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Jamal Khashoggi is dead, Saudi Arabian state television confirms

ttwtt78640 said:
He will since the US is not about to demand 'regime change' for the alleged criminal acts of other 'lower level' agents of a foreign nation. More likely MBS will be praised for his honesty, cooperation with US (and other international officials) and quick action taken to assure that those responsible for this 'rogue crime' were brought to justice.
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Do you think MBS's family might take a stand? Not that they are moral or anything... lol... but if one of them sees an opportunity and a weakened MBS, why not take it?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
A confession works for me.
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Confessions only apply when someone states the truth, even You know that the BS story is a load big load if BS.
You can do better.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
Conservatives can't get their head around this scandal. They have thus far refused to look at the evidence b/c they know it's bad news for Trump. It also exposes Trump's ties to the Saudis, but not only that: I'll take it to a highly partisan level here. That less than 20 days before the midterms, those darned liberals figured out a way to beat Conservatives by using another man with a name that starts with K, and they might not even know it yet. Instead of it being a drunken entitled abuser. This is a man who is not only a journalist, but also Saudi Arabian, Muslim, Immigrant who preached about the dangerous attacks on free press which got him killed. I expect that this is the message Democrats will and should rally around come a week from now.

I'm sorry to say it, but using the man's death for political reasons is not any worse than how Republicans threw Dr. Ford under the bus.
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We should be aware of what countries candidates have ties to in the future. It should be a serious issue when voting for somebody. If Trump had ties to England, Germany, and Canada, his attitude towards the world would be very different.
 
vesper said:
There has been some really bad reporting on this story. Pompeo called out ABC for running with a story claiming he had viewed a video of the killing of this reporter. He bitch slapped them good and called them to retract their story as it was false.

It is obvious that those in Turkey are leaking salacious comments and then Turkey turns around and backtracks. This administration requested all video persons leaking out of Turkey claimed to have but Turkey has not been willing to pony up such videos.

This is the Middle East we are talking about. There are a lot of bad players. Bad players within each government.
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True. Unfortunately, we have compounded this equation with bad players (people we can not trust) in our government as well.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It will be 'officially' said that no high ranking (as in royal blood) involvement was found. This was a crime committed entirely by (now) ex-government personnel. They plan to treat this much like our police officer killings which are never linked to those in charge and often exclude any real scrutiny of other officers present much less higher ups later aware of a crime. They, as our police, wait for the 'internal investigation' to assign (limit?) any blame to individuals acting on their own.

The fact that 15 to 18 acted "on their own" is, of course, going to be a bit harder to sell but these things happen with our police in some cases like the shooting of Laquan McDonald which remained a complete mystery for quite a while despite the fact that it occurred in front of multiple government witnesses who somehow saw nothing out of the ordinary.
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Bold:
See post 94....I'm not sure what happened can be called a crime. I'm certain that evaluating the matter from our US legal frame of reference, yes, criminal acts occurred; however, what happened isn't governed by US, international or Turkish law; it's governed by Saudi law.

(If the body was disposed of somewhere in Turkey, it may be that there's a Turkish law against depositing a corpse is "such and such" a place/condition. That's about all that strikes me as maybe unlawful as goes Turkey's laws.)

Red:
That's likely so.

I know the image below isn't quite the right metaphor, but it'll have to do for now....

Fox-guarding-the-hen-house-512bf2d4bec97_hires.jpg



Blue:
I don't think there's any way to "sell" the notion that the SA crown prince bears no culpability for what happened.

