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Nearly Half of Young Americans Believe US Is Racist and Not 'Greatest' Country, Survey Finds

TU Curmudgeon said:
From FOX News

Nearly Half of Young Americans Believe US Is Racist and Not 'Greatest' Country, Survey Finds
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An alarming new online survey found that national pride is falling among the next generation.

The survey, conducted by polling firm YouGov, reveals that many members of the younger generation (under 38 -- Generation Z and millennials) do not identify with patriotism or American exceptionalism.

The Foundation for Liberty and American Greatness, which sponsored the survey, highlighted some key findings, including that 46 percent of respondents do not agree that America is the greatest country in the world, half believe the country is sexist (50 percent) and racist (49 percent), and 47 percent say America's future should be driven by socialism over capitalism.

Other findings include:

COMMENT:-

Just two minor points before everyone flies into a flap over the results:


  1. "On-line polls" are notoriously inaccurate because they have a marked tendency to use a "self-selected population"; and
  2. the number of people that it requires to obtain statistically reliable results (+/- 3.5%) 95% of the time if the "population" is around 13,500,000 is around 400. The population of 14 to 17 year olds in the US is around 13,500,000. The number of responses for that demographic in this survey was 100. Using only a sample size of 100 produces a "confidence interval" of +/- 50%. [What that means is that, with the surveyed population in this survey, if the recorded result was 50%, then the actual result could be someplace between a low of 0.00% and a high of 100%.

PS - If you take a look at the actual survey questions asked, you will also see that they are incredibly sloppily worded and use terms that are so subjective that it is impossible to tell if one person giving an answer is actually responding to the same OBJECTIVE question that another person who gives the same answer is.
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America can only be exceptional through constant vigilance and maintenance of the systems that can make it so.

We took our collective eye off the ball, and now that some are looking at it again to some degree literally millions don't like where it is an has been.

I'm certainly not proud of what America has done in the past, and it certainly is racist in some fundamental institutionalized systemic ways.
It's also definitely not the greatest country in every respect.

But it can be, if we make it so, for perhaps the first time.
 
j-mac said:
Not even in the slightest...but thanks for proving my point.

Sent from my SM-T587P using Tapatalk
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Your point was that Trump supported Neo Nazis and the KKK after Charlottesville? I didn't know that. Well I'm glad to see you're accepting the truth now, well done.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
You do know the red bolded above it a complete lie... right? Or are you that far out of it?
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Don't blame me that you can't accept reality.

1. It was a rally organized by White Supremacists.

2. A stated goal of the rally was to unite White Supremacists from across the country.

3. These guys were there:

599081d015000021008b654c.jpeg


And these guys:

a2668b92-7c26-4736-b568-feb08d471e03-ax098_4a00_9.jpg



And Trump said some of these guys were "very fine people". Anyone who shows up at a White Supremacist rally, where people are carrying Nazi flags and chanting Nazi slogans, and hangs around to support them, is not a "very fine person".



But hey, I'll admit that the Trump base loved it when he said it, and I'm sure it garnered him some votes:

Neo-Nazis Praise Trump's Response to Charlottesville: 'He Said He Loves Us!'

Did you love it too Gauging? Is that why you're defending his behaviour so vigourously?
 
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queenmandy85 said:
Thanks for clarifying the watermelon reference. I always joke that people in BC actually eat watermelons rather than wear them as helmets. Reality check: I was born and raised in the Kootenays so I have divided loyalties between the Lions and the Riders.
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Cool. I'm like the rest of Canada, a closet Riders fan when my team isn't involved.

Back to the OP, I think rasism is an extension of tribalism which is inate in all human beings. Fortunately, many people repress the instinct. When a relative dies in an accident, we feel real pain. When people are killed in our community, we feel sorry. When a quarter of a million people are killed in a tsunami in Indonesia, it is numbers. Not being racist requires a fair amount of effort to overcome our hardwired tribalism. Just my 2 cents (1.7 cents US).
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Yeah, it definitely requires effort to get past stereotypes and prejudices. I know, I grew up in Canada in the 60s, and you can't get much more straight, white bread, male dominated than that, and of course I picked on all the same prejudices as everyone else.

