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Trump was in the room during hush money discussions with tabloid publisher

upsideguy said:
No, 2 pages of a single 1040 from 12 years ago does not constitute "tax returns were televised"..... It would be like "stealing" the 3rd digit of a credit card and calling that identify theft.

Moot. Mueller and the State of NY have the returns now and congress will have them soon. Whatever evil lurks within will be flushed out.
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MSNBC's Rachel Maddow teed up a major scoop about President Donald Trump's taxes on Tuesday night -- only to end up disappointing many in the political-media establishment with a report that was widely characterized as overhyped.

" The decision to hype the scoop -- Maddow first tweeted her all-caps "BREAKING" alert at 7:36 p.m. ET -- disappointed many journalists, who felt that Maddow had undermined legitimate inquiry into Trump's tax returns.

It also disappointed Democrats, including Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign press secretary Brian Fallon.

Before Maddow's broadcast, Fallon retweeted the breaking news alert and called it "the holy grail." "

Perhaps the lying fake news should not have over hyped the information in the first place.
 
akyron said:
MSNBC's Rachel Maddow teed up a major scoop about President Donald Trump's taxes on Tuesday night -- only to end up disappointing many in the political-media establishment with a report that was widely characterized as overhyped.

" The decision to hype the scoop -- Maddow first tweeted her all-caps "BREAKING" alert at 7:36 p.m. ET -- disappointed many journalists, who felt that Maddow had undermined legitimate inquiry into Trump's tax returns.

It also disappointed Democrats, including Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign press secretary Brian Fallon.

Before Maddow's broadcast, Fallon retweeted the breaking news alert and called it "the holy grail." "

Perhaps the lying fake news should not have over hyped the information in the first place.
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Are you trying to affirm my point? Because you did.

Two pages from a tax return of 13 years ago is not exactly disclosing a tax return. The substance of Trump's tax returns are not pages 1 and 2 of the 1040, they are in the Schedules C and E with supporting information. To restate, receiving 2 pages of a complex return like Trump's gives us as much of the big picture as receiving the 7th digit of a credit card or the 6th digit of a social. It's not even a single datapoint of his financial picture as it is not in context.

BTW, conventional wisdom is that Trump (or perhaps John Barron) himself forwarded this document to David Kay Johnson, a tax expert and known nemesis of Trump, cherry picking the particular year and pages.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/who-leaked-part-of-donald-trumps-2005-federal-tax-return
 
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upsideguy said:
Are you trying to affirm my point? Because you did.

Two pages from a tax return of 13 years ago is not exactly disclosing a tax return. The substance of Trump's tax returns are not pages 1 and 2 of the 1040, they are in the Schedules C and E with supporting information. To restate, receiving 2 pages of a complex return like Trump's gives us as much of the big picture as receiving the 7th digit of a credit card or the 6th digit of a social.
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The tax returns were televised with much hype. They just do not say what you want is all.
 
akyron said:
The tax returns were televised with much hype. They just do not say what you want is all.
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First, we are now discussing an news item of nearly 2 years ago. Second, you are making my point, what we know about Trump's taxes is practically nothing. Two pages of a 1040 give you little information other than summary of other data, and its only one year (probably an anomaly of a good year if they came from John Barron).

The substance of a tax return is in the Schedules, in this case Schedules C and E, and the details of those schedules. That information will show you were income is sourced. Even then, however, given the inherent complexity of real estate, would still only be a part of the whole, as its likely that Trump's return is full of k-1's from numerous partnerships, corporations, LLC's and LLP's, each with their own complex structure of ownership. It would take a team of tax experts, led by Mueller, maybe a year or two to properly decipher them..... then again, that is what the Mueller team has been doing for awhile.

FYI.... we can argue this, but you should know that I hold a CPA license so I know a little about what we are talking about here.
 
akyron said:
Tens of millions paid in taxes is not "practically nothing" to many.
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We know NOTHING about Trump's taxes and financial affairs, including whether or not he later recovered that money (the government paid him back) through the application of future net operating losses to previous tax years. Just because he paid it in 2005 doesn't mean he might not have gotten it back in 2008.

Again, 2 pages of a single tax return doesn't tell you much. (Worry not, Mueller knows as will soon the House Ways and Means Committee).
 
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upsideguy said:
We know NOTHING about Trump's taxes and financial affairs, including whether or not he later recovered that money (the government paid him back) through the application of future net operating losses to previous tax years. Just because he paid it in 2005 doesn't mean he might not have gotten it back in 2008.

