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[W:363]Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Atomic Kid said:
Well you better grab a rake and get busy then Jack. Good God! How much longer are we going have to suffer this fool of a President?
Click to expand...

I don't think this proposal of Trump's is one of his top ten policy proposals but it is a
significant plus in that Trump has apparently influenced Jerry Brown on the need
to manage the forests and woodlands, Jerry needs
now to deal with the eco-wakos to implement some of Trump's suggestions.

Before California was run into the ground by lunatic Leftists, they had a statewide
program of forestry crews (with a large portion of these crews
recruited from the homeless population) clearing millions of tons of
highly combustible deadfall to reduce the threat of large uncontrollable forest fires..
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'


[h=1]Was Global Warming A Significant Factor in California’s Camp Fire? The Answer is Clearly No.[/h]From Cliff Mass Weather and Climate Blog Tuesday, November 20, 2018 The Camp Fire that struck the northern California town of Paradise and vicinity is a profoundly disturbing environmental disaster of first magnitude. Nearly 100 people have lost their lives, approximately 10,000 homes have been lost, a major community has essentially been destroyed, and millions…
Continue reading →
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Jack Hays said:
There is nothing conservative or liberal about accurately identifying decades of misguided forest management as a key contributor to the severity of these fires. Drought schmought -- there's nothing new or unnatural happening with the weather.
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O Dear,another Trump Lackey....Just give us a call to help,we are always ready to help America in their Fire Zones...Australia...Shame your Idiot Trump doesen't don a fire suit and help the Wonderful Fire Fighters of America,instead of sitting on his Fat Ass,spewing about things he knows absolutely NOTHING about...but we all know here in Paradise what a NINCOMPOOP that GINGER HEADED IDIOT IS,shame some Americans don't...You do realise that Trump thinks Finland is in Africa...LOL
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

theliq said:
O Dear,another Trump Lackey....Just give us a call to help,we are always ready to help America in their Fire Zones...Australia...Shame your Idiot Trump doesen't don a fire suit and help the Wonderful Fire Fighters of America,instead of sitting on his Fat Ass,spewing about things he knows absolutely NOTHING about...but we all know here in Paradise what a NINCOMPOOP that GINGER HEADED IDIOT IS,shame some Americans don't...You do realise that Trump thinks Finland is in Africa...LOL
Click to expand...

I neither supported nor voted for Trump, and I don't support him now, but concerning wildfires the facts are the facts.


Tree-ring analysis explains physiology behind drought intolerance

Public Release: 26-Dec-2018 Oregon State University CORVALLIS, Ore. – Tree rings tell the story of what’s happening physiologically as fire suppression makes forests more dense and less tolerant of drought, pests and wildfires, new research shows. Scientists at Oregon State University and Utah State University studied 2,800 hectares of mixed-conifer forest in central Oregon, with…


Trump Overhauled The Way We Prevent Wildfires And The Media Totally Missed It

From The Daily Caller Trump Takes Steps To Prevent Catastrophic Forest Fires, Including More Logging 7:22 AM 12/24/2018 | Energy Michael Bastasch | Energy Editor President Trump issued an executive order allowing agencies to do more to prevent massive wildfires. The order came one day after Trump signed GOP-backed wildfire legislation. Wildfires have burned more…

2 days ago December 25, 2018 in Wildfires.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[h=1]Trump was right about “raking” Finnish forests[/h][FONT=&quot]Heavy machinery “rakes” Finland’s forest floors after tree cutting, greatly reducing fire risks Mikko Paunio President Donald Trump was recently ridiculed for telling California Governor Jerry Brown that the Golden State should do as my country does. Trump critics laughed at what some called his “bizarre” claim that foresters in Finland “rake” areas that have…
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Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

The issue of wildfire prevention in California is complex.

More logging: Well, sure, thin out the trees and there will be fewer fires. But, logging isn't always done in a way that prevents fires. In the past, loggers have taken out the big trees and left behind the brush, small trees, and logging slash, making the fire situation worse.

But proper logging does help prevent fires.