The fact is, the change in view about racism began in the US, and possibly Britain in the post war years.
If there is anything exceptional about Americans, it is in customer service, according to friends who visit. It goes beyong that, of course. The USA is the first great power with a policy of giving more than taking. You make mistakes in this aspect of foreign policy but that is attributable to the fact than no one has ever done it before.
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I think we can all agree that the States was a beacon of hope for a vast portion of the world for a long time. It's a shame that Trump has exposed and used the ugly side of a (once?) great nation. On the plus side, regular people seem to be rising up, and saying "No!" to the bigotry and racism, so I have hope.
 
Bodhisattva said:
The "foundations" of the country are the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. What parts specifically were intentionally designed to perpetuate discrimination against minorities?
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Seriously? Start with slavery. Segregation. Public education. Construction of ghettos. Discrimination in housing, employment, and the legal system. Refusing women their franchise. Sodomy laws. Refusing gay couples the right to marry. Vandalism of worship buildings. Lynchings. Shall I continue?
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Seriously? Start with slavery. Segregation. Public education. Construction of ghettos. Discrimination in housing, employment, and the legal system. Refusing women their franchise. Sodomy laws. Refusing gay couples the right to marry. Vandalism of worship buildings. Lynchings. Shall I continue?
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I hate to say you're wasting your time explaining that, but.....
 
holbritter said:
No need to rethink it at all. Republicans do not make up the whole of Americans, so no, I don't believe ALL Americans lie about their beliefs. There are NO facts that support his assertion at all, but his own opinion. Show me evidence that all Americans lie about their beliefs. Maybe you two hang around the wrong people :shrug:
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Not sure if you missed the word, but "often" is in there. And that has certainly been true as of late.

And I made my case, that people the people who voted for Trump voted against nearly all of their stated principles. So I stand by my statement:

"You have to admit Kreton has a point when they say that the words of Americans often don't match their actions. "
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
It appears that "the public education system" isn't aimed so much at "education" as it is in "promoting a feeling of 'self-worth' REGARDLESS of factual basis". This, of course, isn't anything new in society and shows in every society by that society's disdain for the more educated and or those with natural advantages.

Everyone is NOT "created equal" and that is a simple fact even if the vote of an uninformed fool carries equal weight to that of someone who has actual training and knowledge.

PS - I'll not even mention "split infinitives".
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What is your overuse of quotation marks about? I have enormous respect for educators. The problem with public education, in my opinion, is the complete lack of accountability for students and the systematic dismantling of the system itself attempted by conservatives for decades.

Oh, most parents suck, too.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
No offense, I am pretty sure you are not an American.
...
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I provided reputable sources to support my assertions. You have provided nothing but uninformed opinion and deflection. Do you have anything of substance to offer? Or are you just going to post more pages of rhetoric?
 
Tanngrisnir said:
I hate to say you're wasting your time explaining that, but.....
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Yeah, I don't know why I bother. I guess I just keep waiting for a light bulb to come on that it's basically just old, white, straight, Christian men who deny that systemic discrimination exists while basically every single member of a minority group, i.e., everyone else, experiences it every day.
 
Bodhisattva said:
The "foundations" of the country are the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. What parts specifically were intentionally designed to perpetuate discrimination against minorities?
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One of the foundations of the USA is discrimination. According to this article, as of only six years ago, atheists could not hold elected seats in a number of states:

Unelectable Atheists: U.S. States That Prohibit Godless Americans From Holding Public Office


That's one reason good Americans need to end this current cycle of bigotry and racism Trump is promoting.
 
JustHanging said:
Cool. I'm like the rest of Canada, a closet Riders fan when my team isn't involved.



Yeah, it definitely requires effort to get past stereotypes and prejudices. I know, I grew up in Canada in the 60s, and you can't get much more straight, white bread, male dominated than that, and of course I picked on all the same prejudices as everyone else.


