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Michael Cohen pleads guilty to lying to Congress about Trump real estate project in Russia

It doesn't have to be an investigation into himself. Just an investigation. You cannot meddle in it. If you start misdirecting investigators and you are not a target of that investigation... you still get in trouble.
hell JFK told his brother to investigate the Mod. Obama told Holder to stop investigating and prosecuting DACA kids so don't tell me President don't "meddle" in investigation. The FBI and DOJ fall under the EXECUTIVE BRANCH the President is their boss.
 
What are you talking about? The investigation occurs under the authority of the president.

You can't meddle with an investigation.

When the House of Representatives drew up Nixon’s articles of impeachment, it explicitly included that he obstructed justice through his efforts to use his clemency powers to undermine the investigation. The articles stated that Nixon had been “endeavouring to cause prospective defendants, and individuals duly tried and convicted, to expect favoured treatment and consideration in return for their silence or false testimony, or rewarding individuals for their silence or false testimony.” Specifically, Nixon had discussed offering clemency to one of the Watergate burglars in exchange for favorable testimony.

link...

hell JFK told his brother to investigate the Mod. Obama told Holder to stop investigating and prosecuting DACA kids so don't tell me President don't "meddle" in investigation. The FBI and DOJ fall under the EXECUTIVE BRANCH the President is their boss.

So sorry... deal with it.
 
Being a Criminal? Serial liar?

Ok So please since the beginning, care to SHARE a SINGLE Predicate of a crime committed please by Donald Trump that would land a criminal charge against him.


Lying.... Well he makes LOTS of Hyperbolic statements.... Yet have not seem him indicted for any of his lies yet either.


Winning the 2016 Elections is NOT a crime.

Trump Tower meeting was STUPID not a crime.
Debunked Knowledge of Wiki leaks release of Emails ( BTW what Wiki leaks did is not an implication of a crime)
Russian Hackers creating propganda, those have been sacntioned, NO crime or connection to Trump.
Russian Trump Hotel. Not a crime..

can you indicate a CRIME in relation to Russian Collusion that set for the special council.

If you ask me to audit TRUMP financially Im sure there are SOME IRS issues... PERIOD... But Cocaine smuggling, Opposing Government funneling, Russian Stripper Peeing funding... doubt it...

care to indicate a crime that was POTENTIALLY comitted?

As to the bolded part...I think that is what is burning them up at the moment...2 years of serious digging and nada, zilch, zip....Which is why I think you see Muller landing with a slew of process crimes like "lying to the FBI"....

He'll write a damning report, but nothing that will have any serious person talking impeachment...In fact, I fully expect that Muller's report will be much like when Comey gave his exoneration of HRC....And that will burn them up even more...
 
As to the bolded part...I think that is what is burning them up at the moment...2 years of serious digging and nada, zilch, zip....Which is why I think you see Muller landing with a slew of process crimes like "lying to the FBI"....

He'll write a damning report, but nothing that will have any serious person talking impeachment...In fact, I fully expect that Muller's report will be much like when Comey gave his exoneration of HRC....And that will burn them up even more...
Zip, nada, zilch must equal dozens of indictments and multiple convictions in alternative facts Rightwingland, while a whole lot of nothing from years of investigating Hillary equals “Lock her up!” :roll:
 
FUNNY! Though..... He was going to rot in jail for his OWN taxi business. Not really what he did for trump?
Ah, no. The only reason Cohen was investigated was because of the Mueller investigation. Indictment on those "unrelated crimes", puts Cohen in a vulnerable position, and helped illicit his cooperation with federal investigators. Now mueller moved another piece on the chess board in securing his plea, putting Cohen back in his court, and naming "individual 1", as Donald Trump.

If you don't think there is more going on here, I think you're fooling yourself. You're certainly not fooling me.
4) Obstruction comes after the initial predicate of a potentially false accusation of collusion ("POTENTIAL" false accusation) I know this is a stupid way to say it, but how can you obstruct something you know you didnt do... I know bear with me...

Obstruction is a serious crime.
Perjury is a serious crime.
Both are felonies, and may result in Orange Jumpsuits.

