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Gallup: Americans, especially Republicans, losing confidence in higher ed

Kal'Stang said:
Want to know what's ironic about what you just said? Those people that work on race car engines? Have degrees.
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Where did you get that from?
 
Grand Mal said:
"Many Republicans believe..." is not the same as, "the masses are being predominately influenced by leftist educators..." The fact that uneducated conservatives believe something is certainly NOT proof that it's true.
In fact, believing that univerities are indoctrinating students is probably another result of being uneducated. If you can't have something, are unable and ill-equiped to get it, it's a consolation to be told that it's of no value anyway.
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Good points.

Did you read about the recent study where people were asked to judge if articles were biased or not (and by how much)?

What the researchers found was that the degree of bias reported dropped considerably if the source of the article was not given AND that the direction of the bias depended on what source the researcher said that the article came from.

That would mean that the same article would receive three different "bias ratings" depending on whether:

  1. the source was one the subject considered "friendly";
  2. the source was not revealed to the subject; or
  3. the source was one that the subject considered "unfriendly".

    And, DAMN I've lost the link.
 
The solution of the Democratic Party to millions of college graduates being unable to find any job related to their degrees is to increase this to tens of millions of college graduates being unable to find any job related to their degrees.

For many, going to college is an excuse not to get a job and not to grow up. They don't care about learning, though demand their piece of paper degree should reward them automatically.

The indoctrination is so detrimental, that one of the larger employers in this area will not hire anyone with a college degree due to the anti-business attitudes often taught and because the employees tended to think they are too superior for the job. It is easily to train someone as a blank slate who then both knows the job as an specialty expertise and appreciates the job, than to try to erase bad attitudes in employees who see their job as below them.

A fella I know who is a licensed electrician (with the academics for it) also has the academic courses to become a master electrician, but doesn't because according to him this would handicap him in future jobs potential.
 
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TU Curmudgeon said:
Good question.

How about "Canada" as an answer?
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You seriously believe that too. What a pity that you can't get behind the idea that educators need to keep their politics out of the classroom for the betterment of society.
College kids should be exposed to ALL views, not just leftist politicos pretending to be intelligent mentors.
 
humbolt said:
Equating intelligence with education attained is a mistake. There are highly educated, but incredibly stupid people, and there are not so highly educated people who are very intelligent. It's helps to understand the difference.
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Can I refer you to the Wikipedia article "Anti-intellectualism in American Life"?
 
prometeus said:
We have exactly what we have now. Low intellect uneducated imbeciles electing Trump and blindly supporting anything the moron does. But hey for them a victory is a victory, because they are too stupid to understand the long term results or that in politics nothing is permanent.[/INDENT]
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So what do you hate more? The booming economy? The record low unemployment for all? The new trade deals? The less tense relationships with NK? The tax cuts? The removal of business stifling regulations?

The record small businesses being started with great optimism?

64 million low intellect uneducated imbeciles riding high on the wave of optimism are really concerned with your opinion.
 
The leader of Japan stated the correct attitude of government when he said the government should only finance and pay for higher education for education in skills and knowledge that society needs - not what the student wants the government to pay for. We don't really need more sociology and communications BA grads.
 
TurtleDude said:
do you labor under the delusion that being well educated in say subjects such as history or English-makes you more intelligent than someone who say knows how to rewire a house, plumb a new swimming pool or time the engine on a NASCAR racer?
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Nope, I "labour under the delusion" that being well educated in say subjects such as history or English-makes one more of an expert in those fields than someone who isn't.

I do NOT "labour under the delusion" that knowing how to rewire a house, plumb a new swimming pool or time the engine on a NASCAR racer qualifies me to undertake the writing of laws or the determining of the potential effects of laws on society.

Equally, I do NOT "labour under the delusion" that the only thing that I need to know in order to cast an informed ballot is whether a candidate's name is followed by a big "D" or a big "R".
 
GottaGo said:
As others have stated, I don't believe anyone is looking for someone 'dumber'. IMO, the biggest problem at this point is that they are teaching WHAT to think, not HOW to think. They teach opinions, not facts and encourage the students form their own opinions.