I think we can all agree that the States was a beacon of hope for a vast portion of the world for a long time. It's a shame that Trump has exposed and used the ugly side of a (once?) great nation. On the plus side, regular people seem to be rising up, and saying "No!" to the bigotry and racism, so I have hope.
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There are few characteristics that are more common among Americans than determination; and I believe that most humans really try hard to be good people. For those reasons, I think the US will try to shove the bigots back in the closet where they have been hiding since the 1960s and try to restore its international reputation. I have hope, too, but very little patience.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
A statement to the effect of "Oh they aren't so bad." can easily be equated with "support" if you define "support" as meaning "non-opposition" - can't it?
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Training for the verbal gymnastics competitions are you?

You certainly can twist things. This, a completely tailor-made, manufactured statement "to the effect of" which is your own statement to the effect of, "I hate Trump and will use anything and everything he says that can and will, if necessary, be taken completely out of context so as to label him a racist."

Its completely disingenuous. That's it, that's all.
 
JustHanging said:
Not sure if you missed the word, but "often" is in there. And that has certainly been true as of late.

And I made my case, that people the people who voted for Trump voted against nearly all of their stated principles. So I stand by my statement:

"You have to admit Kreton has a point when they say that the words of Americans often don't match their actions. "
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Try quoting your whole statement. That wasn't the part I was disputing.
 
prometeus said:
Yea and a legend in your own bigoted delusion.
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Couldn't find any examples of my vaunted bigotedness at all, eh? Or was it you couldn't find the definition of "bigoted" that matched your idea of what a bigot is?

Both, eh?

Hey, what can I say, I am a natural... one of God's gifts to me. Thank you God.
 
JustHanging said:
Don't blame me that you can't accept reality.

1. It was a rally organized by White Supremacists.

2. A stated goal of the rally was to unite White Supremacists from across the country.

3. These guys were there:

snip blah blah

And these guys:

snip blah blah


And Trump said some of these guys were "very fine people". Anyone who shows up at a White Supremacist rally, where people are carrying Nazi flags and chanting Nazi slogans, and hangs around to support them, is not a "very fine person".



But hey, I'll admit that the Trump base loved it when he said it, and I'm sure it garnered him some votes:

snip blah blah

Did you love it too Gauging? Is that why you're defending his behaviour so vigourously?
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Funny, as in strange and disingenuous, that you dont quote President Trump himself.





Everyone with half a brain on up knows he was talking about people on both sides of the confederate statue controversy, those who wanted the statues removed for whatever reasoning and those who wanted them preserved in their original place for whatever reasoning. Unlike most lefties, who prove here they simply cannot understand even if Trump were to hit them with an antifa certified baseball bat up side of the head, Trump understood the reality of the controversy... and understood there WERE some very good people on BOTH SIDES of that debate.

And, as the President went on to describe, there were some very bad folks on BOTH SIDES. He was far from subtle about it. If you stick your fingers in your ears and yell "La la lalalalala" to drown out what he is saying, yeah, then he is saying whatever you want him to say in your own mind.

But do try dealing with the reality. I mean for chissakes... you folks are driving us nuts with your incessant battiness about things exactly in this overly discombobulated and totally lost manner. Yano?

Good lord you folks are so invested in the hate, so invested in your religion of your authoritarian ideologies that you folks just cannot bring yourselves to have a civil conversation. You seem required to assume the worst motives, its required you must impugn without positive purpose, just attempt to destroy all that which does not specifically match your idea of what should be. Kinda scary and that which must be fought.

There but for the grace of God...

Hillary Clinton can add a new name to her list of endorsements – a prominent Ku Klux Klan member who says he likes her because of her "hidden agenda."
Will Quigg, a grand dragon of the Ku Klux Klan's California chapter, told the Telegraph Monday that he would be switching his support from Donald Trump to Clinton.
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https://www.usnews.com/news/article...-quigg-endorses-hillary-clinton-for-president

So, by the lazy standards to which you obviously adhere, you must think the fat lady is a KKKer, do you? Is that why you didn't go for Trump, because this prominent KKK member had switched to the fat lady... maybe you should, too? Is that it?
 
