Companies aren't rushing to bring home overseas cash

From CBS News


When Congress passed the sweeping tax cut legislation late last year, one of its promised benefits was what would surely be a massive amount of repatriation of U.S. corporate profits held overseas for years to avoid the U.S. taxes on those gains. And in the three months ended in June, U.S. companies brought back roughly $170 billion in overseas profits, according to government report released this week.

That may sound like a lot, but it's far less than the $295 billion firms repatriated in the first quarter. The figure is about 17 percent of the the estimated $2.7 trillion held overseas, funds that have been stockpiled over years by huge companies such as Apple and Pfizer. Keeping profits earned overseas outside the U.S. helps companies cut their U.S. corporate tax bill, but they can't use those funds to invest at home.

The new tax law aimed to address that by using a lower, one-time 15.5 percent tax rate as an incentive to bring the funds back, with the idea that companies will invest in their U.S. operations, add jobs and boost the economy. President Donald Trump advocated for this portion of the law, predicting before the tax bill's passage that a mammoth $4 trillion would be repatriated.

Earlier this week, The Wall Street Journal published an analysis of securities filings from 108 publicly traded companies that hold most of that $2.7 trillion, asking each company how it's using the money. About two-thirds of the $143 billion in public company repatriated funds the Journal identified came from two companies: Cisco Systems and drugmaker Gilead Sciences.

COMMENT:-

CSPI just did. An outstanding move on their part too.

I don't know - will these companies ever bring the money back stateside? The corporate world has become significantly globalized, and there's many, many markets that are either poised or already quickly developing. What's the incentive to transit the money back to the USA instead of investing it in global operations?

Look at what Apple really does. They create an overseas subsidiary in Ireland, sell their patent rights to that company and then the parent company "rents" those rights to hide revenue and pay lower taxes. Its part of their revenue scheme to keep the money overseas. They have no intention to expatriate that money.

OpportunityCost said:

Look at what Apple really does. They create an overseas subsidiary in Ireland, sell their patent rights to that company and then the parent company "rents" those rights to hide revenue and pay lower taxes. Its part of their revenue scheme to keep the money overseas. They have no intention to expatriate that money.

Click to expand...

That is what is known in the business world as "smart".

Ask Mr. Trump how much he pays in income tax if you want to learn what "smart" is.

TU Curmudgeon said:

That is what is known in the business world as "smart".

Ask Mr. Trump how much he pays in income tax if you want to learn what "smart" is.

Click to expand...

I'm not arguing whether smart or not I am arguing why they won't expatriate the money.

Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk

everyone who has been paying attention for the past three decades knew that the tax cuts were going to go into the pockets of the rich and would not trickle down to regular workers. same thing with "repatriated" money. FFS, it's not like we didn't all see Lucy pull the football every time when we were like six years old or so.

Helix said:

everyone who has been paying attention for the past three decades knew that the tax cuts were going to go into the pockets of the rich and would not trickle down to regular workers. same thing with "repatriated" money. FFS, it's not like we didn't all see Lucy pull the football every time when we were like six years old or so.

Click to expand...

This is what makes no sense.

- The 1% was clearly created out of Reaganomics (Trickle-Down).

- Corporations sat on over a trillion uninvested dollars during the 2008-09 crisis; while banks froze lending and seized homes/small businesses, proving Trickle-Down a bad theory.

- Deregulated banks have routinely been behind the major global economic crises since the 1890s.

- Trump inherited an upward trend in both economy and employment.



And everything we have seen since his election has been centered around the wealthy and key industry investors in order to deliver quick temporary bursts of cash:

- Trump immediately began rolling back all of Obama's environmental protection EOs in order to release energy companies into the wild.

- A temporary tax-cut to the middle-class and a permanent tax-cut to the wealthy is trickle-down economics (though they don't even bother with that term anymore).

- Trump pushed the bank deregulation bill in March of 2018.


In the meantime, he falsely declares that he is why the economy and the unemployment rate is what it is, despite the empirical evidence of the trend. His boosts are temporary and damaging. And as conservatives simply default to the idea that the GOP actually cares about their wallets, the GOP feeds the wealthy at their expense right before their very eyes. They owe their blindness to false ideology:

Criticism towards this mess = class warfare = socialism = communism = Bolshevik = Soviet = Stalin = Evil. "Freedom and Democracy, you leftist!"

