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Federal prosecutors in New York call for 'substantial term' in prison for Trump's ex-lawyer Michael

Exactice said:
I think certain finance Violations are felonies. Obama got hit with a massive fine.

But paying off someone so it does NOT influence is another type of violation. YET dont know if its "CUT and Dry" as I debated proving one it was directed and 2 it was out of the norm.

As for Collusion, WOW you know Mueller has details, times dates and places? OK .. WELL like I said. IF this is true I would be in COMPLETE acceptance of Impeachment. If there is NO Proof will you withdraw and back off Trump? Yes or NO?
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Hard to believe trump isn't guilty of collusion.......Back off trump?.....For what?...The man is a disgrace, a con artist and by most measures a traitor
 
Slyfox696 said:
This thread has been up for over 40 minutes and none of the usual Trump shills, who rarely let a thread go more than 10 minutes before posting their lies and "nothingburgers", still haven't appeared. Odd...
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"... "A lot of times, people like Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen think they can outsmart the agents doing the interviews," Dershowitz said after prosecutors said Cohen's cooperation was "overstated in some respects and incomplete in others.

"[Cohen] made it sound like he had information when he didn't have [it]," Dershowitz said.

He also said the report "does not sound like good news for [Robert] Mueller" and the special counsel's case studying whether Trump had illicit connections to Russia.

"They have not found a witness that can give them a key to the kingdom," said Dershowitz, adding that there is a "weak case" against Trump on the "campaign contribution issue" because he is "entitled" to pay off women as a private citizen to protect his family.

Dershowitz added the other aspect of the case, an attempt by Trump to build a skyscraper in Moscow is not a crime, unless there is a "quid pro quo" aspect that would give President Putin a penthouse or something of the like."

Dershowitz: Cohen's Harsh Sentencing Recommendation 'Doesn't Sound Like Good News for Mueller' | Fox News Insider


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PoliSciXtina said:
Not directed to me but yes I would back off trump. I don’t think it’s the conspiracy that will implicate trump but other crimes- obstruction of justice, financial crimes with his business/money laundering . But that is just my opinion of course. I hope the public gets the entire mueller report when it’s all said and done!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thanks for seeing both sides of the fence. WITH that though to be fair..... Im sure ALL upper echelons have skeletons in their closest. IF EACH president had this type of "attention" for 4 years Im sure we ALL could find crimes some way no?

1) Doubt there is Russian Collusion
2) Possible Financial crimes
3) Doubt a felony campaign Violation but possible a fine... much like Obama.

Outside of that.... ALL speculation until the public gets full knowledge of what the hell is really going on....
 
Saladin4 said:
Hard to believe trump isn't guilty of collusion.......Back off trump?.....For what?...The man is a disgrace, a con artist and by most measures a traitor
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Hard to believe is FINE thats your opinion.

If there is NO proof and Mueller fully exonerates him.... You still think he is guilty of a crime?

man is a disgrace. SURE... He is a moral Scumbag. Con Artis. I can buy that?... Most business people are.... Remember the you want to keep your doctor? As for Traitor? Ill reserve that if HE is actually guilty of acts against the state.... until then... thats just your hate for him and you can hate all you want... But if the law does not prosecute... I hope you can come to terms with it.... I really do.
 
Mach said:
They can't indict Trump, where would he be testifying to in the short term?
House and Senate may do impeachment one day, they can call Cohen, but I doubt that would be related to this plea.

You know, being president makes it hard for Trump to face the same justice any one of us would be faced with...special times require special measures...and a special counsel :)

besides, I thought Trump wanted it to be speedy and over soon? I suppose they could seal indictments for him, but no evidence of that so far. And if they didn't release this, it could tip their hand for sealed indictments..
So yeah, don't overthink it, all will hopefully be revealed soon.
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I heard Manaforts entire sentence - reasons for was entirely sealed. Hmmm
 
Roadvirus said:
Mother Jones :lamo
The Left's version of Infowars.
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Considering that the issue is not opinion or reporting but the actual filing your post is nothing more than the typical right wing stupidity. Can you offer anything as a rebuttal?
 
Exactice said:
Hard to believe is FINE thats your opinion.