And, much of California, the most fire prone parts, are not forested. They are chaparral, Spanish for "brush land," and have no commercially valuable timber. Historically, these areas have burned every few years. Today, there are homeowners there who aren't exactly in favor of letting them burn. Fuel loads keep building up in those places.

A few years ago, one of the biggest fires in history of the state burned exactly two buildings and left a huge area much better than it had been. That was called the Rough Fire, after a small creek in the area.

And, while the self described "conservatives" are heavily invested in denying modern science and calling global warming a "hoax," the recent droughts are a fact of life. Whether they are indicative of global warming or not is immaterial. Moreover, extremely dry air and high winds make for some spectacular fires.

During one drought year, the grass did not grow, cattle had no feed, and ranchers sold off their herds. The following year, the rains came, the grass grew, and there were few cattle to eat it. The result was a lot of dry grass, which tends to be somewhat flammable. Everything is connected.

So, wildfires in California, as elsewhere, are complicated, just like health care. Who knew?
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Dittohead not! said:
The issue of wildfire prevention in California is complex.

More logging: Well, sure, thin out the trees and there will be fewer fires. But, logging isn't always done in a way that prevents fires. In the past, loggers have taken out the big trees and left behind the brush, small trees, and logging slash, making the fire situation worse.

But proper logging does help prevent fires.

And, much of California, the most fire prone parts, are not forested. They are chaparral, Spanish for "brush land," and have no commercially valuable timber. Historically, these areas have burned every few years. Today, there are homeowners there who aren't exactly in favor of letting them burn. Fuel loads keep building up in those places.

A few years ago, one of the biggest fires in history of the state burned exactly two buildings and left a huge area much better than it had been. That was called the Rough Fire, after a small creek in the area.

And, while the self described "conservatives" are heavily invested in denying modern science and calling global warming a "hoax," the recent droughts are a fact of life. Whether they are indicative of global warming or not is immaterial. Moreover, extremely dry air and high winds make for some spectacular fires.

During one drought year, the grass did not grow, cattle had no feed, and ranchers sold off their herds. The following year, the rains came, the grass grew, and there were few cattle to eat it. The result was a lot of dry grass, which tends to be somewhat flammable. Everything is connected.

So, wildfires in California, as elsewhere, are complicated, just like health care. Who knew?
Click to expand...

I think that everyone is missing the obvious.

The only logical way to get people to do more is to cut their funding so that they cannot even do what they are doing now.

Well?

Isn't it?
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[h=1]California’s Largest Utility Could Face Murder Charges For Sparking Wildfires[/h][FONT=&quot]From The Daily Caller 3:56 PM 12/31/2018 | Energy Tim Pearce | Energy Reporter California’s largest utility could face murder charges or manslaughter charges if found responsible for sparking recent, deadly wildfires around the state, according to the state attorney general. California Attorney General Xavier Becerra, a Democrat, filed documents Friday with Northern California’s federal…
Continue reading →
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Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Top Cat said:
And he lost by 3 million votes.
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Actually Mr. Trump WON by 77 votes. (I added it up wrong earlier.)
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Jack Hays said:
[FONT="][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/01/02/californias-largest-utility-could-face-murder-charges-for-sparking-wildfires/"]
Burning_Building_Paradise_Reuters-e1546288257560-460x260.jpg
[/URL][/FONT]
[h=1]California’s Largest Utility Could Face Murder Charges For Sparking Wildfires[/h][FONT="][FONT=inherit]From The Daily Caller 3:56 PM 12/31/2018 | Energy Tim Pearce | Energy Reporter California’s largest utility could face murder charges or manslaughter charges if found responsible for sparking recent, deadly wildfires around the state, according to the state attorney general. California Attorney General Xavier Becerra, a Democrat, filed documents Friday with Northern California’s federal…[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/01/02/californias-largest-utility-could-face-murder-charges-for-sparking-wildfires/"]Continue reading →[/URL][/FONT]
[/FONT]
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I rather suspect that the company will be pointing out that the bozos who shot out the insulators just might have had a bit to do with causing the fire - don't you?
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

TU Curmudgeon said:
I rather suspect that the company will be pointing out that the bozos who shot out the insulators just might have had a bit to do with causing the fire - don't you?
Click to expand...