MSgt said:

This is what makes no sense.

- The 1% was clearly created out of Reaganomics (Trickle-Down).

- Corporations sat on over a trillion uninvested dollars during the 2008-09 crisis; while banks froze lending and seized homes/small businesses, proving Trickle-Down a bad theory.

- Deregulated banks have routinely been behind the major global economic crises since the 1890s.

- Trump inherited an upward trend in both economy and employment.



And everything we have seen since his election has been centered around the wealthy and key industry investors in order to deliver quick temporary bursts of cash:

- Trump immediately began rolling back all of Obama's environmental protection EOs in order to release energy companies into the wild.

- A temporary tax-cut to the middle-class and a permanent tax-cut to the wealthy is trickle-down economics (though they don't even bother with that term anymore).

- Trump pushed the bank deregulation bill in March of 2018.


In the meantime, he falsely declares that he is why the economy and the unemployment rate is what it is, despite the empirical evidence of the trend. His boosts are temporary and damaging. And as conservatives simply default to the idea that the GOP actually cares about their wallets, the GOP feeds the wealthy at their expense right before their very eyes. They owe their blindness to false ideology:

Criticism towards this mess = class warfare = socialism = communism = Bolshevik = Soviet = Stalin = Evil. "Freedom and Democracy, you leftist!"

Click to expand...

CSPI is a corporation that all were allowed to buy into. What wonderful admins to have realized a 25% total return corporate wide by exiting Germany overnight.

MSgt said:

This is what makes no sense.

- The 1% was clearly created out of Reaganomics (Trickle-Down).

- Corporations sat on over a trillion uninvested dollars during the 2008-09 crisis; while banks froze lending and seized homes/small businesses, proving Trickle-Down a bad theory.

- Deregulated banks have routinely been behind the major global economic crises since the 1890s.

- Trump inherited an upward trend in both economy and employment.



And everything we have seen since his election has been centered around the wealthy and key industry investors in order to deliver quick temporary bursts of cash:

- Trump immediately began rolling back all of Obama's environmental protection EOs in order to release energy companies into the wild.

- A temporary tax-cut to the middle-class and a permanent tax-cut to the wealthy is trickle-down economics (though they don't even bother with that term anymore).

- Trump pushed the bank deregulation bill in March of 2018.


In the meantime, he falsely declares that he is why the economy and the unemployment rate is what it is, despite the empirical evidence of the trend. His boosts are temporary and damaging. And as conservatives simply default to the idea that the GOP actually cares about their wallets, the GOP feeds the wealthy at their expense right before their very eyes. They owe their blindness to false ideology:

Criticism towards this mess = class warfare = socialism = communism = Bolshevik = Soviet = Stalin = Evil. "Freedom and Democracy, you leftist!"

Click to expand...

i agree with pretty much all of that.

i'm a scientist and not an economist. however, it seems like every time that they give the rich everything that they want, they gamble us into a crash. i hope that i'm wrong this time around.

Helix said:

i agree with pretty much all of that.

i'm a scientist and not an economist. however, it seems like every time that they give the rich everything that they want, they gamble us into a crash. i hope that i'm wrong this time around.

Click to expand...

What kind of scientist?

They have been gambling us into disaster ever since 1893, which was the first global economic crisis on record. Deregulated banks have always been involved. I would think we would learn. However, we did learn one thing:

- The government refused to "bail out" banks in the 1890s and in 1929. The crash of 1929 led to the Great Depression.
- The government refused to "bail out" Lehman Brothers in 2008 and lending banks all over the world froze. To stave off depression, Bush and Obama began bailing and reduced what was ahead to the Great Recession.

People like arguing that government has no place in a free market and that capitalism works best uninhibited. But this is historically wrong. Their mistake is to compare communism and capitalism (as two different economic systems), show where one fails and how the other is associated to freedom and democracy, thus somehow translating to a necessity for purity (or extremes) in select terms, such as; socialism is attributed to communism, thus has no place in a capitalist nation. Or central planning is attributed to communism, thus a capitalist government has no business in business.

But government is always involved in economy and industry/banking giants have consistently proven that they need a babysitter or they will drag society into a ditch. And as much as people like to think that American companies care about America, they do not. Corporations, unless state-owned such as in Russia or China, are not nationalist organizations. If it makes more economic sense to go abroad, that is exactly what capitalism (even common sense) will dictate.

