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Schiff: Trump may face ‘real prospect of jail time’

Into the Night said:
A USA Today article is not evidence. Evidence?
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First, I also mentioned in my link that prosecutors are mentioning Trump as a co-conspirator and so is Michael Cohen. You chose to ignore that.

Second, I don't have access to the actual indictment, without redactments -- but I find your argument that unless I can show what prosecutors have, there is no evidence. That's an absurd defense -- if a poster can't produce the evidence that the prosecutors are preparing, there isn't anything there.

However, what's making it to the public is clear (except for those invested in not seeing) that there is plenty of evidence.

I read your posts and see someone who is swimming against the river flow of very serious criminality against the Trumps.
 
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ThoughtEx. said:
Civility?

**** Civility.

We in revolution territory if his ass doesn't end up in jail.

Imagine the riots in France, now imagine that only with millions more people.

And yes to all you pearl clutching conservatives, property will be damaged during this riot. *Gasp* "Not the property" Yes, property.

And no one cares about "What about..."

There is nothing Trump can do to change hearts and minds. No facts anyone can share to mend the broken fences. No logic that can be applied to de escalate the situation.

At this point, the US should divorce itself and split into two ****ing countries. Not because of Donald Trump. But because of his supporters. Donald is just the front man for them. The real enemy.

He has shown everyone that those who follow him are twisted and corrupt. That their value system actively opposes those of normal Americans. And that they would sell out their own country just to feel like they are in charge.

Trump supporters disgust me.

I hope there is a civil war.
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I'm a loyal Trump supporter and I hate liberals.I too hope there is a civil war.Us Trump supporters will win.
 
MTAtech said:
First, I also mentioned in my link that prosecutors are mentioning Trump as a co-conspirator and so is Michael Cohen. You chose to ignore that.
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Accusations are not evidence. Evidence?
MTAtech said:
Second, I don't have access to the actual indictment, without redactments
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Accusations are not evidence. They are accusations.
MTAtech said:
-- but I find your argument that unless I can show what prosecutors have, there is no evidence.
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You still have not presented any evidence.
MTAtech said:
That's an absurd defense -- if a poster can't produce the evidence that the prosecutors are preparing, there isn't anything there.
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What prosecutor?
MTAtech said:
However, what's making it to the public is clear (except for those invested in not seeing) that there is plenty of evidence.
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You keep saying there is plenty of evidence, even publicly available evidence. Where is it? What is the evidence?
MTAtech said:
I read your posts and see someone who is swimming against the river flow of very serious criminality against the Trumps.
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Crime is not a 'river flow'. What crime?
 
Into the Night said:
Ok. So you openly admit that you have no evidence.
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It was supplied in post 42.

Asking you for actual evidence is not a void argument or a denial of reality. Define 'reality'.
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Reality is me providing the evidence of my statement about Trump and Russia in post 42.
 
SmartCat said:
Conspiring with Russians to defeat Hillary Clinton in the presidential election. Paying mistresses to keep quiet about his small penis. I am confident that the Mueller will find additional stuff.
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Let us say that in the end Mueller and the others looking into this produce verifiable evidence that
1- Trump and his campaign conspired with the Russians to illegally help him in the 2016 election
2- illegal monies were used to do this
3- Trump repeatedly lied to the American people about his involvement with Russia and his own businesses and fortune and its source and funding
4- Trump has had a 20 to 30 year history of running a criminal enterprise
5- Trump has been compromised by the Russians because of these factors that they are aware of
6- Trump personally participated and even ordered people in the campaign and on his staff to do illegal acts and commit crimes
7- Trump has headed an organized campaign to obstruct justice

In the end, if all this is proven with verifiable evidence, Trump will claim that while this is not something he planned to do or wanted to do, some of it, if not all of it, was forced upon him and he had no choice because he faced bankruptcy and the nation faced and even greater danger - the great Satan Hillary Clinton.

In the end Trumps defense will be he was forced by circumstances to do this to save his company and the jobs of the people who work for him and he had to save the nation from Clinton.

He will contend that business people make these tough decision all the time and it is not criminal to do so but only survival of the fittest. He will also plead inexperience and outright ignorance of he political crimes and things like campaign finance and look upon that as an excuse.

This of course, in his own mind, makes him innocent of any criminal charges.

Most of the Trumpkin deplorables will side with Trump and believe him although he will lose a minority of them who just cannot stomach the Russian alliance.

Top Republicans such as McConnell will quietly and secretly inform Trump that he no longer can count on their support and they just might vote to convict him after he is impeached. Trump will then resign from office for "health reason" that are of course bogus and invented. This should happen sometime in 2019 or early in 2020 to give the GOP time to try and put the pieces back together and rally around a different presidential candidate.
 