I believe the company would have mentioned that if it were a factor.

"California investigators found that PG&E equipment caused 12 of 15 major wildfires that hit the state in 2017."

[FONT=&quot]". . . However, CAL FIRE determined “12 Northern California wildfires in the October 2017 Fire Siege were caused by electric power and distribution lines, conductors and the failure of power poles,” according to a recent release. . . .[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Many of the fires were caused by trees hitting power lines, including the Atlas fire in Napa County that killed six people. Investigators determined the 51,624-acre fire stemmed from two locations where trees came into contact with power lines owned by Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The 36,523-acre Redwood Fire in Mendocino County was, once again, caused by parts of trees falling into PG&E power lines, according to CAL FIRE. . . . [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]CAL FIRE referred eight of the 12 fire reports to state prosecutors for review “due to evidence of alleged violations of state law.” PG&E’s stock price fell on CAL FIRE’s findings as the company could face criminal prosecution. . . ."[/FONT]
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

TU Curmudgeon said:
I think that everyone is missing the obvious.

The only logical way to get people to do more is to cut their funding so that they cannot even do what they are doing now.

Well?

Isn't it?
Click to expand...

It's working in the national parks just now.
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Jack Hays said:
I believe the company would have mentioned that if it were a factor.

[FONT=&]"California investigators [/FONT]found[FONT=&] that PG&E equipment caused 12 of 15 major wildfires that hit the state in 2017."

[/FONT][FONT="]". . . However, CAL FIRE determined “12 Northern California wildfires in the October 2017 Fire Siege were caused by electric power and distribution lines, conductors and the failure of power poles,” according to a recent [URL="http://calfire.ca.gov/communications/downloads/newsreleases/2018/2017_WildfireSiege_Cause.pdf"]release[/URL]. . . .[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Many of the fires were caused by trees hitting power lines, including the Atlas fire in Napa County that killed six people. Investigators determined the 51,624-acre fire stemmed from two locations where trees came into contact with power lines owned by Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E).[/FONT]
[FONT="]The 36,523-acre Redwood Fire in Mendocino County was, once again, caused by parts of trees falling into PG&E power lines, according to CAL FIRE. . . . [/FONT]
[FONT="]CAL FIRE referred eight of the 12 fire reports to state prosecutors for review “due to evidence of alleged violations of state law.” PG&E’s stock price fell on CAL FIRE’s findings as the company could face criminal prosecution. . . ."[/FONT]
Click to expand...

There you go. Let's just outlaw power transmission lines.

If P G and E have to pay for the damage caused by wildfires, the cost of electricity will be so high no one will be able to afford it anyway.
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Dittohead not! said:
There you go. Let's just outlaw power transmission lines.

If P G and E have to pay for the damage caused by wildfires, the cost of electricity will be so high no one will be able to afford it anyway.
Click to expand...

I agree with you.
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Jack Hays said:
I believe the company would have mentioned that if it were a factor.
Click to expand...

If PG&E had not already "mentioned it", neither would I.

It was in the news, but I thought that the article was so non-unusual that I didn't bother posting a link to it at the time.

However, FYI

Camp Fire: PG&E notifies state regulators that key electrical tower had damage before the deadly blaze

Jack Hays said:
"California investigators found that PG&E equipment caused 12 of 15 major wildfires that hit the state in 2017."

[FONT="]". . . However, CAL FIRE determined “12 Northern California wildfires in the October 2017 Fire Siege were caused by electric power and distribution lines, conductors and the failure of power poles,” according to a recent [URL="http://calfire.ca.gov/communications/downloads/newsreleases/2018/2017_WildfireSiege_Cause.pdf"]release[/URL]. . . .[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Many of the fires were caused by trees hitting power lines, including the Atlas fire in Napa County that killed six people. Investigators determined the 51,624-acre fire stemmed from two locations where trees came into contact with power lines owned by Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E).[/FONT]
[FONT="]The 36,523-acre Redwood Fire in Mendocino County was, once again, caused by parts of trees falling into PG&E power lines, according to CAL FIRE. . . . [/FONT]
[FONT="]CAL FIRE referred eight of the 12 fire reports to state prosecutors for review “due to evidence of alleged violations of state law.” PG&E’s stock price fell on CAL FIRE’s findings as the company could face criminal prosecution. . . ."[/FONT]
Click to expand...

