China cancels trade talks with US amid escalation in tariff threats

From FOX News


China scotched trade talks with the U.S. that were planned for the coming days, according to people briefed on the matter, further dimming prospects for resolving a trade battle between the world’s two largest economies.

The decision to pull out of the talks follows the latest escalation in trade tensions. On Monday, President Trump announced new tariffs on $200 billion in Chinese imports, prompting Beijing to retaliate with levies on $60 billion in U.S. goods. Mr. Trump then vowed to further ratchet up pressure on China by kicking in tariffs on another $257 billion of Chinese products.

Chinese officials have said such pressure tactics wouldn’t induce them to cooperate. By declining to participate in the talks, the people said, Beijing is following up on its pledge to avoid negotiating under threat.

“Everything the U.S. does hasn’t given any impression of sincerity and goodwill,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said at a press briefing Friday. “We hope that the U.S. side will take measures to correct its mistakes.”

COMMENT:-

TU Curmudgeon said:

From FOX News

China cancels trade talks with US amid escalation in tariff threats
​

China scotched trade talks with the U.S. that were planned for the coming days, according to people briefed on the matter, further dimming prospects for resolving a trade battle between the world’s two largest economies.

The decision to pull out of the talks follows the latest escalation in trade tensions. On Monday, President Trump announced new tariffs on $200 billion in Chinese imports, prompting Beijing to retaliate with levies on $60 billion in U.S. goods. Mr. Trump then vowed to further ratchet up pressure on China by kicking in tariffs on another $257 billion of Chinese products.

Chinese officials have said such pressure tactics wouldn’t induce them to cooperate. By declining to participate in the talks, the people said, Beijing is following up on its pledge to avoid negotiating under threat.

“Everything the U.S. does hasn’t given any impression of sincerity and goodwill,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said at a press briefing Friday. “We hope that the U.S. side will take measures to correct its mistakes.”

COMMENT:-

More **F*A*K*E** **N*E*W*S** from the lying, left-wing, liberal, socialist, pinko, commies who are trying to make Mr. Trump look bad. The **T*R*U*T*H** is that the so-called "Chinese" (they aren't really "Chinese" because the real Chinese all fled the communist extermination squads and are living in the free, democratic, Republic of China) are just begging to be allowed back into the US market even if they have to take a loss on everything that they sell and are 100% willing to allow American companies to take over the dominance of the Chinese economy.

Right?
​

Click to expand...

right

TU Curmudgeon said:

From FOX News

China cancels trade talks with US amid escalation in tariff threats
​

China scotched trade talks with the U.S. that were planned for the coming days, according to people briefed on the matter, further dimming prospects for resolving a trade battle between the world’s two largest economies.

The decision to pull out of the talks follows the latest escalation in trade tensions. On Monday, President Trump announced new tariffs on $200 billion in Chinese imports, prompting Beijing to retaliate with levies on $60 billion in U.S. goods. Mr. Trump then vowed to further ratchet up pressure on China by kicking in tariffs on another $257 billion of Chinese products.

Chinese officials have said such pressure tactics wouldn’t induce them to cooperate. By declining to participate in the talks, the people said, Beijing is following up on its pledge to avoid negotiating under threat.

“Everything the U.S. does hasn’t given any impression of sincerity and goodwill,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said at a press briefing Friday. “We hope that the U.S. side will take measures to correct its mistakes.”

COMMENT:-

More **F*A*K*E** **N*E*W*S** from the lying, left-wing, liberal, socialist, pinko, commies who are trying to make Mr. Trump look bad. The **T*R*U*T*H** is that the so-called "Chinese" (they aren't really "Chinese" because the real Chinese all fled the communist extermination squads and are living in the free, democratic, Republic of China) are just begging to be allowed back into the US market even if they have to take a loss on everything that they sell and are 100% willing to allow American companies to take over the dominance of the Chinese economy.

Right?
​

Click to expand...

I think China can "see clearly now the riens have gone."
/

China needs us, but we need them as well. They can afford to play chicken a bit because they're a global player, so I'm not sure if the tactic of continued threats is the smartest thing to do since we need them too.

So much "winning", *sigh*:roll:

I feel like this might be kind of important.