The dearth of critical thinking skills and problem solving is not only sad, it's rather scary for the future.
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Critical thinking would involve asking,

1) Is there evidence for this?
2) Who produced this evidence and can I trust the source?
3) Is there independent confirmation of this evidence?
4) Is this phenomenon widespread or anecdotal? Isolated examples in a few fields on a few campuses, or generally true across all campuses and disciplines?

So, any answers?
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Nope, I "labour under the delusion" that being well educated in say subjects such as history or English-makes one more of an expert in those fields than someone who isn't.

I do NOT "labour under the delusion" that knowing how to rewire a house, plumb a new swimming pool or time the engine on a NASCAR racer qualifies me to undertake the writing of laws or the determining of the potential effects of laws on society.

Equally, I do NOT "labour under the delusion" that the only thing that I need to know in order to cast an informed ballot is whether a candidate's name is followed by a big "D" or a big "R".
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well that last comment is certainly appropriate
 
Kal'Stang said:
Why shouldn't they think that? We have college students trying to shut down anyone that they disagree with on college campuses..generally conservative speakers. Wanting to segregate themselves. Making false accusations of homophobia/racism etc etc. Consider "hate speech" as bad as physical assault. Coined the term "micro-aggression", which they consider to be just as bad as an actual aggression. (I mean seriously...asking where someone is from on a campus that has people from all over the country and may even have students from other countries is an aggression? pfft)

The list goes on and on.
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Very small number number of vocal college kids are trying to shut down opposing voices on college campuses. And for every ignorant college kid trying to shut people down there are more that want to hear the opposing viewpoint and much more that simply aren't paying attention because they are busy with studies, social life, working sidejobs trying to pay for college etc.

If you want to play the "take a small group and act as though we should treat them as a majority in order to bash the other side" we can play that game and I'll show examples of how I can do that to conservatives. I would only give examples because I wouldn't want to actually try to argue such falsehoods, but I could do it.

Everything you listed are also things which I think are stupid and petty and should be denounced when it's tried. I have no issue with that. But when you try to use it as a tool to bludgeon the other side rather than use it as a tool to gather consensus with reasonable people from the other side, that's a problem.

Go to a college campus and scream "micro-aggression!" at someone because they stared at you for too long or were standing too close to you. I can guarantee you won't find much support, and very very likely none at all. Instead you'll get looks of "what's wrong with this asshole?"
 
It's not only the leftist politics in most colleges, it's the outrageous financial burden that these compassionate liberals are loading on the backs of their students.
 
trixare4kids said:
You seriously believe that too. What a pity that you can't get behind the idea that educators need to keep their politics out of the classroom for the betterment of society.
College kids should be exposed to ALL views, not just leftist politicos pretending to be intelligent mentors.
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If you don't think that the post secondary teachers in Canada are even MORE "left-wing" than those in the US, they it's time to bang your head against the wall until your brains start working.

I agree that "College kids should be exposed to ALL views, not just leftist politicos pretending to be intelligent mentors." and I have had a great deal of fun doing just that to the point where the "left-wing" on campus thought that I was a "fascist" and the "right-wing" on campus thought that I was a "commie anarchist".

PS - Exactly how do you propose that students be exposed to ALL views, if NO views are allowed to be expressed (c.f. "educators need to keep their politics out of the classroom")?
 
joko104 said:
The leader of Japan stated the correct attitude of government when he said the government should only finance and pay for ...
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Hold on there a minute.

"The Government" doesn't "finance and pay for" anything - it's the TAXPAYERS who do.

Did you know that only about 10% of all post-secondary students ever increase their income sufficiently to pay the FULL cost of their education (not just tuition and books)?

Did you know that it is that 10% that actually ends up paying back more than the total cost of the education of the 100%?

Did you know that there is no known reliable method of determining whether any individual student is going to fall into that 10% until AFTER they have graduated?
 
There is reason to lose confidence. I'm retired, and have become somewhat of a "professional student" since.