Again, 2 pages of a single tax return doesn't tell you much. (Worry not, Mueller knows as will soon the House Ways and Means Committee).
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We know tens of millions was paid fair and square. That is not "nothing".
 
akyron said:
We know tens of millions was paid fair and square. That is not "nothing".
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1) Moot, as the reason you want tax returns is to understand the sources of income and potential conflicts. We do not know that (but Mueller does, and I am sure we will soon know); and

2) just because he paid X dollars in 2005 doesn't mean that it wasn't later refunded to him in full, via the application of future NOL's carried back.... so, you really don't know if he actually paid taxes.

...so it is practically nothing. You can not understand the character of a population from a single data point. All we have on Trump's taxes is a single, incomplete data point.
 
upsideguy said:
1) Moot, as the reason you want tax returns is to understand the sources of income and potential conflicts. We do not know that (but Mueller does, and I am sure we will soon know); and

2) just because he paid X dollars in 2005 doesn't mean that it wasn't later refunded to him in full hrough the application of future NOL's carried back.... so, you really don't know if he actually paid taxes.

...so it is practically nothing. You can not understand the character of a population from a single data point. All we have on Trump's taxes is a single, incomplete data point.
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Speculation is just that. You have a salient data point. You just do not like it.
 
akyron said:
Speculation is just that. You have a salient data point. You just do not like it.
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There is no speculation here.... I am just telling you the possibilities.... It's actually you that doesn't like the truth here.

I just telling you why the tax returns don't tell us anything of value. Do you understand real estate taxation and NOL's? If you don't, you don't understand my point.

That all said, its moot. The tax returns probably would have kept him from becoming President, but they are nothing but evidence of conflicts of interest at this point. Its the conflicts of interest (Russian financial ties) that are going to bring Trump down
 
upsideguy said:
There is no speculation here.... I am just telling you the possibilities.... It's actually you that doesn't like the truth here.
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Oh I dont like the truth of the fact is that some rush to judgement sans facts. You are correct about that much. Like it or not we must face these facts.

Fairness is a fundamental principle I really like. So do many others.

And...as some exhibit...some do not place much value on fairness.
 
Nickyjo said:
Clean shop: Trump Foundation, Trump University, Trump Steaks... the list goes on... Look up the definition of "four-flusher."
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He also thinks Trump is a good leader......
 
akyron said:
Tens of millions paid in taxes is not "practically nothing" to many.
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Nice deflection: Person A says we know practically nothing (apples). Person B says tens of millions paid is not nothing (oranges). Reminds me of the John Cleese comic sketch send up of Sherlock Holmes:

"Professor Moriarty is so evil he will stop at nothing!"

"Then maybe if we do nothing, he will stop."
 
Nickyjo said:
Nice deflection: Person A says we know practically nothing (apples). Person B says tens of millions paid is not nothing (oranges). Reminds me of the John Cleese comic sketch send up of Sherlock Holmes:

"Professor Moriarty is so evil he will stop at nothing!"

"Then maybe if we do nothing, he will stop."
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Except we do know something. A massive reveal was hyped up and publicly acclaimed:
Tens of millions in taxes were paid.

Maddow's Trump's tax return reveal delivers 4.1 million viewers for MSNBC

One thing was consistent.

"The hyped release on Maddow's show was widely mocked by media members on the left and right. "
 
akyron said:
Except we do know something. A massive reveal was hyped up and publicly acclaimed:
Tens of millions in taxes were paid.

Maddow's Trump's tax return reveal delivers 4.1 million viewers for MSNBC

One thing was consistent.

"The hyped release on Maddow's show was widely mocked by media members on the left and right. "
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Finally we agree. The Maddow incident was embarrassing for her considering all the hype.

But presumably Congress will get the information soon. Still don't understand if all is ok why he didn't reveal his returns, and had to hide behind the supposed endless audit. Voters need to know if and how he is tied up financially with, for example, oligarchs in Russia, and evaluate if that might affect his foreign policy moves. If you add this to the fact that he has not effectively separated himself from his businesses and his likely violation of the emoluments clause, he has at the very least the appearance of corruption.

Not to be a too much of a shrink, but I tie this to Trump's never having had a boss, a supervisor, and rarely having to answer to anyone for anything. He doesn't seem to understand the rules the rest of us have to acknowledge and play by.
 
Nickyjo said:
Finally we agree. The Maddow incident was embarrassing for her considering all the hype.

But presumably Congress will get the information soon. Still don't understand if all is ok why he didn't reveal his returns.
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Where are your IRS returns posted? Thanks.
 
Nickyjo said:
Hanging curve ball: When I run for president, the returns will be there for all to see.
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No one has a right to your personal information either...That would be ....fair.
 
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