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[W:607]Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

MTAtech said:
Oh really?

When will this "temporary" appointment expire? Who has been nominated to be the permanent AG?
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Probably someone that has been there before. Time will tell. The first inning is a bit early for the doom and gloom.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

ElChupacabra said:
There's been no mention of that and what that costs too. I would think if one is pitching a border security plan it would make sense to also mention what the comprehensive approach is going to be and what those ancillary costs amount to. Also, I would look at manpower and technology as a better and more flexible solution than a wall.
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A lot of the tech is in place We need to wall to pigeon hole people trying to illegally enter.

How much is it worth to have border security?
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

year2late said:
Statue? He looked stoned through much of it.
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Pence looks like he could be a prime candidate for a SouthWest Airlines "want to get away?" commercial.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

Peter King said:
Well, then he still lied and it will still be US taxpayers dollars who will go to the wall, not the Mexican taxpayers. And I will ignore the idiotic economic short term policy that Trump is enacting because it will be future government and future generations to pay for the bad economic decision and stupid ignoring of reality that Trump is guilty of.
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Suit yourself.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

WCH said:
A lot of the tech is in place We need to wall to pigeon hole people trying to illegally enter.

How much is it worth to have border security?
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That's a good question. It would make sense to have another proposal available that examines border security from the perspective of technology and manpower solutions to contrast to the wall; if border security is the actual concern. Combine that with a plan on how to enforce existing employment laws to reduce the hiring of illegal immigrants, and I'd be interested. Someone just blurting out the simplest answer and not providing details isn't a convincing pitch; especially when the person making the pitch assured everyone that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. If he can miscalculate that, then I'm not going to trust his assessment on border security solutions.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

JasperL said:
Then why are you repeatedly blaming Democrats? You're playing the role of gullible partisan by ignoring the GOP failures and spending all your time whining about Pelosi and Schumer. I'm sure the GOP corporate toadies and cowards appreciate you playing along, but it's a mystery why you're doing it.

The GOP don't have the votes. That's not a problem of Pelosi or Schumer, but of GOP hacks who are lying to you and the base.
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Look at what this thread is about. Trump and two Dems.

In regard to this thread and the meeting, it's the Dems who are in opposition to national security and citizen safety...among the other problems with illegal immigrants.

In this case, the House could vote and would pass funding for the wall...but Schumer and his Senate Dems would not allow the funding to pass the Senate.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

JasperL said:
No, she was repeatedly mocking Trump's claim, e.g. "You will not win" :lamo and daring Trump and/or Ryan to deliver the votes, and she knows they cannot.

But, hey, if Ryan has the votes, just do it! Show us the votes!!! It would make a fool out of Pelosi and I know the GOP base would eat that stuff right up. So let's see it!

Plus she was exactly right - if the GOP gets the $5 billion funding through the House, it shifts pressure on Senate Democrats who Trump could argue are responsible for the shutdown. As is, that claim is laughable. If it can't pass the House, how in the hell can it be the Democrats' fault for not approving a bill Ryan did NOT send to the Senate to bring up for a vote? :confused:
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Tell you what...talk Schumer into giving Dem votes to the funding and they'll hold a House vote immediately and Trump will get his money. Trump is absolutely correct in saying it's a waste of time to hold a House vote otherwise.

Nancy was grandstanding.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

JasperL said:
And you're missing the point that Mexican funding would completely change the discussion because "do it for FREE! after Mexican reimbursement" is different than "Do it for $50 Billion!!"
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An alternative dispute without a difference. Your "Change of discussion" is a figure of speech implying a meaningful new direction - changing the subject is not meaningful to the contending parties. It's not about the budget, its about unalloyed antipathy to the "immoral" wall. I am sure there are those who wouldn't oppose the wall if it were free - the dynamic duo are not among them.

I think it's more than my ignorance, but if you believe there is a plan, show it to me. Don't tell me I'm stupid for not knowing - show me where someone in the administration evaluated alternatives and decided, "The WALL!! is the bestest of all options!"