You do realize that obstruction is a crime, and it's about obstruction and intent, an ongoing investigation, and your idea that "but Trump was innocent" is meaningless in this context, right?
Do you understand that white collar crimes of conspiracy/corruption are very difficult to prove because it's all hidden, often within the tight ranks of people who are all incentivized to deny, deflect, and destroy accusations/evidence? If obstruction was not a crime, they could get away with anything, just order it to stop, it's stopped. case closed. You have to understand how incredible terrible that would be, and the corruption it would quickly lead to.
 
As to the bolded part...I think that is what is burning them up at the moment...2 years of serious digging and nada, zilch, zip....Which is why I think you see Muller landing with a slew of process crimes like "lying to the FBI"....
He'll write a damning report, but nothing that will have any serious person talking impeachment...In fact, I fully expect that Muller's report will be much like when Comey gave his exoneration of HRC....And that will burn them up even more...

The only burning issue is how slow the wheels of justice move, in relation to how flagrantly the president continues to commit crimes.
I'll take that bet, I think there will be felony accusations against Trump, although DOJ won't indict him, because of DOJ policy, it will be laid out for Congress as a crime, that is supported. Entirely unlike HRC.
 
You can't meddle with an investigation.

When the House of Representatives drew up Nixon’s articles of impeachment, it explicitly included that he obstructed justice through his efforts to use his clemency powers to undermine the investigation. The articles stated that Nixon had been “endeavouring to cause prospective defendants, and individuals duly tried and convicted, to expect favoured treatment and consideration in return for their silence or false testimony, or rewarding individuals for their silence or false testimony.” Specifically, Nixon had discussed offering clemency to one of the Watergate burglars in exchange for favorable testimony.

link...



So sorry... deal with it.

As per Comey-- at the time-- there was no criminal investigation. As such, no obstruction.

But as other note indicated, there was criminal investigations which President Obama meddled with he ordered them stopped. No great outrage from that angle aa the prez is allowed to do that.
 
As to the bolded part...I think that is what is burning them up at the moment...2 years of serious digging and nada, zilch, zip....Which is why I think you see Muller landing with a slew of process crimes like "lying to the FBI"....

He'll write a damning report, but nothing that will have any serious person talking impeachment...In fact, I fully expect that Muller's report will be much like when Comey gave his exoneration of HRC....And that will burn them up even more...

Care to tell us how you think you know at this point, what Mueller has and hasn't found?
 
After all this time of cohen being a mueller pressure point on Trump not until just yesterday when cohen finally admitted he'd been lying did trump flip out on cohen. And if you think trump has financial skeletons, you'd have to think that his long time lawyer/fixer guy has the goods on that too.

I think since cohen pleaded guilty too Campaign finance laws and released the Audio recording Trump has been flipping out on cohen NOT just yesterday?

Financial Skeletons kinda hard to hide forever especially being trump pretty flamboyant No? Again Im Sure IRS has Tabs on him....and its in the hands of both the Federal Government and Mueller... Doubt its ground breaking financial crimes. (BUT could be?)
 
I think since cohen pleaded guilty too Campaign finance laws and released the Audio recording Trump has been flipping out on cohen NOT just yesterday?

Financial Skeletons kinda hard to hide forever especially being trump pretty flamboyant No? Again Im Sure IRS has Tabs on him....and its in the hands of both the Federal Government and Mueller... Doubt its ground breaking financial crimes. (BUT could be?)

I'm sure financial crimes will be at the very least a portion of it all. Especially since one of his former tax laywer's office got raided yesterday as well as Deutche Bank recently that funneled trump $'s when no other bank would.
 
As to the bolded part...I think that is what is burning them up at the moment...2 years of serious digging and nada, zilch, zip....Which is why I think you see Muller landing with a slew of process crimes like "lying to the FBI"....

He'll write a damning report, but nothing that will have any serious person talking impeachment...In fact, I fully expect that Muller's report will be much like when Comey gave his exoneration of HRC....And that will burn them up even more...

Honestly, I agree... I was listening to Dershowitz today and he said something interesting. ALL the indictments that are coming out have to do with stuff that Happened AFTER the special council occured. Lying to FBI etc. NOTHING actually within the scope of the special council.

Not one American has been indicted for ANY ties to Russia.

Only crimes current are

1) Lying to FBI agents.
2) Financial crimes UN related to Russian and yesteryears 2014,2012,2008 etc....