I saw a critical thinking course where 60% of the class didn't believe in evolution. I also saw in a biology class where the teacher made students read from New York Times articles weekly that were clearly biased, and tried to explain that gender was non-binary while wearing shirts with a hammer and sickle on them. I also saw that part of the mandatory curriculum was gender and "diversity" studies.
 
Kal'Stang said:
There are actual colleges out there designed specifically for working on race cars. Google Search
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True. However, most who speak of universities generally do not mean technical skills colleges. In my opinion, enrollment in technical training colleges and universities should dramatically increase, while enrollment in the humanities is excessive. Many humanities degrees are a walk in the park and a person can just talk/BS their way to a degree. There is not bluffing or easy way to a real technical skill. So we might actually be in agreement and it only a different of terminology usage.
 
prometeus said:
We have exactly what we have now. Low intellect uneducated imbeciles electing Trump and blindly supporting anything the moron does. But hey for them a victory is a victory, because they are too stupid to understand the long term results or that in politics nothing is permanent.[/INDENT]
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And that my friends is exactly the kind of attitude that got Trump elected in the first place. Trump was elected by because Hillary was a pathetic excuse for a candidate. If the Dems had nominated a better candidate we would have a Democrat in the WH,
 
roughdraft274 said:
Very small number number of vocal college kids are trying to shut down opposing voices on college campuses. And for every ignorant college kid trying to shut people down there are more that want to hear the opposing viewpoint and much more that simply aren't paying attention because they are busy with studies, social life, working sidejobs trying to pay for college etc.

If you want to play the "take a small group and act as though we should treat them as a majority in order to bash the other side" we can play that game and I'll show examples of how I can do that to conservatives. I would only give examples because I wouldn't want to actually try to argue such falsehoods, but I could do it.

Everything you listed are also things which I think are stupid and petty and should be denounced when it's tried. I have no issue with that. But when you try to use it as a tool to bludgeon the other side rather than use it as a tool to gather consensus with reasonable people from the other side, that's a problem.

Go to a college campus and scream "micro-aggression!" at someone because they stared at you for too long or were standing too close to you. I can guarantee you won't find much support, and very very likely none at all. Instead you'll get looks of "what's wrong with this asshole?"
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Very small? What in your opinion constitutes "very small"?

Then you get to consider this study by the National Association of Scholars: Homogeneous: The Political Affiliations of Elite Liberal Arts College Faculty
 
Although many years ago, while working at a packinghouse (3rd shift steward) one of the fellas I got to know well occasionally used words too "big" and obscure for the average employee. Promising I would keep his secret, he explained that he has a PhD in philosophy. Exactly no one would hire him for any job. So, the way he got this job was by lying. On his application, he confessed he never finished high school, but did manage to go back and get a G.E.D. The personnel job interviewer told him how impressive it was that he decided to try to improve himself by getting a G.E.D. and hired him.

Sometimes a person can brag their way out of a job, rather than into it. Most employers know not to hire over qualified people or people you know are only taking the job out of need and will leave if when finding a better one.
 
joko104 said:
True. However, most who speak of universities generally do not mean technical skills colleges. In my opinion, enrollment in technical training colleges and universities should dramatically increase, while enrollment in the humanities is excessive. Many humanities degrees are a walk in the park and a person can just talk/BS their way to a degree. There is not bluffing or easy way to a real technical skill. So we might actually be in agreement and it only a different of terminology usage.
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I'm not the one that brought up race car engine mechanics in an attempt to claim them as not being all that educated and therefore not that intelligent. I just responded to it.
 
Verax said:
Being that the right in the U.S. is far right, by any standard comparison in the U.S. or the world; everything is left of that. Not only that but higher education skews towards liberals naturally. I've worked labor jobs with conservatives and the vast majority of them "ain't the college type". I see the current situation regarding higher education in the U.S. as natural.
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LOL...

The conservatives are wearing the white hats, telling you newbies what to carry & where.

I see plenty of liberal graduates flipping burgers, pouring coffee, and working at Verizon pimping out cell phones.
 
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