U.S. to increase pressure on Venezuela, secretary of state says

Mycroft said:

While the Chinese are putting that bandaid on the stump, do you think the people don't know that the Chinese are also supporting the the government that cut off the arm? Somehow, I don't think that hospital ship will change the minds of the people.

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Congratulations, you are actually within driving distance of being in the ballpark of actually dealing with the question that was actually asked.

The question did not ask whether the Chinese actions would be successful - but you knew that, didn't you?

The question was "Which one do you think is the most likely to create a favourable impression of the government doing it in the Venezuelan people/government?" (emphasis added) and you didn't deal with that - but you knew that, didn't you?

TU Curmudgeon said:

Absolutely nothing less that a total embargo on all trade between the US and China will suffice AND that has to include a total ban on imports that contain even an iota of "Chinese content".

Right?

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NO.

For decades, we stuck our nose in the affairs of Mexico and Central America. How did that turn out?

Let the Venezuelan people and Venezuela's neighbors handle the situation. No doubt they are planning something at this very moment.


(P.S. Who cares what China says or does? If it endangers the United States, the American military will easily handle the matter. The dictators in Beijing know that China is no match for the United States.)

TheParser said:

NO.

For decades, we stuck our nose in the affairs of Mexico and Central America. How did that turn out?

Let the Venezuelan people and Venezuela's neighbors handle the situation. No doubt they are planning something at this very moment.


(P.S. Who cares what China says or does? If it endangers the United States, the American military will easily handle the matter. The dictators in Beijing know that China is no match for the United States.)

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You are 100% correct.

Everyone knows that the Chinese wouldn't even think of using their nuclear weapons if it was attacked by the United States of America.

Besides, even if the Chinese did launch their 55 to 65 nuclear armed ICBMs at the United States of America that would be only one nuclear explosion for every (roughly) 63,300 sq.mi. Since the average blast zone for a nuclear weapon is only about 28 sq.mi. (10 KTn blast), that means that only around 0.04% of the United States of America would be affected and 0.04% is only 1/250th of what would be required in order for the Chinese weapons to have any "statistically significant" effect, there is simply no reason to even consider what would happen if the Chinese did use their ICBMs in response to an attack on China by the United States of America.

TU Curmudgeon said:

You are 100% correct.

Everyone knows that the Chinese wouldn't even think of using their nuclear weapons if it was attacked by the United States of America.

Besides, even if the Chinese did launch their 55 to 65 nuclear armed ICBMs at the United States of America that would be only one nuclear explosion for every (roughly) 63,300 sq.mi. Since the average blast zone for a nuclear weapon is only about 28 sq.mi. (10 KTn blast), that means that only around 0.04% of the United States of America would be affected and 0.04% is only 1/250th of what would be required in order for the Chinese weapons to have any "statistically significant" effect, there is simply no reason to even consider what would happen if the Chinese did use their ICBMs in response to an attack on China by the United States of America.

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The Chinese dictators are not crazy.

They would never attack the United States first.

They know the United States would reduce China to the proverbial parking lot. (And the Chinese dictators would be ousted in the chaos that followed.)

And, of course, the United States would never attack China first.

So there's no problem.


*****

This obsession with China on the part of many people is just plain silly.

Impartial observers tell us that if you visit the Chinese countryside (as opposed to the glittering showcase cities), you will discover that China is basically still a developing nation. A very insecure one, at that.

chuckiechan said:

With the trillions they have earned in their export account, they can afford to explore the use of soft power in the Americas.

China wants to loan them money they can’t repay so they can own part of it and militarize it against the USA at a time of their choosing.

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And someone figured it out, they are using the old soviet tactic, fund and arm dirt poor countries, and make them so reliant that they essentially become puppet states. Of course china and russia are not the only nations to do such, but it is an effective tactic, especially when a govt is so incompetent it can not run itself, that it is nothing more than ransom benefiting any country willing to fund and arm them.

TheParser said:

The Chinese dictators are not crazy.

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True.

TheParser said:

They would never attack the United States first.

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Don't tell that to the "conservatives" or the military or the government or Mr. Trump.

TheParser said:

They know the United States would reduce China to the proverbial parking lot. (And the Chinese dictators would be ousted in the chaos that followed.)

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Quite right - at least those of them that were still alive would be.

TheParser said:

And, of course, the United States would never attack China first.

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Really?

Then why did you write "P.S. Who cares what China says or does? If it endangers the United States, the American military will easily handle the matter. The dictators in Beijing know that China is no match for the United States."?