I too agree.. utimately Mueller will release a finding that

1) Russians did indeed intervene in our 2016
2) No American has direct knowledge or participation
3) While Trumps actions are unbecoming, they are NOT impeachable due to his constitutional obligations and rights.

4) We shall see what financial ties he might have.... And CFL...will likely be fines...
4a) SIDE NOTE..... pertaining to CFL...... if Stormy is starting to fall apart with Avennatti, does that CHANGE anything among the NDA and the intent to violate laws in relation to Campaign finance? The reporting of Stormy's NDA? Im mean that thing is falling apart fast... stormy accusing Avennatti not disclosing money, bringing defamation suites without authorization...


So again we shall see.... cohen lying because he tried to collaborate with trump is his OWN action unless there is proof that there was coordination to do so.... but that doesnt make sense to charge Cohen the WANT trump... so likely cohen acted on his own.....

sad how far this has come....
 
Ah, no. The only reason Cohen was investigated was because of the Mueller investigation. Indictment on those "unrelated crimes", puts Cohen in a vulnerable position, and helped illicit his cooperation with federal investigators. Now mueller moved another piece on the chess board in securing his plea, putting Cohen back in his court, and naming "individual 1", as Donald Trump.

If you don't think there is more going on here, I think you're fooling yourself. You're certainly not fooling me.


Obstruction is a serious crime.
Perjury is a serious crime.
Both are felonies, and may result in Orange Jumpsuits.

You do realize that obstruction is a crime, and it's about obstruction and intent, an ongoing investigation, and your idea that "but Trump was innocent" is meaningless in this context, right?
Do you understand that white collar crimes of conspiracy/corruption are very difficult to prove because it's all hidden, often within the tight ranks of people who are all incentivized to deny, deflect, and destroy accusations/evidence? If obstruction was not a crime, they could get away with anything, just order it to stop, it's stopped. case closed. You have to understand how incredible terrible that would be, and the corruption it would quickly lead to.

YES I understand that those connected to trump are feeling the wrath of Mueller.

Manafort... Years of Financial crimes. hes going to JAIL FOR HIS ACTIONS. Nothing relating to Trump per say
Cohen going to jail for his financial crimes.... Nothing to do with Trump per say.

Why does Mueller need to move the chess piece, HE already HAD Cohen checkmated and was in his hands... by putting him back in play means that his checkmate was meaningless. What Im trying to say is that MUELLER at the time of the plea deal already KNEW Cohen lied that is why his is pleading guilty? What are you trying to infer Cohen can do NOW to the president that he was NOT already willing to do PRIOR to this new specific plea deal?


Yes Obstruction IS a crime I get it.

The main point is the Firing of Comey was obstruction..... the problem that I am debating is what takes priority? The fact that the POTUS has a constitutional right to fire an FBI director without cause. Or because he made a comment on TV to relieve pressure on the Russian collusion story. ONE of which he already denies in its entirety.

Im saying... and hear me out. SAY there is ZERO collusion say Mueller has NOTHING.... So the collusion thing is bogus. He was tired of it and just said screw it Im tired of Comey and fired him thinking comey was going to push Russian narrative. EVEN though there was Nothing with the Russia. they have to justify obstruction? so again like you state... its going to be "tough" to prove obstruction I agree..... I dont think its going to be an easy task.

cohen slipping like, Manafort situation is starting to take the credibility of the Mueller special council and turning it into a Jerry Springer episode?
 
We don't know if that was the case.

For all we know Trump told the truth and that sunk Cohen

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Trump?? Tell the truth???:lamo:lamo:lamo:rofl:rofl
 
We don't know if that was the case.

For all we know Trump told the truth and that sunk Cohen

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What on earth gives you the idea that Trump is telling the truth? lol...Jesus Christ has a better chance of falling out of the sky today than anything truthful coming out of Trump's mouth on this Russian money thing.
 
I'm sure financial crimes will be at the very least a portion of it all. Especially since one of his former tax laywer's office got raided yesterday as well as Deutche Bank recently that funneled trump $'s when no other bank would.

Can I fairly call this out as "Speculation" ONLY? So, blind accusation that just because his former Tax lawyer is raided TRUMP did something illegal?