Perhaps SA and the crown prince have acolytes as dumb as Trumpkins who'll thus buy whatever BS the prince tosses their way. The greater global community, however, will not be thus fooled.
 
vesper said:
Actually the current Saudi government has been having success is doing away with several edicts planted from their religion into the law that have kept the Saudis living in the dark ages. Piece by piece they have been making moves to lift these "burdens". One is now Saudi women have the right to drive. Another women are allowed into sports stadiums. Something not allowed for years. This suppression on the women wasn't always that way. Do a search on Muslim women in the Middle East in the 60's prior to the religious suppression. You will find them looking quite normal in dress, makeup, hairdos, etc. and the men looked a lot happier too. But within Saudi Arabia there is a strong group that is against the current government moving away from suppression of women. Is it too hard for you to wonder that within the Saudi Arabia government who has shown an effort to move away from the Religious groups that like having their women second and third class citizens be behind this murder of the reporter? the old guard is not happy with the current decisions and the direction they are going. Think about why the reporter was there at the Saudi Counsolate in Turkey in the first place. He wanted a divorce so he could marry his fiancée.
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And all progress and foreign investment can be jeopardized by this murder. If MSB had anything to do with, as he is suspected, he will delegitimize his leadership and country. What happened in that embassy is disgusting and sick.
 
JANFU said:
No way it happened without the approval of MBS. Now when the Saudis put out their story, it will be full of holes.

Next will be will Erdogan back it up as they have tapes?

Will they want to rupture a bad relationship with Saudi even more so than it is now?
Will MBS survive?
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I'm willing to bet there was some level of covert listening devices placed in the Saudi Consulate either by the Turks or even us. Whoever has that recording will have to figure out a way to provide the audio evidence and not lose their source (but I suspect that it's already too late).
 
radioman said:
Hmmph.....you sound like a member of The Borg.
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Considering that I am a well know heretic who is constantly drawing fire for my abject refusal to conform to the herd norms...no.
 
Casper said:
Confessions only apply when someone states the truth, even You know that the BS story is a load big load if BS.
You can do better.
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No, If the Saudi's say that Jamal died in the consulate in physical violence that is all I need to conclude that this what ever exactly happened was incompetence, and that with this incompetence and all of the other incompetence from this CP he should go.

He was not the right guy for the job, surely they can find someone of the right rank who is better than this.
 
They need to produce his body for an autopsy if they want to be believed

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
JANFU said:
No way it happened without the approval of MBS. Now when the Saudis put out their story, it will be full of holes.

Next will be will Erdogan back it up as they have tapes?

Will they want to rupture a bad relationship with Saudi even more so than it is now?
Will MBS survive?
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Another scenerio. The people arrested are people that MBS wanted out of the way.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
No, If the Saudi's say that Jamal died in the consulate in physical violence that is all I need to conclude that this what ever exactly happened was incompetence, and that with this incompetence and all of the other incompetence from this CP he should go.

He was not the right guy for the job, surely they can find someone of the right rank who is better than this.
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So, you are sold your soul, news to me, really thought you still had some principles, hey I admit I get it wrong some times, my bad.
You can do better, or so I thought...
 
vesper said:
Actually the current Saudi government has been having success is doing away with several edicts planted from their religion into the law that have kept the Saudis living in the dark ages. Piece by piece they have been making moves to lift these "burdens". One is now Saudi women have the right to drive. Another women are allowed into sports stadiums. Something not allowed for years. This suppression on the women wasn't always that way. Do a search on Muslim women in the Middle East in the 60's prior to the religious suppression. You will find them looking quite normal in dress, makeup, hairdos, etc. and the men looked a lot happier too. But within Saudi Arabia there is a strong group that is against the current government moving away from suppression of women. Is it too hard for you to wonder that within the Saudi Arabia government who has shown an effort to move away from the Religious groups that like having their women second and third class citizens be behind this murder of the reporter? the old guard is not happy with the current decisions and the direction they are going. Think about why the reporter was there at the Saudi Counsolate in Turkey in the first place. He wanted a divorce so he could marry his fiancée.

Edit- This reporter often wrote about the oppression of women and others in his columns.
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Mr Kashoggi RIP (the reporter) was banned from Saudi Arabia for insulting ............... President Trump!

He was enticed there to unknowingly meet a dozen men one of whom was an autopsy expert with a bone saw. There is audio of them cutting off "the reporters" fingers with it, one by one, as he screamed in agony. Any more Saudi denigration of the victim you want to share?
 
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vesper said:
There has been some really bad reporting on this story. Pompeo called out ABC for running with a story claiming he had viewed a video of the killing of this reporter. He bitch slapped them good and called them to retract their story as it was false.