Cardinal said:

I feel like this might be kind of important.

Click to expand...

Hey, once you give in to the Chinese you want to give in to them again in a half hour - right?

Just wait, the usual suspect Trumplings will be along to tell us how our brave leader is kicking Chinese butt, and will have them bowing to his demands in no time....:roll:

Us dumb libruls just don't see his "stable genius" plan. Nvermind that other republicans, economists, hell just about everyone who knows anything can't see it either, Trump is just smarter than everyone, right?:roll::lamo

markjs said:

Trump is just smarter than everyone, right?:roll::lamo

Click to expand...

Nailed it in one.

Of course a nail is something that is insensitive, flat-headed, and has to be pounded to be of any use.

markjs said:

Just wait, the usual suspect Trumplings will be along to tell us how our brave leader is kicking Chinese butt, and will have them bowing to his demands in no time....:roll:

Us dumb libruls just don't see his "stable genius" plan. Nvermind that other republicans, economists, hell just about everyone who knows anything can't see it either, Trump is just smarter than everyone, right?:roll::lamo

Click to expand...

It may be good for Bubba that he has already been paid by the Chinese for selling them US military secrets for 'running around' cash money. Not even a Clinton may be able to get future dirty money contributions from the Chinese now that Trump has challenged them on their worldwide trade policies.

marke said:

It may be good for Bubba that he has already been paid by the Chinese for selling them US military secrets for 'running around' cash money. Not even a Clinton may be able to get future dirty money contributions from the Chinese now that Trump has challenged them on their worldwide trade policies.

Click to expand...

Can you even post without mentioning Clinton or Obama or somehow actually stick to, like the present, or the topic? Is your obsession such that you are incapable of not going there? My god it's like all you think about, and, in case you hadn't noticed, it's BEEN TWO YEARS SINCE OBAMA WAS PRESIDENT. It's been MANY years since Clinton was president (Oh and just for payback, how does it feel knowing Clinton's approval rating (AFTER impeachement) was MOPRE THAN TWICE AS HIGH AS TRUMP's WILL PEAK AT?) We've moved on, why can't you?:roll:

markjs said:

Can you even post without mentioning Clinton or Obama or somehow actually stick to, like the present, or the topic? Is your obsession such that you are incapable of not going there? My god it's like all you think about, and, in case you hadn't noticed, it's BEEN TWO YEARS SINCE OBAMA WAS PRESIDENT. It's been MANY years since Clinton was president (Oh and just for payback, how does it feel knowing Clinton's approval rating (AFTER impeachement) was MOPRE THAN TWICE AS HIGH AS TRUMP's WILL PEAK AT?) We've moved on, why can't you?:roll:

Click to expand...

Of course Clinton's approval rating is through the roof, proving leftists do not condemn democrats with a long history of abusing women. They don't treat Kavanaugh that way because Kavanaugh will certainly not promote their wicked barbarian democrat policies and agenda.

marke said:

Of course Clinton's approval rating is through the roof, proving leftists do not condemn democrats with a long history of abusing women. They don't treat Kavanaugh that way because Kavanaugh will certainly not promote their wicked barbarian democrat policies and agenda.

Click to expand...

So your answer would be no, you can't post without mentioning it....

TU Curmudgeon said:

From FOX News

China cancels trade talks with US amid escalation in tariff threats
​

China scotched trade talks with the U.S. that were planned for the coming days, according to people briefed on the matter, further dimming prospects for resolving a trade battle between the world’s two largest economies.

The decision to pull out of the talks follows the latest escalation in trade tensions. On Monday, President Trump announced new tariffs on $200 billion in Chinese imports, prompting Beijing to retaliate with levies on $60 billion in U.S. goods. Mr. Trump then vowed to further ratchet up pressure on China by kicking in tariffs on another $257 billion of Chinese products.

Chinese officials have said such pressure tactics wouldn’t induce them to cooperate. By declining to participate in the talks, the people said, Beijing is following up on its pledge to avoid negotiating under threat.

“Everything the U.S. does hasn’t given any impression of sincerity and goodwill,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said at a press briefing Friday. “We hope that the U.S. side will take measures to correct its mistakes.”