Either you believe that the Americans would never attack China first of you believe that the US government would use the American military against China if China does "something" that "endangers (definition being left up to the US government) the United States" - and that would include an actual attack on China even absent an actual Chinese attack on the United States of America.

You can't have it both ways - you are NOT Donald John Trump so that means that you can't live in alternative realities.

TheParser said:

So there's no problem.

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Right, so the US should immediately cut its defence spending by around 40% so that the US only spends as much as the next three largest defence spenders (China, Saudi Arabia, and Russia) combined.

Heck the US could cut its defence spending by over 50% because Saudi Arabia is a modern, progressive, democratic, free, republican, society that is one of America's best friends in the war on terrorism.


*****

TheParser said:

This obsession with China on the part of many people is just plain silly.

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But it gets votes and that is what politics is really all about - isn't it?

TheParser said:

Impartial observers tell us that if you visit the Chinese countryside (as opposed to the glittering showcase cities), you will discover that China is basically still a developing nation. A very insecure one, at that.

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Almost every country is a "developing nation". Some are moving slower than others because they were so far behind to start with. If you can remember when you only got to eat meat a couple of times a month and you are now eating meat twice a week, you think that your country is making wonderful progress. If you come from a country where all you can remember is being able to eat meat twice a day, you think that a country where you can only afford to eat meat twice a week is incredibly backward.

beerftw said:

And someone figured it out, they are using the old soviet tactic, fund and arm dirt poor countries, and make them so reliant that they essentially become puppet states.

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Did you know that that "old soviet tactic" was in use by the United States of America before it was in use by the Soviet Union?

Did you know that that "old soviet tactic" was in use before there was ever a soviet union?

beerftw said:

Of course china and russia are not the only nations to do such, but it is an effective tactic, especially when a govt is so incompetent it can not run itself, that it is nothing more than ransom benefiting any country willing to fund and arm them.

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Quite right, and the US has been doing that in South and Central America ever since December 2, 1823.

TU Curmudgeon said:

The original response was to do with the cost - to the Chinese - of what the Chinese government was doing.

The original question asked was "Which one do you think it the most likely to create a favourable impression of the government doing it in the Venezuelan people/government?".

The original response (although potentially factually correct) had exactly ZIP to do with the original question.

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Nobody is required to respond in the stupid way in which you originally framed it. Only stupid people might, if they so chose.

Yano? Apparently not as I have explained it excessively already.

Gaugingcatenate said:

Nobody is required to respond in the stupid way in which you originally framed it. Only stupid people might, if they so chose.

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Nobody is required to respond at all.

Equally, everyone is entitled to get their knickers in a knot when it is pointed out to them that their "response" has exactly ZIP to do with the question asked.

Gaugingcatenate said:

Yano? Apparently not as I have explained it excessively already.

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Of course you have "explained" that the "response" was NOT in any way a rational answer to the question posed.

I fully understand that some people can't tell the difference between a rational answer and a non sequitur.

Have a good day.

TU Curmudgeon said:

Nobody is required to respond at all.

Equally, everyone is entitled to get their knickers in a knot when it is pointed out to them that their "response" has exactly ZIP to do with the question asked.



Of course you have "explained" that the "response" was NOT in any way a rational answer to the question posed.

I fully understand that some people can't tell the difference between a rational answer and a non sequitur.

Have a good day.

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I will put it to you the way you put the original question to us out here.

Scenario:

1. You can answer this question using the imbecilic and limited original framing but staying within its loony bin parameters.

or...

2. You can answer this question with creativity, with the intelligence that is required and which is actually much more accurate to the situation.

Which would you choose?

And thanks, I had a fantastic day, fantastic week so far. Life is good.

Gaugingcatenate said:

I will put it to you the way you put the original question to us out here.

Scenario:

1. You can answer this question using the imbecilic and limited original framing but staying within its loony bin parameters.

or...

2. You can answer this question with creativity, with the intelligence that is required and which is actually much more accurate to the situation.

Which would you choose?

And thanks, I had a fantastic day, fantastic week so far. Life is good.

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Interesting dilemma.

Unfortunately you seem to have missed the third option (you know, the one that you chose) which is to totally ignore the question and make some irrelevant comment.

However, I guess that you are entitled to think that a question along the lines of "Which is more likely to generate good feelings 'to threaten someone' or 'to offer to help someone'?" is "nonsensical.

PS - The correct word to describe that type of a question is "rhetorical", but you knew that - didn't you?