If there is NO proof and Mueller fully exonerates him.... You still think he is guilty of a crime?

man is a disgrace. SURE... He is a moral Scumbag. Con Artis. I can buy that?... Most business people are.... Remember the you want to keep your doctor? As for Traitor? Ill reserve that if HE is actually guilty of acts against the state.... until then... thats just your hate for him and you can hate all you want... But if the law does not prosecute... I hope you can come to terms with it.... I really do.[/QUOTE

I can't see that happening...But I respect Mueller...If he says not enough evidence...I'll go with it...Hardly seems plausible...trump had all kinds of goons and toadies with Russian contacts and connections.....trump knew of the collusion , encouraged it...Benefited from it....These fools talked a lot...They want to avoid prison...Mueller is thorough and relentless...Watch and see
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Saladin4 said:
Hard to believe trump isn't guilty of collusion.......Back off trump?.....For what?...The man is a disgrace, a con artist and by most measures a traitor
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Side note......

Also in this day and age. I do know some individuals that may not be the MOST MORAL of humans. YET are capable of running some major business that employ 100's of people and sustain their familes and well being.

Being a moral scumbag does not disqualify you as being a good Worker or Even a leader. ONLY if your Job entails you to be a leaders of Morals.... But deep down many people of leadership have skeletons... NO one is perfect. IN NO way am I justifying TRUMP.

I am looking in the mirror. I KNOW I can do a good job, I know I can help the people around me. BUT I also know I have made mistakes in my life that I am NOT always proud of. Should I jump off a cliff because of those mistakes? Thats the risk vs reward that I must accept.
 
Saladin4 said:
Exactice said:
Hard to believe is FINE thats your opinion.

If there is NO proof and Mueller fully exonerates him.... You still think he is guilty of a crime?

man is a disgrace. SURE... He is a moral Scumbag. Con Artis. I can buy that?... Most business people are.... Remember the you want to keep your doctor? As for Traitor? Ill reserve that if HE is actually guilty of acts against the state.... until then... thats just your hate for him and you can hate all you want... But if the law does not prosecute... I hope you can come to terms with it.... I really do.
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I can't see that happening...But I respect Mueller...If he says not enough evidence...I'll go with it...Hardly seems plausible...trump had all kinds of goons and toadies with Russian contacts and connections.....trump knew of the collusion , encouraged it...Benefited from it....These fools talked a lot...They want to avoid prison...Mueller is thorough and relentless...Watch and see
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Saladin Thanks just for acknowledging that... Thats all I really wanted to see just a glimps of fair human being in there. I want to again BELIEVE the people ON HERE ON this Forum more than those actually guilty of a crime!

Thanks I really mean it!
 
Exactice said:
Saladin Thanks just for acknowledging that... Thats all I really wanted to see just a glimps of fair human being in there. I want to again BELIEVE the people ON HERE ON this Forum more than those actually guilty of a crime!

Thanks I really mean it!
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trump's only defense will be I didn't know it was a crime......Others gave me this information, I wanted to protect my sons etc etc......The evidence will be overwhelming.....Mueller is a Republican but a patriot.....Watch and see
 
Exactice said:
So Im going to be that guy..... What the hell though....

Ignoring Jackass Trump's Tweet for a moment and dealing with due process.

This was a direct accusation by Cohen. His admission to create the Trump - Co-conspirator claim is that an ACCUSATION. With in the criminal documentation, Cohen is stating that at the direction of individual #1 (Trump) he paid of Daniels.

While this is Cohen implicating individual Trump. Is there factual evidence to back this up. To make the ACCUSATION truth?

Kinda like Swetnick accusing Kavanaugh. EASY to do and hell on national TV, hard to prove especially without evidence?


So This letter is accusing TRUMP.... until there is evidence and a factual basis. Is this not just an accusation?

Secondly. Cohen's guilty plea still does NOT factualize the statement? So again... its an Accusation thats about it.


*Flame suit activated*
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Do you really think that Robert Mueller hasn't got enough evidence to win the case?? You really have no faith in the justice system do you. Sad.
 
Barnacle said:
"... "A lot of times, people like Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen think they can outsmart the agents doing the interviews," Dershowitz said after prosecutors said Cohen's cooperation was "overstated in some respects and incomplete in others.

"[Cohen] made it sound like he had information when he didn't have [it]," Dershowitz said.

He also said the report "does not sound like good news for [Robert] Mueller" and the special counsel's case studying whether Trump had illicit connections to Russia.

"They have not found a witness that can give them a key to the kingdom," said Dershowitz, adding that there is a "weak case" against Trump on the "campaign contribution issue" because he is "entitled" to pay off women as a private citizen to protect his family.

Dershowitz added the other aspect of the case, an attempt by Trump to build a skyscraper in Moscow is not a crime, unless there is a "quid pro quo" aspect that would give President Putin a penthouse or something of the like."