COMMENT:-

More **F*A*K*E** **N*E*W*S** from the lying, left-wing, liberal, socialist, pinko, commies who are trying to make Mr. Trump look bad. The **T*R*U*T*H** is that the so-called "Chinese" (they aren't really "Chinese" because the real Chinese all fled the communist extermination squads and are living in the free, democratic, Republic of China) are just begging to be allowed back into the US market even if they have to take a loss on everything that they sell and are 100% willing to allow American companies to take over the dominance of the Chinese economy.

Right?
​

Click to expand...

They are screwing around with Scotch now? Goddamn you Trump!!!!

ElChupacabra said:

China needs us, but we need them as well. They can afford to play chicken a bit because they're a global player, so I'm not sure if the tactic of continued threats is the smartest thing to do since we need them too.

Click to expand...

But the Chinese government does not answer to its people or its state-owned corporations. For the CCP, this is a matter of prestige and the world is watching. They are already introducing the Renminbi as a secondary global monetary system through the BRICS Bank and AIIB, which has received the highest credit ratings from the three biggest rating agencies in the world, and is seen as a potential rival to the World Bank and IMF.

We aren't exactly playing chicken here. We are playing as if we are the only players in the game still and expect rising powers to pretend with us. This is just one more example where Trump has placed the U.S. in a position where it will lose more credibility. Americans will lose patience long before the CCP does. A pompous and ego-driven trade-war with an autocratic nation as big as China was not the way to handle Trump's "concerns."

This is like the Cuban Missile Crisis, where one side didn't think it through, got in way over his head, and then looked for the other side to help him out without losing face. Except now we are Krushchev.

MSgt said:

They are screwing around with Scotch now? Goddamn you Trump!!!!

Click to expand...

At one time I was the "Keeper of the Scotch" in the firm I was with. We generally stocked over 15 different brands/vintages of Scotch - almost all of which had been "imported according to ancient Scottish right and tradition".

Keep that in mind.

MSgt said:

But the Chinese government does not answer to its people or its state-owned corporations. For the CCP, this is a matter of prestige and the world is watching. They are already introducing the Renminbi as a secondary global monetary system through the BRICS Bank and AIIB, which has received the highest credit ratings from the three biggest rating agencies in the world, and is seen as a potential rival to the World Bank and IMF.

We aren't exactly playing chicken here. We are playing as if we are the only players in the game still and expect rising powers to pretend with us. This is just one more example where Trump has placed the U.S. in a position where it will lose more credibility. Americans will lose patience long before the CCP does. A pompous and ego-driven trade-war with an autocratic nation as big as China was not the way to handle Trump's "concerns."

This is like the Cuban Missile Crisis, where one side didn't think it through, got in way over his head, and then looked for the other side to help him out without losing face. Except now we are Krushchev.

Click to expand...

Good analogy, except for on minor point.

Mr. Khrushchev HAD thought it through.

The problem was that his postulates were incorrect, and "False Postulates + Impeccable Logic = Really Impressive Sounding Crap".

(The corollary, of course is "False Postulates + Crappy Logic = Potentially Dangerous Drivel".]

MSgt said:

But the Chinese government does not answer to its people or its state-owned corporations. For the CCP, this is a matter of prestige and the world is watching. They are already introducing the Renminbi as a secondary global monetary system through the BRICS Bank and AIIB, which has received the highest credit ratings from the three biggest rating agencies in the world, and is seen as a potential rival to the World Bank and IMF.

We aren't exactly playing chicken here. We are playing as if we are the only players in the game still and expect rising powers to pretend with us. This is just one more example where Trump has placed the U.S. in a position where it will lose more credibility. Americans will lose patience long before the CCP does. A pompous and ego-driven trade-war with an autocratic nation as big as China was not the way to handle Trump's "concerns."

This is like the Cuban Missile Crisis, where one side didn't think it through, got in way over his head, and then looked for the other side to help him out without losing face. Except now we are Krushchev.

Click to expand...

The biggest losses for the US will be from its automakers (Ford, GM, FCA) and Boeing.