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j-mac said:
As we have seen with the Clinton's, once our politicians lose, or leave office, they are rarely prosecuted, and jailed...That's just not the image this country has ever wanted to send, that we jail our former Presidents, etc....

Is that changing? Has TDS finally broken through the veneer of civility between the two parties to unleash certain players that think it would be a good thing for America to have opposing political parties sending their opposition to jail?

If so, and if this is the "fundamental transformation" that Obama was speaking of when he was elected, then we are on a saddening path...God help us....
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This is a bad thing why? You break the law, you suffer the consequences. I for one am sick and tired of government officials in any capacity from President on down to a public works employee, bilking the American people and then they leave office and get pardoned or are forgotten about, **** that.

Clinton, Bush, Trump if they committed a crime then yes let the party's send each other to jail for wrong doing. This would correct a lot of the criminality in government. I know it will not deter any of it, but it may make them at least stop to think.
 
haymarket said:
Your post makes no rational sense on any level as an intelligent response to the post from me you pretended to be replying to.
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It must, because you chose ad hominem instead of debate...

Sent from my SM-T587P using Tapatalk
 
j-mac said:
It must, because you chose ad hominem instead of debate...

Sent from my SM-T587P using Tapatalk
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Telling it like it is and exposing he other side is not ad hominem - it is cut to the chase truth.
 
j-mac said:
Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) on Sunday said that President Trump might "face the real prospect of jail time" after prosecutors indicated last week that he directed illegal payments during his 2016 presidential campaign.

"There’s a very real prospect that on the day Donald Trump leaves office, the Justice Department may indict him. That he may be the first president in quite some time to face the real prospect of jail time," he said on CBS's "Face the Nation."

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday...iff-trump-may-face-real-prospect-of-jail-time
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I don't know about that. Too much hype and giddyness from over-excited anti-Trumps.....we'll have to wait see. Here's an article that says otherwise:

A very lengthy detailed explanation, that also touches Barack Obama, John Edwards, and so many Congressmen:


Trump’s Ex-Lawyer Didn’t Violate Campaign Finance Laws, and Neither Did the President


President Donald Trump’s former attorney, Michael Cohen, may have been convinced by the Office of the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York to plead guilty to a supposed violation of campaign finance law, but that doesn’t mean that what happened is actually a federal crime.

In fact, neither the Federal Election Commission—which is the independent agency tasked with enforcing the Federal Election Campaign Act—nor its former commissioners would likely agree with the overaggressive view that the Southern District is taking.

Indeed, the Southern District’s aggressive stance on this issue might have violated the Justice Department’s own policy.



Khuzami asserts these were illegal corporate contributions to the Trump campaign because they were made with “the intent to influence the 2016 presidential election.” Thus, he claims, they were campaign-related expenses and all of the rules governing federal campaigns apply to the payments.

But there are numerous problems with Khuzami’s claim.


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https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-...violate-campaign-finance-laws-and-neither-did

About the author:
Election Law Reform Initiative and Senior Legal Fellow
Hans von Spakovsky is an authority on a wide range of issues – including civil rights, civil justice, the First Amendment, immigration.
 
haymarket said:
Let us say that in the end Mueller and the others looking into this produce verifiable evidence that
1- Trump and his campaign conspired with the Russians to illegally help him in the 2016 election
2- illegal monies were used to do this
3- Trump repeatedly lied to the American people about his involvement with Russia and his own businesses and fortune and its source and funding
4- Trump has had a 20 to 30 year history of running a criminal enterprise
5- Trump has been compromised by the Russians because of these factors that they are aware of
6- Trump personally participated and even ordered people in the campaign and on his staff to do illegal acts and commit crimes
7- Trump has headed an organized campaign to obstruct justice

In the end, if all this is proven with verifiable evidence, Trump will claim that while this is not something he planned to do or wanted to do, some of it, if not all of it, was forced upon him and he had no choice because he faced bankruptcy and the nation faced and even greater danger - the great Satan Hillary Clinton.

In the end Trumps defense will be he was forced by circumstances to do this to save his company and the jobs of the people who work for him and he had to save the nation from Clinton.

He will contend that business people make these tough decision all the time and it is not criminal to do so but only survival of the fittest. He will also plead inexperience and outright ignorance of he political crimes and things like campaign finance and look upon that as an excuse.

This of course, in his own mind, makes him innocent of any criminal charges.

Most of the Trumpkin deplorables will side with Trump and believe him although he will lose a minority of them who just cannot stomach the Russian alliance.

Top Republicans such as McConnell will quietly and secretly inform Trump that he no longer can count on their support and they just might vote to convict him after he is impeached. Trump will then resign from office for "health reason" that are of course bogus and invented. This should happen sometime in 2019 or early in 2020 to give the GOP time to try and put the pieces back together and rally around a different presidential candidate.
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"If"? You've been spending pages in here telling several posters, including myself that "the evidence you provided in post 42 was game over" now you say if? Lol....like I said before....you funny.