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JustHanging said:
I provided reputable sources to support my assertions. You have provided nothing but uninformed opinion and deflection. Do you have anything of substance to offer? Or are you just going to post more pages of rhetoric?
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Reputable sources? :lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Thank you as well. We'll just have to disagree. I am a minority in more than one way. I have never been treated "generously" by the society nor its various systems. I am, however, an American who chooses to continue living in the US. I love the country, but it was founded on and its systems were intentionally designed to perpetuate discrimination against minorities.

Every non-white American, collectively, will be more numerous than white Americans eventually, but I have always found that scare to be transparent and irrational. It's like saying that ants should worry about all the other insects because there are more of them if they all get together. There is also a zero percent chance that any single racial group will outnumber white Americans in any of our lifetimes, I believe.

I am part of the demographic surveyed. I wouldn't call the US itself racist, but it has many racists in it; and racism permeates its culture and society.
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Once again I thank you for your thoughtful comments. Would that every member (and liberal) were as civil as you.

You have raised the issue of the elephant in the (American) room.

Like 99% of other Americans, I do not dare say many things that I think about this hot potato.

Everyone has his/her opinion about your comments, depending on one's personal experiences. No one can change anyone else's opinion on any topic. These forums are a nice way for us ordinary people to simply blow off some steam. Before the Internet, we ordinary people had nowhere to express our opinions (print newspapers were as strictly moderated as today's Internet discussion forums and social media).


Best wishes
 
JustHanging said:
Yep, and I've shown how silly it is for you to try and claim this gives you some sort of expertise on education.



There is racism, and lots of it. Your POTUS publicly supported Neo Nazis and the KKK, saying some are "very fine people". He led the racist Birther Movement. He has a long and well documented history of racist behaviour. And the base loves it.




"Case in point," anyone can make up complete nonsense, that's the strategy of grade 3 elementary school children. Where is your evidence from reputable sources to support your claim:

"One of the reasons why many young Americans believe in rampant racism in the US is because of educators. "



Otherwise you're just making uninformed (and clearly ridiculous) accusations against educators. Which let's face it, is exactly what you're doing, likely because you would rather not face the fact that a significant segment of your country is racist, and your country is led by a racist president.
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My POTUS believes in the freedom of speech. See, and pay close attention, allowing someone to say something and condoning their actions are two completely different things. You don't understand the difference because you don't believe in freedom of speech.
 
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The Mark said:
America can only be exceptional through constant vigilance and maintenance of the systems that can make it so.

We took our collective eye off the ball, and now that some are looking at it again to some degree literally millions don't like where it is an has been.

I'm certainly not proud of what America has done in the past, and it certainly is racist in some fundamental institutionalized systemic ways.
It's also definitely not the greatest country in every respect.

But it can be, if we make it so, for perhaps the first time.
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The "greatness" of America is NOT so much in its foundations as it is in the fact that it has come so far in overcoming its foundations.

While America continues to make progress in overcoming the flaws in its foundations, it will remain great. When it doesn't then it will end up being relegated to the scrapheap of history along with all other "failed attempts to actualize ideals". That, of course, doesn't mean that the ideals will be "failures" or that others won't attempt to actualize them.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
What is your overuse of quotation marks about?
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I plead guilty to being the product of a classical education (which included the proper use of punctuation marks and the encouragement of vocabulary development) and a massively misspent youth (which was, in fact, one hell of a lot of fun even if I did end up doing things that I wouldn't do again).

MateoMtnClimber said:
I have enormous respect for educators. The problem with public education, in my opinion, is the complete lack of accountability for students and the systematic dismantling of the system itself attempted by conservatives for decades.
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You have just highlighted the difference between "educators" and "educational theorists".

MateoMtnClimber said:
Oh, most parents suck, too.
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If you were propagandized into believing that "Everyone's opinions are equal." then you would think that your child's opinions were equal to yours - wouldn't you?
 
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