And of course a heavily manned and patrolled massive wall can work. The Berlin Wall "worked" great, and a big part of it working was people who tried to cross were shot dead by armed guards. My questions about The Wall are, among other things, what it will cost to make it work.
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There have been, and will continue to be, alternative studys - but like any government expenditure, the money needs set aside. Once that is done, RFP(s) (request for proposal) or RFQ(s) (request for quote) can be issued and evaluated. "The wall" concept has never been a literal coast to coast "WALL", it has been a wall where feasible and efficient, as well as minimal double fencing and patrol roads where it makes more engineering and access sense.

The cost estimates have run from 8 billion to 24 billion, but at an average cost of 6 million (2018 dollars) per mile for the work done ten years ago (CBO study), you can do you own estimates. My own view is the 24 billion is the more realistic.

Finally, it is rare to have to shoot anyone attempting illegal border crossings (although if it is a real threat it does tend to dissuade the unlawful). And success does not require slowing the flow to a couple of illegal crossings a year. Using the 80/20 rule is a good place to start. If 80 percent of the currently apprehended crossers were caught or prevented from crossing - its a success. And given the success rates of other border systems, a 95 or better success rate is likely.

Examples:

Border Wall Sinai Fence Chart.jpg

Border Wall West Bank.jpg

Border Wall Fence Hungry Chart.jpg

Border Wall Fence Hungry Chart 2.jpg
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

mrdeltoid said:
OK, on the table beside him. He picked them up at one point.
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I didn’t see that, but if true how do you know what was on written on them?
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

Mycroft said:
Look at what this thread is about. Trump and two Dems.

In regard to this thread and the meeting, it's the Dems who are in opposition to national security and citizen safety...among the other problems with illegal immigrants.

In this case, the House could vote and would pass funding for the wall...but Schumer and his Senate Dems would not allow the funding to pass the Senate.
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If they could and would, then they should just do it. It's very simple. Money talks, and bull**** walks. The GOP walks every time on immigration.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

JasperL said:
So this Great Wall of Trump will be 50-60 feet tall? :2rofll:
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I used 30 as a median height. Could be shorter or taller. If they climb that height, they will need another ladder to get down.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

Khayembii Communique said:
The great Trump Shutdown is coming. He owned it. He's taking responsibility for it. He's not going to get the votes for what he wants. He has no interest in compromise. The Democrats have said openly they don't want to shut the government down, they are open to discussion and compromise, and he isn't. This is 100% on Trump.

Shutting down the government during Christmas is just sure to garner him more support right? I can't wait to see how the Republicans act as he further isolates himself.
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Christmas is a great time to have off. Ask anyone.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

tres borrachos said:
I'm sorry your life is so terrible that you worry and fret and tinkle your panties about some immigrant stealing your blueberry picking job. McDonald's is hiring, and you need the same skill set for that.
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That's your standard New England elitist view of immigration. Congrats.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

WCH said:
I used 30 as a median height. Could be shorter or taller. If they climb that height, they will need another ladder to get down.
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That technology was developed by the Marines in WWII.

A ladder truck on one side and a cargo net on the other will do the trick; mobile, cheap and effective.

25f80m9.jpg

102s1og.jpg
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

JasperL said:
If they could and would, then they should just do it. It's very simple. Money talks, and bull**** walks. The GOP walks every time on immigration.
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The operative phrase...which Schumer says won't happen.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

ElChupacabra said:
That's a good question. It would make sense to have another proposal available that examines border security from the perspective of technology and manpower solutions to contrast to the wall; if border security is the actual concern. Combine that with a plan on how to enforce existing employment laws to reduce the hiring of illegal immigrants, and I'd be interested. Someone just blurting out the simplest answer and not providing details isn't a convincing pitch; especially when the person making the pitch assured everyone that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. If he can miscalculate that, then I'm not going to trust his assessment on border security solutions.
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I agree. Make it actually criminal to hire illegals and enforce it. At the same time, safe guard jobs for those coming here legally.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

WCH said:
I agree. Make it actually criminal to hire illegals and enforce it. At the same time, safe guard jobs for those coming here legally.
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Agreed. Same for renting to or otherwise supporting illegals in this country. A much smarter option than building a wall; it not only eliminates reasons for people to come to the US illegally, but will cause those already here to self-deport.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

Rising Sun said:
That technology was developed by the Marines in WWII.

