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Thread: Roger Stone Taking the Fifth

  1. #371
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    Re: Roger Stone Taking the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz62 View Post
    I'm not. I do think they should be investigated separate from this Mueller thing though. And I'm not a big fan of these endless perjury traps.
    Why are you opposed to seeing what's really in those FISA and Dossier documents?
    I'm not opposed to justice. It's been 2 years. Why do you think POTUS, the Republican Senate and the Republican House haven't done anything to reveal the truth? Is it because there's nothing to reveal? That it's just a big, fat nothing burger?


  2. #372
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    Re: Stone declines Dem request for interview, invokes Fifth Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by MovingPictures View Post
    It's never been tested, but I don't think so.

    Nixon's crew always cautioned him against doing such a thing, because they had an idea that he was likely an unindicted co-conspirator.

    The worry the Nixon WH had was that the prosecutors might request a judge not recognize any such pardon, and it could cause a legal fight in the courts, which they believed he would lose, especially once impeachment articles were issued.

    It was something special counsel Lawrence Walsh considered during his investigation of Iran-Contra, but decided not to because of the stress.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure that's true.

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/executiv...l-pardon-power

    I see nothing to suggest that the President can't issue pardons if he's a co-conspirator, though it's entirely possible that I missed something.

    One thing I always get hung up on is in the very beginning, which repeats: “Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”

    I always get hung up on the "in cases of impeachment" part. Does that mean the impeachment process, or upon successful conviction through impeachment? It's really not clear, and Lawfare seems to assume that it's so obvious that they don't clarify. What confuses me is why it would mean the latter, since after successful conviction through impeachment he's no longer President and the issue is moot.

    I've tried to ask them, but there's no Q&A on the site and they ignore my tweets because I'm a nobody in an ocean of nobodies.
    Sorry for the delay getting back, here. I don't know the specific law, but I do believe a President can indeed pardon anyone he wants accept for himself. It's then up to Congress to hold him accountable for his actions, if they so choose.

    All this in my humble opinion. of course.
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  3. #373
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    Re: Roger Stone Taking the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Documentation? There is no documentation that anyone was put in a perjury trap.

    As such, there is nothing to discuss. Trump's cohoes will keep marching to prison.

    Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.


    Such is the Democratic set of "morals"
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  4. #374
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    Re: Roger Stone Taking the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun View Post
    I'm not opposed to justice. It's been 2 years. Why do you think POTUS, the Republican Senate and the Republican House haven't done anything to reveal the truth? Is it because there's nothing to reveal? That it's just a big, fat nothing burger?

    So call for their release and lets all know for sure.
    It's so lonely in m'saddle...since m'horse died...

  5. #375
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    Re: Roger Stone Taking the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz62 View Post
    I'm not. I do think they should be investigated separate from this Mueller thing though. And I'm not a big fan of these endless perjury traps.
    1. Intentionally making a materially false statement to the DOJ is a crime
    2. People that commit crimes should be prosecuted for said crimes

    You clearly don't agree with one of these statements if you are criticizing prosecutors for prosecuting perjury crimes. So which is it? #1 or #2?

    Why are you opposed to seeing what's really in those FISA and Dossier documents?
    The IG already investigated this and found no wrongdoing.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  6. #376
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    Re: Roger Stone Taking the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz62 View Post
    So call for their release and lets all know for sure.
    Isn't that the job of Congress? I'm guessing one or more of their committees has already looked into this and found nothing, hence why nothing has been done about this nothing burger.

  7. #377
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    Re: Roger Stone Taking the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    More lies.

    FBI investigation


    You guys keep trying, and failing. That you keep promoting failures as damning evidence, is just shameful.
    Tea party groups get revenge against IRS as judge approves $3.5 million payout

    "A judge late Wednesday signed off on the settlement between the IRS and hundreds of tea party groups, closing out the last major legal battle over what all sides now agree was unwarranted and illegal targeting for political purposes.

    The IRS agreed to pay $3.5 million to groups that were wronged by the intrusive inspections, and insists it’s made changes so that political targeting can’t occur in the future.

    A few issues are still being fought over in the courts — including whether former IRS senior executive Lois G. Lerner will be allowed to forever shield her deposition explaining her behavior from public view, and whether the IRS should pay attorney fees — but this week’s decision closes out five years of litigation over the targeting itself.