Should China slap larger US made planes with tariffs, the Chinese market will be open for Airbus, with little Boeing competition. The Chinese market is expected to be the largest for the next 20 years. Of course Boeing can get around it by building the planes in China.

The US automakers will likely see sales in the largest automarket drop, with GM already leaving Europe, Ford looking to potentially leave Europe, the loss of the largest market in the world to its Japanese and European competitors will see them be at a strategic disadvantage within the US as the other companies will be able to spread the costs of development on a much larger sales volume. The only savings grace for the domestics will be the market dominance in full size trucks and the healthy profits they bring in.

MSgt said:

But the Chinese government does not answer to its people or its state-owned corporations. For the CCP, this is a matter of prestige and the world is watching. They are already introducing the Renminbi as a secondary global monetary system through the BRICS Bank and AIIB, which has received the highest credit ratings from the three biggest rating agencies in the world, and is seen as a potential rival to the World Bank and IMF.

We aren't exactly playing chicken here. We are playing as if we are the only players in the game still and expect rising powers to pretend with us. This is just one more example where Trump has placed the U.S. in a position where it will lose more credibility. Americans will lose patience long before the CCP does. A pompous and ego-driven trade-war with an autocratic nation as big as China was not the way to handle Trump's "concerns."

This is like the Cuban Missile Crisis, where one side didn't think it through, got in way over his head, and then looked for the other side to help him out without losing face. Except now we are Krushchev.

Click to expand...

That's where I was going with the playing chicken comment. The assumption was that raising tariffs would have China immediately capitulate, and when they didn't this administration doubled down. I think the idea that the US is the only game in town isn't something that's an easy sell anymore. Sure, it's still a massive market and one that can't be easily ignored, but how it does business is a factor as well and the tactics thus far haven't been as effective as I'm sure this administration thought they would be.

TU Curmudgeon said:

Good analogy, except for on minor point.

Mr. Khrushchev HAD thought it through.

The problem was that his postulates were incorrect, and "False Postulates + Impeccable Logic = Really Impressive Sounding Crap".

(The corollary, of course is "False Postulates + Crappy Logic = Potentially Dangerous Drivel".]

Click to expand...

Oh, he most definitely did not think it through. When the Soviet archives were released in the 1990s, we discovered that Khrushchev and his advisers had not thought through how or even whether to use the nuclear weapons should Kennedy challenge. Their Cuban policy was half-baked.

Khrushchev was frustrated over Germany, angry with the Chinese for mocking him, and believed that Kennedy was irresolute. Therefore, Khrushchev wanted to save the Cuban revolution to give the U.S. a taste of its own medicine because of what he correctly saw as a capitalist/military encirclement of the Soviet Union (I'm sure you know the geographic details); AND he wanted to prove himself to Beijing and the Politburo. He also believed that communism was on the up worldwide. It was Khrushchev who secured Moscow's leadership agreement and then he consulted Castro, who was at first reluctant. Soviets began arriving in secret to Cuba in May 1962.

- He did not consider the U.S. foreign policy, which was in accordance to a long held conviction to the Monroe Doctrine. This meant that rather than seeing this as a defensive measure to protect Castro, the U.S. saw it as a backyard invasion and a preparation for an attack. The U.S. reacted accordingly.

- He assumed there would be no real reaction and that Kennedy would not risk nuclear war. Yet, because of the proximity, Kennedy announced a quarantine and elevated military forces worldwide to full combat readiness.

- He assumed the Atlantic Ocean would be a free-flowing superhighway for Soviet supply ships to Cuba. Yet, the Soviets, realizing that there Cuban venture was grossly miscalculated, did not even pretend to challenge the quarantine. Some Soviet ships freely allowed for inspection. But Khrushchev himself quickly gave the order to turn ships away.


Khrushchev approached the entire venture from the standpoint of the Soviet perspective, his own Marxist ideology, and his own vanity. He attempted to apply Soviet Policy without regard to U.S. Policy. And this is why Kennedy got the win here. In spite of playing hardball, he gave diplomacy a chance. He understood that Khrushchev had miscalculated and had to answer for it somehow without appearing too weak. This is exactly why he was given Turkey's missiles, which were already chosen to be dismantled months prior, and a promise not to invade Cuba, which Kennedy wasn't keen on doing anyway after the Bay of Pigs fiasco that he half-assed. Kennedy's political prestige went up in the world and he found new allies in Washington.