A ladder truck on one side and a cargo net on the other will do the trick; mobile, cheap and effective.

25f80m9.jpg

102s1og.jpg
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Poor migrants won't have such luxuries. The wall will have sensors to alert USBP.

Maybe they could launch them with catapults or rockets?
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

JasperL said:
It's fascinating that you don't include Republicans in your rants. On your previous list, the first item was mandatory e-verify. Why didn't that pass the House when it was under GOP control, with a GOP Senate and a GOP President, either the last two years or during the Bush II era?

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article213791734.html

Seems like you need to broaden your targets a little bit and include Republicans, while in the majority, on your list of scorn....
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When the topic is E-Verify, the Chamber of Commerce ass-licking Republicans (and bedfellow Democrats) will be in the "ranting". In the many scores of posts of the subject of immigration (as well as to all my friends) the "mainstreet Republicans" and business GOP (and farmers) are equally contemptable. However, because Democrats also don't want e-verify, the issue rarely makes the news. (Lindsay Graham, for example, has worked for years to subvert robust enforcement but to hear him now, you'd think he was Tom Tancredo).

If there is a special place in hell for the CofC Republican snakes, I'll beg Satan to let me be the first to boot them into the lake of burning sulfur.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

maxparrish said:
When the topic is E-Verify, the Chamber of Commerce ass-licking Republicans (and bedfellow Democrats) will be in the "ranting". In the many scores of posts of the subject of immigration (as well as to all my friends) the "mainstreet Republicans" and business GOP (and farmers) are equally contemptable. However, because Democrats also don't want e-verify, the issue rarely makes the news. (Lindsay Graham, for example, has worked for years to subvert robust enforcement but to hear him now, you'd think he was Tom Tancredo).

If there is a special place in hell for the CofC Republican snakes, I'll beg Satan to let me be the one pouring burning sulfur on their heads.
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All of which goes to prove why nothing is being done about illegal immigration: nobody really wants a solution.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

Ann Coulter ✔
@AnnCoulter
Even a Washington Post reporter knows that not 1 inch of Trump's wall has been built. Does Trump think his supporters are dumber than a WaPo reporter? https://wapo.st/2zQJuLy
11:42 AM - Dec 11, 2018

Even Coulter sees through Trumps never-ending lies. To answer her question, Yes.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

WCH said:
Poor migrants won't have such luxuries. The wall will have sensors to alert USBP.

Maybe they could launch them with catapults or rockets?
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First, entrepreneurs would have the money to buy a $50,000 truck and a $200 worth of climbing net.

Second, what sensors? The ones that can be cut with a pair of wire-cutters? Let's say they couldn't be cut. What do you think the response time would be for USBP at remote locations? An hour? Two hours? Coyotes could drive up with a busload of illegals while another drives the ladder/cargo net truck. Set up would be about 10 minutes. How long to get 50 people over the wall? 10-15 minutes? They run 100 yards and are picked on the US side by another bus. 30 minutes later USBP shows up and finds nothing.

Heck, it'd be even cheaper to operate than a boat or digging a tunnel.
 
Re: Trump Oval Office meeting with Pelosi, Schumer spirals over border wall — live updates

Mycroft said:
Tell you what...talk Schumer into giving Dem votes to the funding and they'll hold a House vote immediately and Trump will get his money. Trump is absolutely correct in saying it's a waste of time to hold a House vote otherwise.

Nancy was grandstanding.
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Just Do It!
 
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