    “It shows that when a government agency desires to target citizens based on their viewpoints, a price will be paid,” said Edward Greim, the lawyer who led the class action case in federal court in Cincinnati.

    The $3.5 million closely approximates the fines the IRS would have had to pay in damages for each intrusive scrutiny of tea party groups, had the agency been found in violation of the law. The money will be split with half going to the lawyers who argued the case and the other half to more than 100 tea party groups, which will get a cut of about $17,000 each."

    IRS subjects tea party groups to new round of scrutiny, publicizes tax return data

    Judge Gives Preliminary OK to $3.5M Settlement of IRS Case

    Victims Of IRS's Tea Party Bias -- And Taxpayers -- Must See Lois Lerner's Testimony, Lawyer Says

    "Lois Lerner, formerly of the Internal Revenue Service when it discriminated against applicants for tax exemptions based on their viewpoints, claims Americans have no right to read statements she made under oath about why she did it.

    Lerner, the former director of the IRS’s Exempt Organizations Division, wants U. S. District Judge Michael Barrett to maintain under seal a deposition she gave in June for a civil suit that victims brought in 2013. Unsealing it would place her safety in jeopardy, she says."

    What is shameful is you posting bs without a link so it can be reviewed. Not unexpected for some of you seek to weaponize our "apolitical" institutions. ..but also a flagrant violation of the rules of this board.
    Thank you

  8. #378
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    Re: Roger Stone Taking the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz62 View Post


    Such is the Democratic set of "morals"
    We are a representative republic. Try showing us your proof of a perjury trap. Start with the documentation on it. Thanks.

    Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
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  9. #379
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    Re: Stone declines Dem request for interview, invokes Fifth Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Sorry for the delay getting back, here. I don't know the specific law, but I do believe a President can indeed pardon anyone he wants accept for himself. It's then up to Congress to hold him accountable for his actions, if they so choose.

    All this in my humble opinion. of course.
    Before a pardon can be official, a judge has to issue an order acknowledging the pardon, and to dismiss the case. If a judge overseeing a defendants case has been presented evidence (perhaps sealed) that the president is a conspirator, any pardons then could be dismissed by the court as obstruction, and that would result in a legal fight.

    Remember, Madison said no man can the judge in his own trail.

    During the Iran-Contra investigation there was a lack of smoking guns tying Reagan and Bush to the conspiracy, so Walsh knew he had a mountain to climb to prove obstruction. OTOH, in Watergate many witnesses were on record implicating Nixon to both federal investigators and the Congress, and that made the legality of any pardons very questionable.

    Trump has been told this and it's why he hasn't simply pardoned his cronies.

  10. #380
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    Re: Roger Stone Taking the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    "A judge late Wednesday signed off on the settlement between the IRS and hundreds of tea party groups, closing out the last major legal battle over what all sides now agree was unwarranted and illegal targeting for political purposes.
    What is shameful is you posting bs without a link so it can be reviewed. Not unexpected for some of you seek to weaponize our "apolitical" institutions. ..but also a flagrant violation of the rules of this board.
    It's freaking facts, it's wikipedia, it's been posted a hundred times, probably 20 by me alone. Stop acting like you arent' just pushing the same old tired conspiracy theories.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy

    They had to investigate twice because of the stupid conspiracy theory right wing nutters.

    In late September 2017, an exhaustive report by the Treasury Department's inspector general found that from 2004 to 2013, the IRS used both conservative and liberal keywords to choose targets for further scrutiny, blunting claims that the issue had been an Obama-era partisan scandal.[2][3] The 115 page report confirmed the findings of the prior 2013 report that some conservative organizations had been unfairly targeted, but also found that the pattern of misconduct had been ongoing since 2004 and was non-partisan in nature.

    Republicans, the party of conspiracy theories, abusing power to investigate based on bull**** claims, and continuing to fan those conspiracy theories as true long after they have been evidenced to be complete and totally bunk.

    Obviously, you cant' stay on topic, which is Roger Stone, Republican connected to Trump, helping Wikileaks time the release of the Russian-hacked DNC emails to help Trump win the election.

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