Sent from my SM-T587P using Tapatalk
 
j-mac said:
"If"? You've been spending pages in here telling several posters, including myself that "the evidence you provided in post 42 was game over" now you say if? Lol....like I said before....you funny.

Sent from my SM-T587P using Tapatalk
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You seem to be confused about different posts I have made. Allow me to clear up that confusion.

My statements about what we know about the Trump scandal have indeed been proven. I made a list of what we know today as fact.

The post you reproduced above in 185 is my prediction about what will happen based on what we know and what I believe will happen over time.

They are two different things. The first has been proven while the second is speculation about the future using what has been proven as a guide.

Are you clear now?
 
haymarket said:
You seem to be confused about different posts I have made. Allow me to clear up that confusion.

My statements about what we know about the Trump scandal have indeed been proven. I made a list of what we know today as fact.

The post you reproduced above in 185 is my prediction about what will happen based on what we know and what I believe will happen over time.

They are two different things. The first has been proven while the second is speculation about the future using what has been proven as a guide.

Are you clear now?
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*sniff* *sniff* I smell bs

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
j-mac said:
*sniff* *sniff* I smell bs

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Have you showered today? ;)

In seriousness, what about my very clear answer confuses and befuddles you?
 
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Into the Night said:
Evidence?

Not illegal.

Additional stuff? What has he found so far?
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The evidence will be forthcoming. Why is Trump demanding an end to the Mueller investigation? An innocent man has nothing to fear. Trump is acting like a guilty man with much to fear.

Millions of Americans hate Trump. When he is led from the White House in handcuffs there will be a loud cry of joy throughout the land.
 
gulfman said:
I'm a loyal Trump supporter and I hate liberals.I too hope there is a civil war.Us Trump supporters will win.
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I can foresee the division of the United States into what I will call "the restored Confederacy," and what will still be called the United States.

The United States will consist of the West Coast, plus Nevada, the East Coast from Virginia to Maine, and a few states in between, probably Michigan, Illinois, and Wisconsin.

The United States will have most of the best universities, and most of the most successful corporations, especially in information technology.

There will be a continual brain drain as the most intelligent young people born in the Restored Confederacy go to the United States for university training. When they graduate they will stay to get a job in a leading corporation. From time to time they will return to the Restored Confederacy for family reunions and high school reunions. They will stay long enought to remember why they left. Then they will happily return to the Civilized World where people are intelligent, well educated, and interesting to talk to.
 
MTAtech said:
I'll give you the answer from a previous thread.

You can ask Trump’s Justice Department.

Donald Trump -- or, as he’s known to federal prosecutors, Individual-1-- might well be a criminal. That’s no longer just my opinion, or that of Democratic activists. It is the finding of Trump’s own Justice Department.

Last Friday, federal prosecutors filed a sentencing memorandum for Michael Cohen, who IS definitely a criminal. The prosecutors argued that, in arranging payoffs to two women who said they’d had affairs with Trump, Cohen broke campaign finance laws, and in the process “deceived the voting public by hiding alleged facts that he believed would have had a substantial effect on the election.”

The filing emphasized the way Cohen’s actions subverted democracy. “While many Americans who desired a particular outcome to the election knocked on doors, toiled at phone banks or found any number of other legal ways to make their voices heard, Cohen sought to influence the election from the shadows,” prosecutors wrote. And he didn’t act alone, but “in coordination with and at the direction of Individual-1.” In other words, lawyers from the Justice Department have concluded that Trump may have committed a felony that went to the heart of the process that put him in office.

And if you think that this is the full complement of crimes, guess again:

From USA Today:
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May Have, where in the hell is the crime? All this maybe stuff means nothing. You libs for two years now have been yelling Trump's going down. Flinn is going to tell Mueller everything and Trump is going down. Manafort is rolling over for Mueller and Trump is going down. Russia, Russia, Russia, collusion, collusion, collusion, obstruction.....................................:doh Now Maybe, Maybe, Maybe, Maybe. :yawn:
 
Born Free said:
May Have, where in the hell is the crime? All this maybe stuff means nothing. You libs for two years now have been yelling Trump's going down. Flinn is going to tell Mueller everything and Trump is going down. Manafort is rolling over for Mueller and Trump is going down. Russia, Russia, Russia, collusion, collusion, collusion, obstruction.....................................:doh Now Maybe, Maybe, Maybe, Maybe. :yawn:
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Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to a crime and he stated that he was directed by Trump (Individual 1) to do it. That makes Trump an accomplice in a crime.
Michael Flynn got a light sentence because he provided information, presumably about Trump or his children, to the federal prosecutors.
Others are squealing to Mueller and other federal prosecutors.

