A Russian Attack on Montenegro Could Mean the End of NATO Trump doesn’t think the country is worth

question: if Putler attacks Montenegro today , what Will Trump do?


"Russia has repeatedly outsmarted the West in recent years, managing to play a weaker hand with remarkable skill. Moscow has finely honed its skills in information warfare and hybrid warfare, relying on methods including pressure diplomacy, fake news, and foreign electoral intervention. Along the way, it has taken parts of Georgia and Ukraine by force and knocked both the United States and Britain down several pegs geopolitically.

Russia is not as powerful as it was in the Soviet era but, thanks to President Vladimir Putin’s strategic thinking, it is now regularly punching above its weight

Russia is not as powerful as it was in the Soviet era but, thanks to President Vladimir Putin’s strategic thinking, it is now regularly punching above its weight

in global affairs" https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/07/2...ld-mean-the-end-of-nato-putin-trump-helsinki/

1) This is an old story based on another idiot comment by Trump.
2) WHY would Russia ever think to invade or attack a small state in the Balkans... ??????

PeteEU said:

1) This is an old story based on another idiot comment by Trump.
2) WHY would Russia ever think to invade or attack a small state in the Balkans... ??????

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it has happened couple of times already
"Russia’s rivalry with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) runs deep. But would the Kremlin try to assassinate a democratically elected leader to stop a country from joining the alliance?

According to investigators and researchers digging into an alleged coup attempt in Montenegro, a tiny European country that lies along the Mediterranean, that is exactly what Russia did two years ago.

A new report by the Foreign Policy Research Institute reveals new details about an ongoing investigation into an attempt to topple Montenegro’s government on the eve of parliamentary elections on October 16, 2016. Investigators say Russia was to blame.

“We have a new member state Montenegro, who on the cusp of joining NATO was faced with, not just any coup, but one backed by the Russian government,” Richard Kraemer, one of the report’s authors and a Eurasia fellow at the U.S. think tank Foreign Policy Research Institute, told Newsweek.

“My hope is that this report will raise the alarm that Russia is so serious as to deploy hard power forces to achieve its political objectives in the Balkans. Russia has an agenda in the Balkans, and they’ll employ violent means to see it realized. It doesn’t get any more serious than that,” Kraemer added. "

https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-...attempt-assassinate-leader-montenegro-1007324

Why is that country supposed to be in NATO in the first place? Why doesn't - I dunno - Kenya deserve to be in NATO as much as Montenegro?

sanman said:

Why is that country supposed to be in NATO in the first place? Why doesn't - I dunno - Kenya deserve to be in NATO as much as Montenegro?

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The 28 NATO countries all hail from North America and Europe.

Last I checked, Kenya is on the African continent. Better check your globe again.

sanman said:

Why is that country supposed to be in NATO in the first place? Why doesn't - I dunno - Kenya deserve to be in NATO as much as Montenegro?

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why so many "conservatives" are the traitors? what ´d Reagan tell to you ?

Rogue Valley said:

The 28 NATO countries all hail from North America and Europe.

Last I checked, Kenya is on the African continent. Better check your globe again.

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this "Conservative" is a Putlerist...

Rogue Valley said:

The 28 NATO countries all hail from North America and Europe.

Last I checked, Kenya is on the African continent. Better check your globe again.

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Oh, I'm well aware of what the North Atlantic Treaty Organization was founded for.

I'm talking about giving a meaningful argument, instead of some mere procedural argument - because your argument is no more meaningful than saying "NATO needs more countries whose names start with M"



What's the purpose of having that particular country in NATO?

Litwin said:

thie "Conservative" is a Putlerist...

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What's your nationality again? Oh yeah - you're from one of those Mouse-That-Roared countries that needs Americans to go fight and die for it.

The real question that Americans might ask is - why should Americans want to do that?

I get why you'd want it - that'd be great for you - but why would it be great for the rest of us?

sanman said:

What's your nationality again? Oh yeah - you're from one of those Mouse-That-Roared countries that needs Americans to go fight and die for it.

The real question that Americans might ask is - why should Americans want to do that?

I get why you'd want it - that'd be great for you - but why would it be great for the rest of us?

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putlerist, what ´d Reagan say about your love with Muscovy and its czar Putler - Botox ?

