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Jamal Khashoggi: Turkey says journalist was murdered in Saudi consulate

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nota bene

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WaPo contributor Kashoggi walked into the Saudi consulate Tuesday to obtain divorce records. His fiancée waited 11 hours, but he never returned. From the BBC:

Turkish officials said Mr Khashoggi was killed on the premises and his body was then removed.

...Saudi Arabia said the allegations were baseless. It has allowed reporters into the consulate to show Mr Khashoggi is not there.

The [Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman]prince said the Saudis were "very keen to know what happened to him", saying his understanding was that Mr Khashoggi left "after a few minutes or one hour". https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45775819

Turkish police say that Kashoggi was "tortured, murdered, and cut into pieces" inside the consulate. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...journalist-killed-Saudi-consulate-source.html
 
Well, the thing is they can't actually go into the Consulate, so their rather, dramatic proposal of what occurred is a little baseless, the most likely scenario is he was abducted and forcibly taken back to Saudi, Saudi has done this type of thing before, but to do it through an Embassy in this manner, don't think things like this have been done since the Cold War Days, I really doubt they killed him, they'd want to bring him home so they could talk to him properly, or at least what they consider properly.

If in fact he was killed in the embassy, not that I am at all a fan of the Turkish Government, but they should expel Saudi's entire mission to Turkey in response, would seem to me to be appropriate given the circumstances.

The only other thing I will say, is dead or alive if you think he's still in that building, I'd really doubt it.
 
This mislabeling speculation as fact problem has gotten way out of hand.

Are the Saudi's stupid enough to do what is speculated?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
This mislabeling speculation as fact problem has gotten way out of hand.

Are the Saudi's stupid enough to do what is speculated?
Click to expand...

What is stupid about it?
 
Jetboogieman said:
Well, the thing is they can't actually go into the Consulate, so their rather, dramatic proposal of what occurred is a little baseless, the most likely scenario is he was abducted and forcibly taken back to Saudi, Saudi has done this type of thing before, but to do it through an Embassy in this manner, don't think things like this have been done since the Cold War Days, I really doubt they killed him, they'd want to bring him home so they could talk to him properly, or at least what they consider properly.

If in fact he was killed in the embassy, not that I am at all a fan of the Turkish Government, but they should expel Saudi's entire mission to Turkey in response, would seem to me to be appropriate given the circumstances.

The only other thing I will say, is dead or alive if you think he's still in that building, I'd really doubt it.
Click to expand...

I don't know anything about this other than what has been reported, which includes Kashoggi expressing fears for his life for over a year.

From the Guardian:

Human Rights Watch called for international investigators to be included in a transparent investigation.

“Given Saudi’s abuse of its diplomatic privileges – and all norms of diplomatic order – by brazenly kidnapping someone and allegedly killing him in their consulate, there should be a global demand for an international investigation into what happened,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, HRW’s executive director Middle East and North Africa. “This shouldn’t be left in the hands of Saudi or Turkey.

“Khashoggi’s reported kidnapping and even murder in the safe confines of the Saudi consulate is a deliberate strategy to sow fear into every Saudi who has spoken out about the government’s shortcomings, no matter how modestly or gently. The Saudi government wants them to know they are not safe inside or outside Saudi, and that no law or government can protect them.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...r-claim-international-inquiry-jamal-khashoggi
 
nota bene said:
What is stupid about it?
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:2brickwal

If you are going to kill someone you dont do it in your own house so that everyone knows beyond doubt that it was you who did it....you do the assassination out on the streets, discreetly. Did you see that story about the mob guy who was killed at a fast food drive through....that is what you do....that sort of thing.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
:2brickwal

If you are going to kill someone you dont do it in your own house so that everyone knows beyond doubt that it was you who did it....you do the assassination out on the streets, discreetly. Did you see that story about the mob guy who was killed at a fast food drive through....that is what you do....that sort of thing.
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I don't understand your brick wall smiley. At all. And I don't think you know any more than I do.
 