I do note that "referred" "for review" "due to evidence" of "alleged violations" is NOT the same thing as "was found guilty of" - unless, of course, the subject of the matter referred was Hillary Clinton in which case it would be the equivalent of "found guilty, sentenced, executed, and their ashes dumped down the toilet".
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

TU Curmudgeon said:
If PG&E had not already "mentioned it", neither would I.

It was in the news, but I thought that the article was so non-unusual that I didn't bother posting a link to it at the time.

However, FYI

Camp Fire: PG&E notifies state regulators that key electrical tower had damage before the deadly blaze



I do note that "referred" "for review" "due to evidence" of "alleged violations" is NOT the same thing as "was found guilty of" - unless, of course, the subject of the matter referred was Hillary Clinton in which case it would be the equivalent of "found guilty, sentenced, executed, and their ashes dumped down the toilet".
Click to expand...

Looks like firearms vandalism is only claimed at one site. That won't get them off the hook.
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Jack Hays said:
Looks like firearms vandalism is only claimed at one site. That won't get them off the hook.
Click to expand...

It may, or it may not.

What the issues were at other sites, I have no more idea than you do.

While I can agree that accusations have been made, I cannot agree that an accusation is the same thing as proof of guilt, nor can I agree that a lack of conviction is the same thing as proof of innocence.

On this point I appear to differ with the majority of Americans.
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

TU Curmudgeon said:
It may, or it may not.

What the issues were at other sites, I have no more idea than you do.

While I can agree that accusations have been made, I cannot agree that an accusation is the same thing as proof of guilt, nor can I agree that a lack of conviction is the same thing as proof of innocence.

On this point I appear to differ with the majority of Americans.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't disagree with anything in your post.
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

[h=2]Man-made US bushfires caused by PG&E, being sued for $30b: may take down some renewables too[/h]
Everyone “knows” fires are caused by climate change, but how many Australians know that when it comes to the huge Californian fires of October 2017 as many as 750 civil suits have been filed against Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E),the 150 year old utility in California? The fire bill is running at around $30 billion dollars. PG&E are facing financial ruin, calling in a Chapter 11, and going broke.
That’s bad news for people filing the claims, but it is also bad news for renewable energy.PG&E are a major holder of some $35 billion dollars in long term green energy contracts many of which are at above market rates. PG&E may not have to pay out those high prices which means the Green industry will be hurt too.
What goes around comes around. Bad science begets bad business. The Green Industry could have cared enough about the environment to speak out about reducing fire risks through managing fuel loads, and the fires would have been less damaging. Instead they were busy putting up windfarms to stop bushfires instead.
Meanwhile their friends are still doing their best to increase fuel loads in order to reduce CO2 (and stop bushfires).
[h=3]PG&E Bankruptcy Threatens California Wildfire Suits, Green-Power Contracts[/h]California fire investigators have determined that PG&E power lines sparked 18 wildfires in October 2017 that burned nearly 200,000 acres, destroyed 3,256 structures and killed 22 people.
California’s largest utility said Monday it was preparing to file for Chapter 11 protection before the end of the month as it faces more than $30 billion in potential liability costs related to its role in sparking wildfires in recent years. Electricity and natural gas would continue to flow to homes and businesses, PG&E said.
PG&E Corp.’s plan to file for bankruptcy protection has enormous repercussions for everyone from the homeowners suing the utility for California wildfire damages to the companies that furnish it with green energy. — WSJ
If only green energy was actually competitive, they could have just renegotiated with some other buyer.
Keep reading →