Trump has been reportedly absent from "work" today -- word is that he’s depressed, angry and scared, and he’s gorging himself on Big Macs and Twinkies in a futile effort to take his mind off his growing troubles. That doesn't sound like someone who isn't worried. Remember, he knows exactly what he should be worried about.
 
SmartCat said:
The evidence will be forthcoming. Why is Trump demanding an end to the Mueller investigation? An innocent man has nothing to fear. Trump is acting like a guilty man with much to fear.

Millions of Americans hate Trump. When he is led from the White House in handcuffs there will be a loud cry of joy throughout the land.
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You libs have been saying that for two years, I'm really tired of waiting. And what evidence is forthcoming? Will Trump be indicted and be found guilty?
 
MTAtech said:
Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to a crime and he stated that he was directed by Trump (Individual 1) to do it. That makes Trump an accomplice in a crime.
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Cohen pleated guilty to lying. Good luck with that.

Michael Flynn got a light sentence because he provided information, presumably about Trump or his children, to the federal prosecutors. Others are squealing to Mueller and other federal prosecutors.
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Presumably, good luck with that.

Trump has been reportedly absent from "work" today -- word is that he’s depressed, angry and scared, and he’s gorging himself on Big Macs and Twinkies in a futile effort to take his mind off his growing troubles. That doesn't sound like someone who isn't worried. Remember, he knows exactly what he should be worried about.
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There are a few million wacko liberal reporters that will say anything to please you lefties.

Where is the crime???? However after two years you have nothing.
 
haymarket said:
Let us say that in the end Mueller and the others looking into this produce verifiable evidence that
1- Trump and his campaign conspired with the Russians to illegally help him in the 2016 election
2- illegal monies were used to do this
3- Trump repeatedly lied to the American people about his involvement with Russia and his own businesses and fortune and its source and funding
4- Trump has had a 20 to 30 year history of running a criminal enterprise
5- Trump has been compromised by the Russians because of these factors that they are aware of
6- Trump personally participated and even ordered people in the campaign and on his staff to do illegal acts and commit crimes
7- Trump has headed an organized campaign to obstruct justice

In the end, if all this is proven with verifiable evidence, Trump will claim that while this is not something he planned to do or wanted to do, some of it, if not all of it, was forced upon him and he had no choice because he faced bankruptcy and the nation faced and even greater danger - the great Satan Hillary Clinton.

In the end Trumps defense will be he was forced by circumstances to do this to save his company and the jobs of the people who work for him and he had to save the nation from Clinton.

He will contend that business people make these tough decision all the time and it is not criminal to do so but only survival of the fittest. He will also plead inexperience and outright ignorance of he political crimes and things like campaign finance and look upon that as an excuse.

This of course, in his own mind, makes him innocent of any criminal charges.

Most of the Trumpkin deplorables will side with Trump and believe him although he will lose a minority of them who just cannot stomach the Russian alliance.

Top Republicans such as McConnell will quietly and secretly inform Trump that he no longer can count on their support and they just might vote to convict him after he is impeached. Trump will then resign from office for "health reason" that are of course bogus and invented. This should happen sometime in 2019 or early in 2020 to give the GOP time to try and put the pieces back together and rally around a different presidential candidate.
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Speculating a conviction is not evidence either, Hay.
Where is the evidence?
 
haymarket said:
You seem to be confused about different posts I have made. Allow me to clear up that confusion.
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Everyone here can see the posts you made.
haymarket said:
My statements about what we know about the Trump scandal have indeed been proven.
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Evidence? Where's the proof?
haymarket said:
I made a list of what we know today as fact.
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You never did. You just made lists of people accusing Trump. Accusations are not evidence.
haymarket said:
The post you reproduced above in 185 is my prediction about what will happen based on what we know and what I believe will happen over time.
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Speciulating a conviction is not evidence either.
haymarket said:
They are two different things. The first has been proven
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Evidence?
haymarket said:
while the second is speculation about the future using what has been proven as a guide.
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Evidence?
haymarket said:
Are you clear now?
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You never were. You just say there is all this evidence. Where is it?
 
SmartCat said:
The evidence will be forthcoming.
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Evidence after conviction is not evidence. Haymarket keeps saying there is all this evidence that already exists in public view. Where is it?
SmartCat said:
Why is Trump demanding an end to the Mueller investigation?
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Because Mueller is wasting time on money on a witch hunt. Mueller has effectively discredited himself.
SmartCat said:
An innocent man has nothing to fear.
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No? Have you stopped beating your wife?
SmartCat said:
Trump is acting like a guilty man with much to fear.
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That is not evidence. Who are you to decide what a 'guilty man' acts like?
SmartCat said:
Millions of Americans hate Trump.
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True. I am posting to one of 'em now..Not evidence.
SmartCat said:
When he is led from the White House in handcuffs there will be a loud cry of joy throughout the land.
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Why would he be in handcuffs? What crime has he committed?
 
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