From The Hill:

Anger over the disappearance of a U.S.-based Saudi journalist has erupted on Capitol Hill, with senators from both parties putting pressure on the Trump administration by raising the specter of punitive measures against Saudi Arabia.

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) on Tuesday became the first lawmaker to call for specific congressional action in connection with the mysterious circumstances surrounding the whereabouts of Jamal Khashoggi, a Washington Post contributor who has been missing since visiting the Saudi consulate in Turkey on Oct. 2. Paul promised to force a vote blocking U.S. arms sales to Saudi Arabia if it is shown that the country was involved in foul play.

The international incident is putting a strain on U.S.-Saudi ties, as calls persist for the Trump administration to leverage its close relationship with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. https://thehill.com/policy/defense/410678-missing-journalist-strains-us-saudi-relationship
 
WaPo is reporting that the US intercepted Saudi communications indicating that they wanted to apprehend Khashoggi. Turkey thinks they chopped him up and shipped his parts out. Turkey has CCTV around the consulate so they should be able to show more than the still photo of him entering the building.
 
nota bene said:
Anger over the disappearance of a U.S.-based Saudi journalist has erupted on Capitol Hill, with senators from both parties putting pressure on the Trump administration by raising the specter of punitive measures against Saudi Arabia.
...as calls persist for the Trump administration to leverage its close relationship with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman....
Click to expand...

This should be interesting. During his admin, I suspect if Obama hadn't already issued a strong statement against the Saudi's, conservatives would already be claiming Obama was "waving the white flag of surrender." Obviously I agree that all the facts are likely not in, and it may be too early to do anything.
 
Samhain said:
WaPo is reporting that the US intercepted Saudi communications indicating that they wanted to apprehend Khashoggi. Turkey thinks they chopped him up and shipped his parts out. Turkey has CCTV around the consulate so they should be able to show more than the still photo of him entering the building.
Click to expand...

It's now been leaked to WaPo that the US had foreknowledge of this and did.....

Nothing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.31f29d07e7f0

This is really damning news.
 
nota bene said:
From The Hill:

Anger over the disappearance of a U.S.-based Saudi journalist has erupted on Capitol Hill, with senators from both parties putting pressure on the Trump administration by raising the specter of punitive measures against Saudi Arabia.

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) on Tuesday became the first lawmaker to call for specific congressional action in connection with the mysterious circumstances surrounding the whereabouts of Jamal Khashoggi, a Washington Post contributor who has been missing since visiting the Saudi consulate in Turkey on Oct. 2. Paul promised to force a vote blocking U.S. arms sales to Saudi Arabia if it is shown that the country was involved in foul play.

The international incident is putting a strain on U.S.-Saudi ties, as calls persist for the Trump administration to leverage its close relationship with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. https://thehill.com/policy/defense/410678-missing-journalist-strains-us-saudi-relationship
Click to expand...


And that, I believe, is the whole intend why the story is being kept on front page with, what I believe, is a massive exaggeration.

Like already pointed out, the location of the assumed murder is highly "suspicious". Adding 15 assassins and dismemberment - without evidence - makes the whole story sound really fishy.


Trump wanted to have "friendly", business-like connections with Russia. We know what the senate and media did to that.
Trump has "friendly", business-like connections with Saudi Arabia ... and we are watching right now how the senate and media are working on sabotaging that.
 
Barnacle said:
And that, I believe, is the whole intend why the story is being kept on front page with, what I believe, is a massive exaggeration.

Like already pointed out, the location of the assumed murder is highly "suspicious". Adding 15 assassins and dismemberment - without evidence - makes the whole story sound really fishy.

Trump wanted to have "friendly", business-like connections with Russia. We know what the senate and media did to that.
Trump has "friendly", business-like connections with Saudi Arabia ... and we are watching right now how the senate and media are working on sabotaging that.
Click to expand...

The Turkish police made the initial claim. Do you think they were forced or "encouraged" to put out false information?
 
Barnacle said:
And that, I believe, is the whole intend why the story is being kept on front page with, what I believe, is a massive exaggeration.