I mean Cohen got raided because of trump But Cohen is going to jail for his financing misdeeds

Manafort is going to jail and got raid because of association with trump but because of HIS financial misdeeds.

Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI.... Because his association of he was questioned, BUT ultimately facing jail because HE lied.

OWN the decisions they made.


I am still waiting for an ACTUAL CRIME against Trump, LIKE a taxi funneling business or a Foreign government lobbying firm These guys are going to jail because they broke the law and unfortunately they were caught because Mueller is investigating EVERYTHING unrelated to the initial Predicate of Russian Collusion and then supposed obstruction.

WHILE I hate to say they would not have been caught if this Special Council witch hunt didnt occur.... Is it not true that likely if this never happened Cohen, Papdagolous, Manafort would still be walking around free as a bird?
 
Zip, nada, zilch must equal dozens of indictments and multiple convictions in alternative facts Rightwingland, while a whole lot of nothing from years of investigating Hillary equals “Lock her up!” :roll:

Nope, you're right about one thing...HRC has been successful at getting away with her crimes, and crimes they were. But, harping on 'Lock her up' is kind of silly at present when we all know that she will get away with it...

As far as your "multiple indictments/convictions" blather...The truth of the matter is that of all of the indictments, most were on people that you know, I know, and everyone knows will NEVER see the inside of an American courtroom in the matter, so those are for show. Worthless in the grand scheme...As for the indictments of Trump campaign aids, or others, all we have seen so far are convictions of either crimes that have nothing what so ever to do with any so called 'collusion' in the 2016 election, or are for very minor process crimes like for instance George P. serving now a 14 day sentence on one count of lying to prosecutors, and do you know what his stupid lie was? He mis remembered the date that he first met the plant, Misfud....Wow! big score there right? 14 days! If I were Muller, at this point I'd be embarrassed to have wasted so much time and money on literally a giant perjury trap.
 
The only burning issue is how slow the wheels of justice move, in relation to how flagrantly the president continues to commit crimes.
I'll take that bet, I think there will be felony accusations against Trump, although DOJ won't indict him, because of DOJ policy, it will be laid out for Congress as a crime, that is supported. Entirely unlike HRC.

The hyperbole of accusing the President of committing crimes is unproductive...Get back to me when he is either brought up on articles of impeachment, or is later indicted for something...Until then it just reeks of sour grapes.
 
Care to tell us how you think you know at this point, what Mueller has and hasn't found?

Some of it is a guess sure...No more than your own guesses of how bad it will be for the President...But, saying that all Muller and Co. have so far are a handful of process crimes, and characters that will never be tried is a fact.
 
The hyperbole of accusing the President of committing crimes is unproductive...Get back to me when he is either brought up on articles of impeachment, or is later indicted for something...Until then it just reeks of sour grapes.

Its funny I keep hearing, That he committed a crime

1) Secretary of State having an unsecured unrecorded personal server. NOT within the "Presidential Records act" as been thrown around with Ivanka
2) Transmitting Classified Document over the unapproved unsecured server
3) Bleach Bit, server and physical evidence AFTER a subpoena is issued


THESE things ACTUALLY happened.... USUALLY when a crime happens. you take it to court to adjudicate. To see if the accused is guilty or NOT guilty. HRC never saw a court because the AG refused to prosecute. SHE REFUSED to do her JOB.


Can anyone NAME an actual crime committed. NOT speculative. LIKE did Trump IN FACT hand money to Putin. Is there a recording with Putin and Trump in a bar with stripping pissing on them saying I want you Putin to mess with our elections so I can win.


NAME me the crime... So when Mueller releases his findings I can match it with the accused CRIME... WHAT CRIME? not just talking points CRIME.

Having an unverified server and transmitting classified documents on it... is a crime. THAT HAPPENED. that needs to go to court and be adjudicate. IT does NOT mean HRC is guilty but it should have seen the inside of a court room which it never did.
 
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Nope, you're right about one thing...HRC has been successful at getting away with her crimes, and crimes they were. But, harping on 'Lock her up' is kind of silly at present when we all know that she will get away with it...

