 
Vern said:
OC, thank you for proving you're yet another dishonest conservative and proving me right for calling you dishonest. There is simply no string of words you can post to dispute that republicans created this current problem. Hence you have to resort to the dishonest "feign umbrage" post.
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Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post

They had no say in passing the law, they had no say in crafting the law. Why should they have all the solutions to a problem they didn't create, craft, or pass?
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Anything you want to state operative to my post or are you sticking with acting in bad faith and calling other posters dishonest? I did not state NOTHING as averred by you, I gave you the exact quote, please make a post that disputes those facts.
 
Lursa said:
It was offensively punitive. Of course it was punitive.

OTOH, I was fortunate playing the odds for 2 yrs...the tax penalty was only about a third of what the premiums would have been (I was not eligible for any subsidies).
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How would you like other motorists to take the gamble they won't get into an accident?
 
Taylor said:
The nerve of them! Next thing you know, they'll be allowing 18 year olds to vote, and trying them as adults! Shame!
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The funny thing is, you'd be thrilled if 18 year olds couldn't vote. Younger voters tend Democratic.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Anything you want to state operative to my post or are you sticking with acting in bad faith and calling other posters dishonest? I did not state NOTHING as averred by you, I gave you the exact quote, please make a post that disputes those facts.
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Oh Oc, if you think I'm going to tire of you lying and making a fool of yourself, you are sadly mistaken. Republicans created this latest problem in addition to numerous others. whining about me and at me doesn't change that. the best part is you've painted yourself into a corner with your "feign umbrage" tactic so you cant even attempt an honest discussion of the facts.
 
rocket88 said:
The funny thing is, you'd be thrilled if 18 year olds couldn't vote. Younger voters tend Democratic.
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Young and naive don't always go together.
 
Vern said:
Oh Oc, if you think I'm going to tire of you lying and making a fool of yourself, you are sadly mistaken. Republicans created this latest problem in addition to numerous others. whining about me and at me doesn't change that. the best part is you've painted yourself into a corner with your "feign umbrage" tactic so you cant even attempt an honest discussion of the facts.
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Actually I already did with this:

Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post

They had no say in passing the law, they had no say in crafting the law. Why should they have all the solutions to a problem they didn't create, craft, or pass?
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If you could respond in some way to that without tossing insults it would be a welcome change. I really do want you to try to discuss the topic, if you can.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Anything you want to state operative to my post or are you sticking with acting in bad faith and calling other posters dishonest? I did not state NOTHING as averred by you, I gave you the exact quote, please make a post that disputes those facts.
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poor OC, when you call me dishonest I ignore it because I know its not true. You have to post your " how dare thee impugn my character" reply because you cant address the facts. And of course you cant dispute you are being dishonest. Read this as slowly as possible, republicans created this latest "problem". Its not the first time they have created a problem. All the whining in the world doesn't make your dishonest (and of course hypocrisy) magically disappear
 
So are they gonna give us our money back for the penalties we paid?
 
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