Like already pointed out, the location of the assumed murder is highly "suspicious". Adding 15 assassins and dismemberment - without evidence - makes the whole story sound really fishy.


Trump wanted to have "friendly", business-like connections with Russia. We know what the senate and media did to that.
Trump has "friendly", business-like connections with Saudi Arabia ... and we are watching right now how the senate and media are working on sabotaging that.
Click to expand...

What's 'fishy' is the fact the 15 Saudis 'security specialists' flew into Turkey, including an autopsy specialist, and they left the next day after he disappeared, flying back to Saudi by way of Egypt and Dubai.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/09/world/europe/jamal-khashoggi-turkey-saudi-arabia.html

But, by all means, keep pretending it's a massive exaggeration.
 
Rexedgar said:
“Encouraged” by whom, in your opinion?
Click to expand...

Wikipedia has a very short and - albeit - incomplete write-up, but it was the best I could find without linking to extensive articles from the last 2 years.


"Due to the 2017 Qatar diplomatic crisis, the relationship between Turkey and Saudi Arabia faces problems, with Turkey supporting Qatar against Saudi Arabia in the ongoing diplomatic dispute.

World Pensions Council's M. Nicolas J. Firzli has argued that the Turkish government has sought to use the crisis to its own advantage, by advancing an expansionist Neo-Ottoman agenda at the expense of the Gulf Cooperation Council:

“Turkey and a resurgent Iran for their part are cynically using the festering crisis to advance a distinct agenda: rebuilding military and economic beachheads along the ‘eastern flank’ of the Arabian Peninsula from Oman to Southern Iraq, a part of the world from which they were forced out by the Royal Navy in 1917, precisely one hundred years ago. The local chess board is getting crowded with too many avid players, at a time when many British and American policy makers seem to have lost interest in that part of the world: this doesn’t bode well for the long-term stability of the MENA.”[3]

Saudi Arabia, in response, has threatened to impose sanctions against Turkey, and has conducted discussions with the UAE on the topic of curbing “Turkish expansionist policy”. In turn, Erdoğan accused Saudi Arabia of being non-Islamic and heretics. Furthermore, Turkey has deployed troops to defend the government of Qatar from an attempted coup by Saudi Arabia and the UAE. ..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia–Turkey_relations


Turkey, being a NATO member, needs the US of A to turn its back on Saudi Arabia.
Unfortunately for them, after the famous Sword Dance by our administration, chances are Zero that this will happen ... which is a good thing. (grin)


hqdefault.jpg
 
Hawkeye10 said:
This mislabeling speculation as fact problem has gotten way out of hand.

Are the Saudi's stupid enough to do what is speculated?
Click to expand...

This doesn't have anything to do with 'stupidity' this has to do with a government that feels empowered to do whatever they want to do and that empowerment is in part the fault of the United States. Mohammed bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud known colloquially as MbS, is the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. Jamal Khashoggi is a Saudi citizen, a Washington Post reporter and a U.S. resident. His criticism of MbS certainly was not extreme yet MbS had an assassination squad go to Turkey, kill him and dismember him with a bone saw and carry his dismembered body parts out of the embassy in roll-away luggage. Surveillance video shows a Saudi death squad arriving at the airport, waiting for Khashoggi outside the Saudi embassy and later they're seen leaving with roll-away luggage which the Turkish government claims contains the dismembered body of Jamal Khashoggi.

How does the US, and the entire civilized war deal with MbS and Saudi Arabia if this is indeed what happened? The Saudis knew how to handle Trump. They flattered him by flashing his image up on their buildings on one of his first foreign trips, they honored him with a sword dance. Trump's ego loves that sort of thing. Jared Kushner was making a deal with the Saudis for money to bail out his building at 666 Fifth Avenue. Did the administration in Saudi Arabia figure that they were so comfortable with their relationship with Donald Trump and Jared Kushner that they could get away with this? Were they given a green light internally to go ahead and do what they've done?