Dershowitz: Cohen's Harsh Sentencing Recommendation 'Doesn't Sound Like Good News for Mueller' | Fox News Insider


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Keep in mind that Dersch has become somewhat feeble-minded.

He thinks that Mueller is, literally, bribing people.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/tr...ler-literally-bribing-people/?comments=disqus
 
Exactice said:
That is to be seen though right? So we are making assumptions that due to cohens letter stating that Individual 1 directed and coordinated, The DOJ is fishing for evidence to factualize this accusation. The question again IS this in fact true?


Secondly reading Specifically "4. Cohen's Illegal Campaign Contributions" per the statement "So as to suppres teh stories and thereby preventing them from influencing the election" This is something the DOJ will have to prove itself? The problem I see is that these situations happened 10 years prior to Trumps election with that already in 2011 there was an interview about it. So it was out in the open per say. To say they hid it to prevent the influence of the election may hold SOME possibilities... But its not like he had the affair during the campaign and then try to hide it?

Dr. Ford is 100% sure it was Kavanaugh that assaulted her, how did that turn out? Sorry burden of proof falls on the accuser.
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Why do you keep bringing up Kavanaugh and Ford when it isn't remotely similar to the case being investigated by the special council? Whenever someone starts discussing apples you keep on tossing in oranges and then insist they're just alike. They're not!
 
jghiretire said:
Do you really think that Robert Mueller hasn't got enough evidence to win the case?? You really have no faith in the justice system do you. Sad.
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IF they Do bring something of value....

I have my lack of faith RECENTLY... Yes... in terms of how Justice HAS been served. FOR BOTH SIDES. So I do have my personal hesitation.

I am NOT sure he has enough evidence as I am unaware of the crime that was broken to require such evidence in specificity to trump. BUT those are my interpretation of the recent talking points so its neither wrong or right much like your assumptions... Until we KNOW and see it... its all assumptions...
 
Atomic Kid said:
Why do you keep bringing up Kavanaugh and Ford when it isn't remotely similar to the case being investigated by the special council? Whenever someone starts discussing apples you keep on tossing in oranges and then insist they're just alike. They're not!
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Sorry! I am not correlating the case, I am correlating the accusation with lack of evidence. Currently there is NO evidence indicating collusion ( I say currently, but it can change)

My point is the accusation is that Trump Colluded with Russia to interfere with the 2016 elections right? Thats what we do NOT know for certain until Mueller releases a full report.

Kavanaugh was Accused of Assault which there was NO proof that it occurred.
 
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Exactice said:
I got this.... BUT this would the validate and have the majority support, I am a Trump voter. You show me proof that collusion was evident and Trump consciously participated. I would ask my representative to move to impeach.
I am about the law if he DID break it then lets get it on. BUT if NOT..... and its all accusations without proof.... will the OTHER end move on? Get off the Impeachment train and start working on American Policies that matter?
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Summarizing here.
The criminal investigations into Trump, and his organization, are ongoing. You will not see any big action, IMO, until Mueller concludes and presents his final findings of the investigation.
I have heard many times, that Democratic leadership can't do anything until January, and even then, they would require some or all of the following before considering impeachment:
- conclusion to Muelelr's investigation with clear evidence of Trump having committed a serious crime
-belief that a majority in the senate will support it
- belief that a majority of the public will support it

So we're not there yet. There is no impeachment train. President Trump is under ongoing criminal investigation, and has done everything he can to be the worst president ever. He shoudl resign, or be thrown out *BY REPUBLICANS*.
The only way he can be thrown out otherwise, is with bi-partisan support, likely as outlined above.

Also, impeachment is not limited to "collusion", which isn't crime anyway. Bill was impeached by Republicans for perjury, remember?
 
Exactice said:
Sorry! I am not correlating the case, I am correlating the accusation with lack of evidence. Currently there is NO evidence indicating collusion ( I say currently, but it can change)

My point is the accusation is that Trump Colluded with Russia to interfere with the 2016 elections right? Thats what we do NOT know for certain until Mueller releases a full report.

Kavanaugh was Accused of Assault which there was NO proof that it occurred.
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When it comes to campaign finance violations you cited as being in need of proof. Aren't you forgetting that they have collaborating witnesses who are cooperating with them. One being the chief financial officer of the Trump Organization and the other the Editor of the National Enquirer, who allegedly had a safe full of document he kept as old Foghorn Leghorn would say "just for such an emergency". Also there is at least one tape of the conversation to pay off these women and to make arrangements to attempt to purchase the contents being kept in the editor's safe. Not a mention a trail of financial/banking documents and transactions and legal filings to go along with the witness testimony. I see very little room for Trump being able to wiggle his way out of that one. The testimony given in the Kavanaugh "hearing", not a trial. It was about questions surrounding Kavanaugh's character and whether he was fit to sit in judgement of others in the highest court in the land. Not to try and convict him of an alleged crime.
 