As far as your "multiple indictments/convictions" blather...The truth of the matter is that of all of the indictments, most were on people that you know, I know, and everyone knows will NEVER see the inside of an American courtroom in the matter, so those are for show. Worthless in the grand scheme...As for the indictments of Trump campaign aids, or others, all we have seen so far are convictions of either crimes that have nothing what so ever to do with any so called 'collusion' in the 2016 election, or are for very minor process crimes like for instance George P. serving now a 14 day sentence on one count of lying to prosecutors, and do you know what his stupid lie was? He mis remembered the date that he first met the plant, Misfud....Wow! big score there right? 14 days! If I were Muller, at this point I'd be embarrassed to have wasted so much time and money on literally a giant perjury trap.

If I was Trump I'd give a pardon to Papadopoulos and Corsi and commute Manafort's sentence after he had served two year and at the end of Trump's first term. Yes I believe he will serve a full 4 years.

Papadopoulos' conviction needs to be expunged that whole thing is a travesty of justice.
 
Its funny I keep hearing, That he committed a crime

1) Secretary of State having an unsecured unrecorded personal server. NOT within the "Presidential Records act" as been thrown around with Ivanka
2) Transmitting Classified Document over the unapproved unsecured server
3) Bleach Bit, server and physical evidence AFTER a peonage is issued


THESE things ACTUALLY happened.... USUALLY when a crime happens. you take it to court to adjudicate. To see if the accused is guilty or NOT guilty. HRC never saw a court because the AG refused to prosecute. SHE REFUSED to do her JOB.


Can anyone NAME an actual crime committed. NOT speculative. LIKE did Trump IN FACT hand money to Putin. Is there a recording with Putin and Trump in a bar with stripping pissing on them saying I want you Putin to mess with our elections so I can win.


NAME me the crime... So when Mueller releases his findings I can match it with the accused CRIME... WHAT CRIME? not just talking points CRIME.

Having an unverified server and transmitting classified documents on it... is a crime. THAT HAPPENED. that needs to go to court and be adjudicate. IT does NOT mean HRC is guilty but it should have seen the inside of a court room which it never did.


I couldn't agree more...And it sucks, but the truth of the matter is that in the HRC matters (multiple), as well as this Muller thing highlights to regular American's like myself that there are two different standards of justice being handed down in today's America....And, as a former member of the military, as well as a regular working guy, that just sucks.
 
I couldn't agree more...And it sucks, but the truth of the matter is that in the HRC matters (multiple), as well as this Muller thing highlights to regular American's like myself that there are two different standards of justice being handed down in today's America....And, as a former member of the military, as well as a regular working guy, that just sucks.

THIS IS Exactly that.

I am prior military.. I got briefed many times on Classified material. UCMJ was pretty strict about mishandling.. IF I screwed up big time I would see Leavenworth... PERIOD.

First lady of Arkansas, First lady of the US, Senator, Secretary of State This has NOTHING to do with Trump but principle of justice.

Kavanaugh was another..... To accuse WITHOUT proof.

Trump is accused of collusion with Russia, without proof.

Obstruction of justice is a whole OTHER issue unrelated.

Papadapolous is going to jail
Manafort is going to jail
Cohen is going to jail.

ALL of HRC's people got immunity
What about Louis Lerner that pleaded the 5th you can do that and NEVER see the inside of jail cell?

What kinda of Justice system is that..... ALL Trump associates that fairly committed crimes will got to jail.

HRC & Obama people that committed crimes are doing book tours and sitting in their lawn chairs drinking Ice tea..... I have an issue with that.

IF trump Messed up and found guilt he should see the inside of jail cell too, but until then its all speculation.... HRC is NOT... it happened but AG refused to take it to court to properly adjudicate. Thats FACT
 
You cannot pardon to obstruct justice. Sorry. It's written in the nixon impeachment charges. Fact.
Trump was fired Comey because Comey did a POOR job and also would not tell the public that Trump wasn't under investigation. That simply is NOT obstruction of justice. Sorry that is in his absolute powers as President of the United States. You are just barking up the wrong tree. The Senate is not going to convict Trump in and impeachment trial. You MIGHT get it through the house but not through th Senate like they did with Clinton. You might as well start dreaming of another charge.
 
See, that's the problem isn't it?

You can't show illegality

You don't have evidence of collusion

You don't have a final report, or rebuttal

But, you've made up your mind as to what has happened

That's a neat trick.

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Hmmm very similar to what happened to Hillary Clinton???
 
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