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Sen. Lindsey Graham says he'll introduce legislation to end birthright citizenship

zimmer

zimmer

Educating the Ignorant
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The 14th Amendment was originally intended as a means to give former slaves and their descendants citizenship.
 
Would that not require a change to the constitution?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Would that not require a change to the constitution?
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Mr. Trump has a legal opinion that says that it doesn't.

All that Mr. Trump has to do is to say "Those words do not mean what they say, what they actually mean is __[fill in the blank]__." and HEY PRESTO the job is done.

Does the Constitution say that the Presidential Elections shall be held every FOURTH year or only every four years. If so, WHICH "four years"? That's for the President to decide when he "administers" the law - right?
 
Jack Fabulous said:
The 14th Amendment was originally intended as a means to give former slaves and their descendants citizenship.
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The second was intend to keep a well armed militia.

Point is, it's out of date so we have legislation from the bench on tons of issues.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Would that not require a change to the constitution?
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IMO it probably should. But why bother with details? If you are President, all you need is a pen and a phone.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
I guess it is arguable. The courts will undoubtedly be weighing in.
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Really? How can one argue what ALL PERSONS BORN IN THE USA ARE CITIZENS OF THE USA mean?

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
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Skeptic Bob said:
I didn’t say they had a GOOD argument. :)
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Exactly!

Glad to see Paul Ryan is not bending over the table for Trump on this one

https://www.politico.com/story/2018...ht-citizenship-with-an-executive-order-949387

“Well, you obviously cannot do that,” Ryan told Kentucky talk radio station WVLK. “You cannot end birthright citizenship with an executive order.”

“You know, as a conservative, I’m a believer in following the plain text of the Constitution, and I think in this case the 14th Amendment is pretty clear, and that would involve a very, very lengthy constitutional process."
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If we get the question of, who is a US citizen?, out of the way. We then move on to defining who is a Muslim and who is a Jew?
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Yep. But it is still the White House pushing it which means the courts will HAVE to get involved. We can’t just say, “that’s stupid” and leave it at that.
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Why not? When we have a mentally delusional incompetent president who is enabled by equally mentally delusional supporters - why is it not enough to simply point that out and let it be on them to do otherwise.

Identifying a reeking steaming pile of crap as a reeking steaming pile of crap does not need a chemical analysis from a certified laboratory.

Enough is enough already.
 
The idea should be discussed and expanded on. Entering the country illegally to give birth and using such as an opportunity to push for citizenship is a problem.

Jmo
 
As usual, DP members are not being honest about what they are suggesting. It is not to end birthright citizenship, it is to clarify what constitutes birthright citizenship, a small, but yet, important distinction.

Tim-
 
On one hand, my feeling is that we don't need to argue every stupid thing that comes out of Trump's mouth. On the other hand Trump's stupid idea has (not surprisingly) jumped into the Republican mainstream, which I suppose is helpful in reminding everybody what's at stake during the midterms.
 
SheWolf said:
If we get the question of, who is a US citizen?, out of the way. We then move on to defining who is a Muslim and who is a Jew?
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And, of course, who is the 'master race'
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Mr. Trump has a legal opinion that says that it doesn't.

All that Mr. Trump has to do is to say "Those words do not mean what they say, what they actually mean is __[fill in the blank]__." and HEY PRESTO the job is done.

Does the Constitution say that the Presidential Elections shall be held every FOURTH year or only every four years. If so, WHICH "four years"? That's for the President to decide when he "administers" the law - right?
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fake Constitution!
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yep. that should be enough for tRump to justify it
 
haymarket said:
Exactly!

Glad to see Paul Ryan is not bending over the table for Trump on this one

https://www.politico.com/story/2018...ht-citizenship-with-an-executive-order-949387
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Oddly this makes sense to me.

Here is my contention. From my understanding this is to CURB the loophole with Illegal immigration. The intent of the 14th is what is, but likely with respect that THOSE people that respect and FOLLOW our laws DO so.

meaning you DO NOT illegally enter our country and then give BIRTH to a child and PRESTO, Citizenship for the baby. The LOOPHOLE is a mess.


So while I doubt the specificity of the 14th is correct and the intent was sound too.

WE NEED to address the ACTUAL Loophole of those that are intent-fully circumventing it. SO amending the 14th while trying to close the loophole makes sense...... This will piss of people and possible traditionalist.

SO why not attack the source Illegal Immigrants, with the intent of having children in American so they qualify for citizenship under the 14th amendment.

1) We add a caveat to the 14th without Changing it
2) We address the ILLEGAL immigration PERIOD.
3) Defining legal immigrants that have children born here, VS Illegal immigrants with children born here.


get to the root of what we are trying to do.... DO others understand that? I doubt it.
 
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Skeptic Bob said:
I didn’t say they had a GOOD argument. :)
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I've got to admit that the "Giggle Factor" in "But 'all persons born in the United States of America' doesn't mean ALL persons born in the United States of America." is pretty close to 100%.
 
SheWolf said:
If we get the question of, who is a US citizen?, out of the way. We then move on to defining who is a Muslim and who is a Jew?
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Ahh - but the simple solution to that one is for Mr. Trump to make a "Presidential Finding" that that so-called "Islam" is NOT a religion within the sense of the Constitution of the United States of America and then issue "Executive Orders" accordingly.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Yep. But it is still the White House pushing it which means the courts will HAVE to get involved. We can’t just say, “that’s stupid” and leave it at that.
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I will stand up and applaud the first judge with the cojones to look the government lawyer squarely in the eye and say "Tell me 'Counsellor' do you actually expect any rational, intelligent, and educated person to BELIEVE the crock of **** you are trying to peddle? Do you think that I'm as stupid as the people who are paying you to try out that load of crap in this courtroom?".
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
I will stand up and applaud the first judge with the cojones to look the government lawyer squarely in the eye and say "Tell me 'Counsellor' do you actually expect any rational, intelligent, and educated person to BELIEVE the crock of **** you are trying to peddle? Do you think that I'm as stupid as the people who are paying you to try out that load of crap in this courtroom?".
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Assuming he actually does sign such an EO, I wonder how many hours will go by before it is shot down. I doubt it will last 24 hours.
 
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