It is obvious that those in Turkey are leaking salacious comments and then Turkey turns around and backtracks. This administration requested all video persons leaking out of Turkey claimed to have but Turkey has not been willing to pony up such videos.

This is the Middle East we are talking about. There are a lot of bad players. Bad players within each government.
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It appears that Turkey has a problem trusting it's NATO ally. As do the others. Frankly, I don't blame them.
 
Kashoggi was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Good riddance!
 
ClaraD said:
The guy was in the US in exile...he would no longer be considered a full citizen of Saudi Arabia...further, he was under our protection and laws and was well on his way to US citizenship...if he had been living in Saudi Arabia and not in exile, you would have a point...but he wasn't ...he was living in the US and was a reporter for a US paper.
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A citizen in exile of XYZ country is still a citizen of that country. S/he remains so until s/he meets XYZ's requirements for being no longer a citizen.

In the case of individuals seeking US citizenship, the US generally bids one to forswear one's citizenship in another nation; however, there are some pathways that allow one to have dual citizenship, though the US won't recognize any US citizen as being also a citizen of another nation.

Saudi Arabia is not a dual-citizenship-allowing nation. Its citizenship laws are defined in the Saudi Arabian Citizenship System SACS. One loses one's Saudi citizenship by:
  • Working for another nation's military.
  • Working for another nation's government.
Saudi citizens must obtain the Prime Minister's permission to relinquish their citizenship; however, the government can unilaterally revoke one's citizenship if deems one a terrorist threat. Furthermore, if a Saudi citizen acquired a foreign citizenship without this permission, they yet remain Saudi unless the Saudi government, pursuant to SACS Article 13, revokes their Saudi citizenship because the person:
  • takes up foreign Citizenship without permission of the Prime Minister;
  • works for another country's military;
  • works for the benefit of a foreign Government during wartime with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia;
  • works for a foreign Government or International Organisation despite the Saudi Government's order for them to quit.
AFAIK, though he may have been aiming to do so, JK, at the time of his demise, met none of the criteria giving rise to a revocation of his Saudi citizenship. He was thus a Saudi citizen.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Mr Kashoggi RIP (the reporter) Was banned from Saudi Arabia for insulting ............... President Trump!
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Stop spreading lies. He was never banned from Saudi Arabia.

He was barred from writing in Saudi Arabia after criticizing Trump; he then went into self-imposed exile ... to the country whose president he criticized.

(spit)
 
Casper said:
So, you are sold your soul, news to me, really thought you still had some principles, hey I admit I get it wrong some times, my bad.
You can do better, or so I thought...
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If you want my attention you are going to have to do better at constructing complete thoughts.
 
markjs said:
I notice the absence of posts by a few TRumpling posters who've been screaming about "where's the evidence?" Cat got your keyboard?:lamo
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He's dead. The Saudis admitted they did it. What's more to say?

The question is: do we punish the entire country with sanctions or do we place sanctions on specific individuals?
 
Parrish said:
It appears that Turkey has a problem trusting it's NATO ally.
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Well, that's okay. We don't trust Turkey.
And we will continue to distrust them so long as Eroded is in charge.
 
Barnacle said:
Stop spreading lies. He was never banned from Saudi Arabia.

He was barred from writing in Saudi Arabia after criticizing Trump; he then went into self-imposed exile ... to the country whose president he criticized.

(spit)
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He went into exile because he feared for his safety and it would appear his instinct was correct...
 
Hawkeye10 said:
If you want my attention you are going to have to do better at constructing complete thoughts.
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I could not care less if you are paying attention or not, maybe you should let us know when you actually are.
 
Higgins86 said:
He went into exile because he feared for his safety and it would appear his instinct was correct...
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His instincts should have told him to not go within ten miles if the place. But he is a good example if what happens to those that fight against ubber-conservatives. Coming to a country near you any day now..
 
Roadvirus said:
Well, that's okay. We don't trust Turkey.
And we will continue to distrust them so long as Eroded is in charge.
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Seems now that Erdogan is more creditable than 45. And the civilized world trusts him more than the POTUS.
 
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