Boris RC

3 years ago
As a person currently migrating from a country (Bulgaria), that was touched by the soviets, to a western country, I agree completely with the last great US president in the modern era. Soviet Russia was and still is an evil empire. It's poison still flows through many countries. Ronald Reagan worked hard for the dissolution of the Soviet Union. He succeeded and that is why he is hated so much in Russia and in countries like mine. I noticed many rude comments about him in the comment section. Those are the same people that will continue to spread russian propaganda all the time. Those are the same communists from that era or their children. I have seen the west now and I can concur that life is great here. People have houses, not some 3 by 3 cell that they call home (one small example). So stop wasting your breath spreading your propaganda. You can't fool everyone.

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The last half of Montenegro's name will ensure that Trump will give precisely no ****s for their fate.

Litwin said:

why so many "conservatives" are the traitors? what ´d Reagan tell to you ?

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Reagan defeated the Soviet Union - not the Democrats, who behaved like a thorn in his side.

How did those Democrats help Reagan by trying to prosecute him on the Contras?

A lot of Democrats were calling Reagan a crackpot and generally sounding alarm bells when he was elected. Sound familiar? It's Deja Vu all over again - right down to the Lee Greenwood songs at the political rallies.

Like the current President, Reagan was a former Democrat who fell out of love with the party.

The media didn't like Reagan - they used to attack him as a mental lightweight, mocking his every statement and even his speech mannerisms.

But Reagan was a good communicator - 'Great Communicator' was his nickname - because he took his message to the masses.



It does feel like the 80s are back.

sanman said:

Reagan defeated the Soviet Union - not the Democrats, who behaved like a thorn in his side.

How did those Democrats help Reagan by trying to prosecute him on the Contras?

A lot of Democrats were calling Reagan a crackpot and generally sounding alarm bells when he was elected. Sound familiar? It's Deja Vu all over again - right down to the Lee Greenwood songs at the political rallies.

Like the current President, Reagan was a former Democrat who fell out of love with the party.

The media didn't like Reagan - they used to attack him as a mental lightweight, mocking his every statement and even his speech mannerisms.

But Reagan was a good communicator - 'Great Communicator' was his nickname - because he took his message to the masses.



It does feel like the 80s are back.

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Muscovy has always had bunch of useful idiots who love work for this bamboostan
Conservatives shouldn't be Vladimir Putin's 'useful idiots'
"I have been hearing a lot of comments lately from conservatives that Russia is not our enemy, that President Vladimir Putin is a great guy, a strong leader who loves his country and is simply standing up to the globalist European Union. Mr. Putin and Russia, I’m told, are standing up for Christianity and providing security for Christians from Islamist extremists.

All of this may be true to some extent, at least on the surface. But it’s also worrying. I fear that too many on the right are being duped by the Russian government, its security services and their disinformation campaigns and missing the bigger picture.

Before I go on, let me say this: I am a Trump supporter, voted for him, still support him strongly, and believe his agenda is the only hope to save this great country from the Marxist, progressive, globalist scourge threatening the Western world. I don’t believe the Trump campaign”colluded” with Russia, the narrative pushed by the left to explain their absolute incredulity at losing the election. The Clintons and their minions were much more involved with Russia before the campaign than Mr. Trump ever was."
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/27/conservatives-shouldnt-be-vladimir-putins-useful-i/

Litwin said:

putlerist, what ´d Reagan say about your love with Muscovy and its czar Putler - Botox ?

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Reagan was talking about the Soviet Union and its support of global communism as an expansionist ideology.

But Reagan defeated the Soviet Union, which now no longer exists.

Reagan was willing to take risks, like a certain current president - even engaging the Soviets in summits.

Do you remember those things? Were you alive then? Or were you perhaps unaware of them, living behind an Iron Curtain?

What's your nationality again?

sanman said:

Why is that country supposed to be in NATO in the first place?

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Maybe because it's good policy to strengthen small, fledgling democracies?
Maybe because this tiny country suffered under communist oppression for 50 years?
Maybe because Montenegro has had soldiers deployed in Afghanistan for nearly a decade?

Montenegro to Send More Troops to Afganistan :: Balkan Insight

Litwin said:

Muscovy has always had bunch of useful idiots

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"Muscovy" - you're using some older dated terminology to refer to the Russians - something related to some ancient blood-feud you have with them.