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The prosecutors of the SD of NY clearly want Cohen to pay a heavy price for his underworld criminal activity. This is from their memo:

[snip]Our system of voluntary compliance would be undermined if wealthy and successful individuals such as Cohen come to believe that the most severe sanctions that they will face, in the relatively unlikely case that they are caught cheating on their taxes, are the payment of back taxes, interest, and penalties. The Guidelines therefore recognize the harm tax crimes inflict on society and recommend prison sentences for cases like this one.

In sum, the nature of Cohen’s conduct underscores the need for a substantial period of incarceration as a means both to promote respect for the law and to deter future abuses by other individuals seeking improperly to influence the electoral process, evade taxes, or lie to financial institutions. [/snip]
 
Exactice said:
S
My point is the accusation is that Trump Colluded with Russia to interfere with the 2016 elections right? Thats what we do NOT know for certain until Mueller releases a full report.
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the issue with you, and the right wing, in continuing to say this is:
- who made this accusation? Not special counsel, not DOJ. the investigation is much broader than this. So stop.
- any serious/felony charges that are well evidenced against POTUS, are serious. Trying to limit serious crimes to "collusion", is a right-wing propaganda ploy, it's not reality.
- if they find evidence of other crimes that are felonies, it's still easily grounds for impeachment

So there is no "accusation", you have been corrected on this before.
DOJ is conducting the as-stated criminal investigation, and when it concludes and gives a report, we'll then know.
 
The documents include outrageous yet completely unsurprising revelations. All of the threads about Stormy Daniels here included speculation that turns out to be identical to what the documents reveal. Trump directed Cohen to hush his mistresses in order to influence the result of the 2016 presidential election in his favor. We all remember the audio recording (paraphrased): "We'll pay with cash." "No no no." Cohen illegally "funneled" (that was Giuliani's word at the time) money to the women constituting a campaign contribution that was never reported.

Further, Trump directed Cohen to make contact with representatives of Russia in order to benefit business deals related to a proposed Trump property. We already knew that the president and his subordinates had extensive contacts with Russia despite all the red-faced and laughable denials for years. So now, as before, we wait to see whether Mueller determines that those contacts constitute collusion.

Certainly obstructions of justice, both overt and covert, appear numerous.

What is unsurprising is that most people who do not blindly and mindlessly support the president have believed this for many, many months.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
The documents include outrageous yet completely unsurprising revelations. All of the threads about Stormy Daniels here included speculation that turns out to be identical to what the documents reveal. Trump directed Cohen to hush his mistresses in order to influence the result of the 2016 presidential election in his favor. We all remember the audio recording (paraphrased): "We'll pay with cash." "No no no." Cohen illegally "funneled" (that was Giuliani's word at the time) money to the women constituting a campaign contribution that was never reported.

Further, Trump directed Cohen to make contact with representatives of Russia in order to benefit business deals related to a proposed Trump property. We already knew that the president and his subordinates had extensive contacts with Russia despite all the red-faced and laughable denials for years. So now, as before, we wait to see whether Mueller determines that those contacts constitute collusion.

Certainly obstructions of justice, both overt and covert, appear numerous.

What is unsurprising is that most people who do not blindly and mindlessly support the president have believed this for many, many months.
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Look for trump cult members to say "so what"...These are not crimes...I'm glad he colluded with Russia...Will anybody in the GOP Congress members stand with America or kotow to trump?.....Time will tell
 
HumblePi said:
The prosecutors of the SD of NY clearly want Cohen to pay a heavy price for his underworld criminal activity. This is from their memo:

[snip]Our system of voluntary compliance would be undermined if wealthy and successful individuals such as Cohen come to believe that the most severe sanctions that they will face, in the relatively unlikely case that they are caught cheating on their taxes, are the payment of back taxes, interest, and penalties. The Guidelines therefore recognize the harm tax crimes inflict on society and recommend prison sentences for cases like this one.

In sum, the nature of Cohen’s conduct underscores the need for a substantial period of incarceration as a means both to promote respect for the law and to deter future abuses by other individuals seeking improperly to influence the electoral process, evade taxes, or lie to financial institutions. [/snip]
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Sounds like Cohen wasn't really of much use to Mueller after all.
 
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