Khruschev's personal power, which was already on the decline, took a blow. High Soviet officials complained publicly and the Eastern Bloc began to assert more autonomy.

Lord Tammerlain said:

The biggest losses for the US will be from its automakers (Ford, GM, FCA) and Boeing.

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Quite likely.

Mind you Mr. Trump just reached a Great Trade Deal with the ROK whereby he forced the ROK to increase the number of American manufactured cars that do not meet the safety standards of the ROK that American companies can sell in the ROK so that will more than make up for any insignificant loss of sales in the PRC.

[NOTE - Please do not tell Mr. Trump that American companies cannot sell, in the ROK, even the number of cars that do not meet the safety standards of the ROK that had PREVIOUSLY been allowed under the "unfair trade deal" that he has replaced with his "Great Trade Deal".]

Lord Tammerlain said:

Should China slap larger US made planes with tariffs, the Chinese market will be open for Airbus, with little Boeing competition.

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If Airbus doesn't raise its prices so that Boeing can "compete on a level playing field" then Mr. Trump will have absolutely no option but to sanction the EU and Airbus.

Lord Tammerlain said:

The Chinese market is expected to be the largest for the next 20 years.

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Apparently not by Mr. Trump.

Lord Tammerlain said:

Of course Boeing can get around it by building the planes in China.

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True, but is is only going to be able to do that by paying the price (allowing the Chinese access to their proprietary information) that the government of the PRC is requesting that it pays for access to the Chinese market.

Lord Tammerlain said:

The US automakers will likely see sales in the largest automarket drop, with GM already leaving Europe, Ford looking to potentially leave Europe, the loss of the largest market in the world to its Japanese and European competitors will see them be at a strategic disadvantage within the US as the other companies will be able to spread the costs of development on a much larger sales volume. The only savings grace for the domestics will be the market dominance in full size trucks and the healthy profits they bring in.

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I understand that US automakers have already developed plans for American built vehicles that will totally replace imports from foreign countries.

These will all be marketed under the name **A*M*E*R*I*C*A*N** **M*O*T*O*R*S** and you can see pictures of them HERE and HERE.

MSgt said:

Oh, he most definitely did not think it through.

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He most certainly did "think it through", unfortunately that "thinking through" was based on a false postulate.

The false postulate was (as you post makes quite clear) "The US government will make a lot of noise, but won't actually do anything concrete.".

Once that false postulate was ingrained in the planning, there was zero need to consider what the Russians would do if the US government DID do something concrete.

Hence "False Postulate + Impeccable Logic = Really Impressive Sounding Crap" strikes again.

You might analogize that situation to the US government's plans for what to do if Iraq DID NOT have "vast stockpiles of WMD" or the US government's plans for what to do if the Iraqis DID NOT welcome the US "liberation" with showers of flowers thrown by hordes of eager, nubile, young maidens. If you did, you wouldn't be all that far off the mark.

TU Curmudgeon said:

He most certainly did "think it through", unfortunately that "thinking through" was based on a false postulate.

The false postulate was (as you post makes quite clear) "The US government will make a lot of noise, but won't actually do anything concrete.".

Once that false postulate was ingrained in the planning, there was zero need to consider what the Russians would do if the US government DID do something concrete.

Hence "False Postulate + Impeccable Logic = Really Impressive Sounding Crap" strikes again.

You might analogize that situation to the US government's plans for what to do if Iraq DID NOT have "vast stockpiles of WMD" or the US government's plans for what to do if the Iraqis DID NOT welcome the US "liberation" with showers of flowers thrown by hordes of eager, nubile, young maidens. If you did, you wouldn't be all that far off the mark.