 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[h=1]California’s Wildfire History – in one map[/h][FONT=&quot]Here is an interesting interactive graphic that depicts perimeters of more than 100 years of California wildfires recorded by Cal Fire and the U.S. Geological Survey. The map below shows all the cumulative fires from 1878 to 2018. It seems as if there is very little of California that has not been touched by wildfire.…
Continue reading →
[/FONT]
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Jack Hays said:
[h=2]Man-made US bushfires caused by PG&E, being sued for $30b: may take down some renewables too[/h]
Everyone “knows” fires are caused by climate change, but how many Australians know that when it comes to the huge Californian fires of October 2017 as many as 750 civil suits have been filed against Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E),the 150 year old utility in California? The fire bill is running at around $30 billion dollars. PG&E are facing financial ruin, calling in a Chapter 11, and going broke.
That’s bad news for people filing the claims, but it is also bad news for renewable energy.PG&E are a major holder of some $35 billion dollars in long term green energy contracts many of which are at above market rates. PG&E may not have to pay out those high prices which means the Green industry will be hurt too.
What goes around comes around. Bad science begets bad business. The Green Industry could have cared enough about the environment to speak out about reducing fire risks through managing fuel loads, and the fires would have been less damaging. Instead they were busy putting up windfarms to stop bushfires instead.
Meanwhile their friends are still doing their best to increase fuel loads in order to reduce CO2 (and stop bushfires).
[h=3]PG&E Bankruptcy Threatens California Wildfire Suits, Green-Power Contracts[/h]California fire investigators have determined that PG&E power lines sparked 18 wildfires in October 2017 that burned nearly 200,000 acres, destroyed 3,256 structures and killed 22 people.
California’s largest utility said Monday it was preparing to file for Chapter 11 protection before the end of the month as it faces more than $30 billion in potential liability costs related to its role in sparking wildfires in recent years. Electricity and natural gas would continue to flow to homes and businesses, PG&E said.
PG&E Corp.’s plan to file for bankruptcy protection has enormous repercussions for everyone from the homeowners suing the utility for California wildfire damages to the companies that furnish it with green energy. — WSJ
If only green energy was actually competitive, they could have just renegotiated with some other buyer.
Keep reading →
Click to expand...

You might want to add

Private electrical system caused fire that killed 22, California says

to your C&P list.
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Jack Hays said:
[FONT="][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/01/26/californias-wildfire-history-in-one-map/"]
CA-fire-map-460x260.png
[/URL][/FONT]
[h=1]California’s Wildfire History – in one map[/h][FONT="][FONT=inherit]Here is an interesting interactive graphic that depicts perimeters of more than 100 years of California wildfires recorded by Cal Fire and the U.S. Geological Survey. The map below shows all the cumulative fires from 1878 to 2018. It seems as if there is very little of California that has not been touched by wildfire.…[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/01/26/californias-wildfire-history-in-one-map/"]Continue reading →[/URL][/FONT]
[/FONT]
Click to expand...

I rather suspect that, if you extended the list back to 1778 there would be substantially more of California covered in red. Heck, if you extended it back to 1492 then California would likely ALL be covered in red.

On the other hand, it IS "perfectly obvious" that the "Democrats", "liberals", "environmentalists" and "greedy power companies" are 100% responsible for 100% of ALL the fires that have EVER started in California - right?
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

TU Curmudgeon said:
I rather suspect that, if you extended the list back to 1778 there would be substantially more of California covered in red. Heck, if you extended it back to 1492 then California would likely ALL be covered in red.

On the other hand, it IS "perfectly obvious" that the "Democrats", "liberals", "environmentalists" and "greedy power companies" are 100% responsible for 100% of ALL the fires that have EVER started in California - right?
Click to expand...

I think you have me confused with someone else. I don't have any particular grudge against "Democrats", "liberals", "environmentalists" and "greedy power companies."
 
Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Jack Hays said:
I think you have me confused with someone else. I don't have any particular grudge against "Democrats", "liberals", "environmentalists" and "greedy power companies."
Click to expand...

Punctuation marks actually have meanings.
 
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