If this crime is true, the U.S. and the entire world should have a sense of outrage. Our government should be making it clear to Saudi Arabia that this is not acceptable. This is a fundamental break in the rules of what's tolerable. For reporters who are trying to cover this part of the world, this must be terrifying.

globe.jpg
 
Hawkeye10 said:
This mislabeling speculation as fact problem has gotten way out of hand.

Are the Saudi's stupid enough to do what is speculated?
Click to expand...


15 assassins for 1 guy who actually walks into their "living room" - that statement alone is hilarious.
 
HumblePi said:
This doesn't have anything to do with 'stupidity' this has to do with a government that feels empowered to do whatever they want to do and that empowerment is in part the fault of the United States. Mohammed bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud known colloquially as MbS, is the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. Jamal Khashoggi is a Saudi citizen, a Washington Post reporter and a U.S. resident. His criticism of MbS certainly was not extreme yet MbS had an assassination squad go to Turkey, kill him and dismember him with a bone saw and carry his dismembered body parts out of the embassy in roll-away luggage. Surveillance video shows a Saudi death squad arriving at the airport, waiting for Khashoggi outside the Saudi embassy and later they're seen leaving with roll-away luggage which the Turkish government claims contains the dismembered body of Jamal Khashoggi.

How does the US, and the entire civilized war deal with MbS and Saudi Arabia if this is indeed what happened? The Saudis knew how to handle Trump. They flattered him by flashing his image up on their buildings on one of his first foreign trips, they honored him with a sword dance. Trump's ego loves that sort of thing. Jared Kushner was making a deal with the Saudis for money to bail out his building at 666 Fifth Avenue. Did the administration in Saudi Arabia figure that they were so comfortable with their relationship with Donald Trump and Jared Kushner that they could get away with this? Were they given a green light internally to go ahead and do what they've done?

If this crime is true, the U.S. and the entire world should have a sense of outrage. Our government should be making it clear to Saudi Arabia that this is not acceptable. This is a fundamental break in the rules of what's tolerable. For reporters who are trying to cover this part of the world, this must be terrifying.

View attachment 67241918
Click to expand...

Trump looks like he is getting a hummer, the guy in the headdress I can’t tell and the guy on the left has a knowing smile............?
 
HumblePi said:
This doesn't have anything to do with 'stupidity' this has to do with a government that feels empowered to do whatever they want to do and that empowerment is in part the fault of the United States. Mohammed bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud known colloquially as MbS, is the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. Jamal Khashoggi is a Saudi citizen, a Washington Post reporter and a U.S. resident. His criticism of MbS certainly was not extreme yet MbS had an assassination squad go to Turkey, kill him and dismember him with a bone saw and carry his dismembered body parts out of the embassy in roll-away luggage. Surveillance video shows a Saudi death squad arriving at the airport, waiting for Khashoggi outside the Saudi embassy and later they're seen leaving with roll-away luggage which the Turkish government claims contains the dismembered body of Jamal Khashoggi.

How does the US, and the entire civilized war deal with MbS and Saudi Arabia if this is indeed what happened? The Saudis knew how to handle Trump. They flattered him by flashing his image up on their buildings on one of his first foreign trips, they honored him with a sword dance. Trump's ego loves that sort of thing. Jared Kushner was making a deal with the Saudis for money to bail out his building at 666 Fifth Avenue. Did the administration in Saudi Arabia figure that they were so comfortable with their relationship with Donald Trump and Jared Kushner that they could get away with this? Were they given a green light internally to go ahead and do what they've done?

If this crime is true, the U.S. and the entire world should have a sense of outrage. Our government should be making it clear to Saudi Arabia that this is not acceptable. This is a fundamental break in the rules of what's tolerable. For reporters who are trying to cover this part of the world, this must be terrifying.
Click to expand...


"Empowered to do what ever they want to do" does not explain away "Makes no sense" ....Here is a so-called expert going on and on about "makes no sense":

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi-disappearance-mbs-saudi-arabia.html

And certainly this has little to nothing to doing with Trump.
 
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