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But this is rationalizing against the grain. The very fact of a "false postulate" means that it was not thought through. In regards to Iraq, it was thought through, but the Bush Administration rejected the Pentagons living CENTCOM plan, which demanded far more troops in order to handle the occupation. Back to Khrushchev, it is widely understood, even through Soviet archives, that Khrushchev was led by ego and an assumption that completely disregarded U.S. Policy as an inconvenience. With the history and the global activity by the early 1960s, this assumption was almost whimsical. Some examples:

- The U.S. was relentless in its preoccupation with communism in Latin and South America since the 1940s, which led to supporting military regimes, especially in the 1950s.
- American international leadership against communism in the 1950-53 Korean War.
- CIA-led coup in Iran in 1953.
- The Truman Doctrine of "containment" was extended to the Middle East by Eisenhower.
- Eisenhower chastised Britain, France and Israel with threats over the Suez War.
- With the Cold War being vastly militarized throughout the 1950s, NSC-68 was in full swing by the 1960s.

So, the U.S. was truly a far reaching global power in a way that the Soviet Union only pretended to be. As for Kennedy himself:

- Kennedy had long held the public opinion that the U.S. had to prevent the postcolonial states from falling into the lap of the Soviet Union.
- His ideology of the Cold War was that the U.S. needed to win, not merely create stability.
- In his 1961 inaugural address, Kennedy stated that "...few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. ...I welcome it."
- Kennedy doubled down in Vietnam throughout 1961.
- In regards to Laotian communists, he authorized CIA covert action in Laos in 1961, dispatched the 7th Fleet, placed combat troops on Okinawa on alert, and sent troops to Thailand.
- Inheriting Eisenhower's efforts to rid the Western Hemisphere of Castro, Kennedy authorized the Bay of Pigs in 1961.
- Khrushchev underestimated Kennedy over Germany when he tried to bully him in the 1961 summer summit. Kennedy's response was to ask Congress for $3.5 billion more for West Germany. Khrushchev's fumed and built a wall.

So, when it came to a scheme to place nuclear missiles on Cuba, nothing of this U.S. history helps Khrushchev come to the conclusion that the U.S. or Kennedy would abide a Soviet infraction of the Monroe Doctrine in 1962. He would have had to expressly excuse all of this history in order to come up with a "false postulate." And when Kennedy reacted in the only way that makes sense, Moscow did not know what to do. Not only did they not think this through from a U.S. reaction standpoint, but they had no idea what to do with their military presence or even how to supply it. There wasn't even a wish to even use the missiles. So, when Kennedy called Khrushchev's bluff and placed the military in DEFCON 2 (the only time in history) and simply inserted a naval quarantine around the island and in the Atlantic, Khrushchev truly had no plan. When it was over, there was no saving Khrushchev. He was criticized for his recklessness and overthrown in 1964.

MSgt said:

But this is rationalizing against the grain. The very fact of a "false postulate" means that it was not thought through.

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All of your points are valid.

Where we differ is in what "thinking through" means.

I will agree with you if you want to take the position that the Russians did not "think through" the Cuban situation correctly, but I cannot agree with you if you want to take the position that they didn't "think through" the Cuban situation at all.

In fact, if you want to say that Mr. Khrushchev was as "delusional" about Cuba as Mr. Bush was about Iraq, I won't disagree with you.

TU Curmudgeon said:

All of your points are valid.

Where we differ is in what "thinking through" means.

I will agree with you if you want to take the position that the Russians did not "think through" the Cuban situation correctly, but I cannot agree with you if you want to take the position that they didn't "think through" the Cuban situation at all.

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We are splitting hairs on the term. My meaning is that they got to a point and stopped thinking of what comes next. They clearly thought of nothing beyond putting missiles on Cuba. Most of their Cuban policy revolved around the assumption that Kennedy wouldn't react at all. But this assumption made no historical, nor immediate U.S. policy sense.

TU Curmudgeon said:

In fact, if you want to say that Mr. Khrushchev was as "delusional" about Cuba as Mr. Bush was about Iraq, I won't disagree with you.

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Well, I don't think Bush had a clue either way. That was all Rumsfeld and Cheney. Bush was never really a NeoCon. This is why I argued even back then that Bush stumbled into what needs to happen across the region. And it drove me crazy when it actually happened in 2010 (Arab Spring) and the GOP shrugged at the very thing they supported and argued for in 2003. Obama's reaction, by asking for an embarrassingly low aid package and riding the fence between "our" dictators and the people screaming for democracy, was pathetic.