The US has no national stake in siding in such old European blood-feuds.

Remember what one of Reagan's ideologues from the Whitehouse, Pat Buchanan later said - "Americans must not become the Hessians for Europe" - ie. Americans must not become mercenaries recruited to fight European wars.

The Democrats are mercenaries - they waste no opportunity to rent themselves out - so they're perfectly fine with sending Americans into wars they don't need to be in. That's why they're fine with re-opening feuds with Moscow.

That's why they love BJ Clinton, because he dumb enough and pliable enough to launch a bombing campaign against the remnants of the former Yugoslavia - specifically Montenegro's neighbor Serbia. Since Montenegro's population have a lot of historic fraternity with Serbia, this then required the US to intervene heavily in Montenegro's politics. This intervention is something the NATO lobby needs to maintain, to avoid seeing their efforts in the area capsize.

This is why these age-old blood-feuds in Europe are a quagmire. Once the US gets into them, they'll just keep dragging the US in deeper.

Conservatives shouldn't be Vladimir Putin's 'useful idiots'
"I have been hearing a lot of comments lately from conservatives that Russia is not our enemy, that President Vladimir Putin is a great guy, a strong leader who loves his country and is simply standing up to the globalist European Union. Mr. Putin and Russia, I’m told, are standing up for Christianity and providing security for Christians from Islamist extremists.

All of this may be true to some extent, at least on the surface. But it’s also worrying. I fear that too many on the right are being duped by the Russian government, its security services and their disinformation campaigns and missing the bigger picture.

Before I go on, let me say this: I am a Trump supporter, voted for him, still support him strongly, and believe his agenda is the only hope to save this great country from the Marxist, progressive, globalist scourge threatening the Western world. I don’t believe the Trump campaign”colluded” with Russia, the narrative pushed by the left to explain their absolute incredulity at losing the election. The Clintons and their minions were much more involved with Russia before the campaign than Mr. Trump ever was."
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/27/conservatives-shouldnt-be-vladimir-putins-useful-i/

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radioman said:

Maybe because it's good policy to strengthen small, fledgling democracies?
Maybe because this tiny country suffered under communist oppression for 50 years?
Maybe because Montenegro has had soldiers deployed in Afghanistan for nearly a decade?

Montenegro to Send More Troops to Afganistan :: Balkan Insight

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+
Montenegro from day 1, is supporting the USA, and its politic

radioman said:

Maybe because it's good policy to strengthen small, fledgling democracies?
Maybe because this tiny country suffered under communist oppression for 50 years?
Maybe because Montenegro has had soldiers deployed in Afghanistan for nearly a decade?

Montenegro to Send More Troops to Afganistan :: Balkan Insight

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Give me a break - even that Stalin-loving Mouse-That-Roared Georgia sent troops to Afghanistan. They did that because they're desperate for US support - doesn't mean the US should get involved in their battles - it's not worth it.
Remember that the fight against the Soviets led to that Afghanistan jihadist problem in the first place. So your last point amounts to promoting circular conflict.

Regarding your first point, the US meddled in Montenegro's politics as part of Clinton's military campaign against the Serbs. Your "supporting democracy" point amounts to continuing the meddling. Remember that Clinton's war on the Serbs is what helped to bring Putin to power in the first place, by precipitating the collapse of the Yeltsin govt. Clinton's idiotic actions were responsible for making Putin the leader of Russia.

The biggest threat of communist oppression faced by Americans is coming from the Democratic Party and its increasingly aggressive stunts to gain power by any and all means.


Trump has to succeed where Reagan failed with Bork and Ginsburg. At least Reagan's VP and successor George Bush Sr prevailed with Clarence Thomas, despite the ugly smear campaign of sex allegations waged by the Dems.

sanman said:

"Muscovy" - you're using some older dated terminology to refer to the Russians - something related to some ancient blood-feud you have with them.

The US has no national stake in siding in such old European blood-feuds.

Remember what one of Reagan's ideologues from the Whitehouse, Pat Buchanan later said - "Americans must not become the Hessians for Europe" - ie. Americans must not become mercenaries recruited to fight European wars.

The Democrats are mercenaries - they waste no opportunity to rent themselves out - so they're perfectly fine with sending Americans into wars they don't need to be in. That's why they're fine with re-opening feuds with Moscow.

That's why they love BJ Clinton, because he dumb enough and pliable enough to launch a bombing campaign against the remnants of the former Yugoslavia - specifically Montenegro's neighbor Serbia. Since Montenegro's population have a lot of historic fraternity with Serbia, this then required the US to intervene heavily in Montenegro's politics. This intervention is something the NATO lobby needs to maintain, to avoid seeing their efforts in the area capsize.

This is why these age-old blood-feuds in Europe are a quagmire. Once the US gets into them, they'll just keep dragging the US in deeper.

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putlerists stop your BS, we all here see your agenda

"
Trump’s Biggest Gift to Putin

Qualifying and conditioning the notion of NATO’s defense guarantee is a major step on the path to abandoning it.

...
Trump the benefit of the doubt, as White House spinners no doubt will try to do, you could say that Trump, by referencing Montenegrin “aggression,” was merely saying that the U.S. should not have to defend a NATO member if that country itself instigated a conflict. But that argument is a slippery slope, and in fact far more likely to apply to the United States than to any other member of NATO. After 9/11, the only time in NATO’s history when the Article 5 defense guarantee has actually been invoked, the allies did not blame the attack on “aggressive” U.S. policies abroad but simply asked: “How can we help?” Soon thereafter, NATO allies sent tens of thousands of troops to fight alongside Americans in Afghanistan. They spent tens of billions of dollars and suffered more than 1,000 casualties in defense of an ally. Qualifying and conditioning the notion of NATO’s defense guarantee is a major step on the path to abandoning it.

The Montenegro issue is a symptom of a much larger problem, which is that Trump doesn’t believe in alliances generally, and NATO in particular. When he said during the election campaign that NATO was “obsolete,” he meant it. His singular and obsessive focus on relative contributions to NATO defense spending reflects not just a shocking misunderstanding of how NATO works—allies do not pay the United States to defend them or “owe” Washington, D.C., anything—but a deeper skepticism about the very concept of an alliance...."

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/07/american-commitments-nato-trump/565601/

I'll just come right out and say it, an U.S.citizen that supports the ambitions of Vladimir Putin and believe that he's a 'good guy' and would rather have Putin as our U.S. president than a Democrat is an idiot and should have their heads examined. More than that they need a session or two with their eyelids retracted like in the movie 'A Clockwork Orange' and forced to watch an educational film about WHY Russia's ambitions in Europe are rife with malevolence and greed. So if you claim to be a 'Putin-admirer' then go live in the Moscow for a year and then come back and see if you still feel the same way.

About Montenegro. First of all Trump has shown nothing but vile disrespect for the Montenegro's Prime Minister Dusko Markovic and referred to him as a "whiny punk bitch" after last year's NATO summit. I think most of us have seen Trump shove him to the side in order to puff out his chest and take his position right in the front of all the cameras. Here's a visual reminder in case you've forgotten the moment. Another embarrassing moment for the people in the US. Prime Minister Dusko Markovic is the man on the right with white hair.


Montenegro is a Balkan country in Southeastern Europe on the Adriatic Sea. It borders Bosnia and Herzegovina to the north; Serbia and the disputed territory of Kosovo to the east. Montenegro used to be part of Yugoslavia which was also part of the Soviet Union. So why does Putin want Montenegro? First of all, Russia plays a big role in the Montenegrin economy. In 2012, Monstat reported that Russian businessmen have majority shares 32% of foreign enterprises present in Montenegro. Russian tycoon money being hidden away and protected in Montenegro.

Montenegro’s political and strategic position and peace loving orientation make it a factor of stability in the region, and a partner for bigger and more powerful countries. Montenegro is a member of the NATO countries and the US is obliged to protect this small country against a power-hungry Russia. If Trump doesn't defend NATO and the combined nations who defend NATO countries then he's putting the US in violation of our NATO agreement and putting us at risk by doing so.

HumblePi said:

I'll just come right out and say it, an U.S.citizen that supports the ambitions of Vladimir Putin and believe that he's a 'good guy' and would rather have Putin as our U.S. president than a Democrat is an idiot and should have their heads examined. ...

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we ´d call them the traitors , or putler´s poodles (stupid traitors)