MSgt said:

What kind of scientist?

They have been gambling us into disaster ever since 1893, which was the first global economic crisis on record. Deregulated banks have always been involved. I would think we would learn. However, we did learn one thing:

- The government refused to "bail out" banks in the 1890s and in 1929. The crash of 1929 led to the Great Depression.
- The government refused to "bail out" Lehman Brothers in 2008 and lending banks all over the world froze. To stave off depression, Bush and Obama began bailing and reduced what was ahead to the Great Recession.

People like arguing that government has no place in a free market and that capitalism works best uninhibited. But this is historically wrong. Their mistake is to compare communism and capitalism (as two different economic systems), show where one fails and how the other is associated to freedom and democracy, thus somehow translating to a necessity for purity (or extremes) in select terms, such as; socialism is attributed to communism, thus has no place in a capitalist nation. Or central planning is attributed to communism, thus a capitalist government has no business in business.

But government is always involved in economy and industry/banking giants have consistently proven that they need a babysitter or they will drag society into a ditch.

Click to expand...

i'm a lab rat who has worked in academia and industry. most of my experience is in biochem / micro. i like lab work. the bull**** that goes with that job is manageable; at least so far.

as for the rest, i'm for regulated capitalism. under-regulated capitalism results in bigger and bigger winners. basically, it eats itself. same thing with government, too. if you toss all of the chips that way, you're still dealing with the same assholes.

MSgt said:

This is what makes no sense.

- The 1% was clearly created out of Reaganomics (Trickle-Down).

Click to expand...

The 1% has always existed. You’ve heard of the Pareto Principle? It gets smaller the more government intrudes in wealth creation. There was a really tiny 1% in the USSR.


-

Corporations sat on over a trillion uninvested dollars during the 2008-09 crisis; while banks froze lending and seized homes/small businesses, proving Trickle-Down a bad theory.

Click to expand...

It’s their money... and the crisis was caused by government forcing banks to make bad loans... when those loans could not be paid back... BOOM!!! Government caused misery once again.

-

Deregulated banks have routinely been behind the major global economic crises since the 1890s.

Click to expand...

Somewhat true. When the government is the insurer, idiocy can occur. Once again... government is the culprit.

You see a pattern with misery creation? Yes you do... G O V E R N M E N T.

-

Trump inherited an upward trend in both economy and employment.

Click to expand...

Obama’s last quarter was 1.6%.
Obama did not have a year with 3% growth despite pissing away 10 Trillion.
Obama was hostile to business.

Obama ****ed up badly. Trump’s promise of deregulation and tax cuts changed things. People knew there would be a business friendly environment, and there is. Unlike Obama, he does not want to punish businesses.

And everything we have seen since his election has been centered around the wealthy and key industry investors in order to deliver quick temporary bursts of cash:

- Trump immediately began rolling back all of Obama's environmental protection EOs in order to release energy companies into the wild.

- A temporary tax-cut to the middle-class and a permanent tax-cut to the wealthy is trickle-down economics (though they don't even bother with that term anymore).

- Trump pushed the bank deregulation bill in March of 2018.


In the meantime, he falsely declares that he is why the economy and the unemployment rate is what it is, despite the empirical evidence of the trend. His boosts are temporary and damaging. And as conservatives simply default to the idea that the GOP actually cares about their wallets, the GOP feeds the wealthy at their expense right before their very eyes. They owe their blindness to false ideology: https://www.weeklystandard.com/john...ss-denies-ever-attending-party-with-kavanaugh
Criticism towards this mess = class warfare = socialism = communism = Bolshevik = Soviet = Stalin = Evil. "Freedom and Democracy, you leftist!"

Click to expand...

Yep... he’s gutted Obama’s idiocy. Perfect.

Yep. He’s encouraged short term growth. Perfect.

Yep. He wants to make the tax cuts permanent and reduce them further. Perfect.

The wealthy score bigger wins when the economy is tight. They get to scoop up deals left, right and center. As Warren Buffet or Charlie Munger... they FEAST when the economy collapses under Carter or Obama-like failures... because they have the means to “protect” companies.

You really seem to love failure.

PS. There will always be recessions, as markets overheat... it’s natural... but to grow and prosper... taxes need be low for all, and government needs to stay out of the damn way.

Thanks Trump.

PS2... you claim Trump inherited Obama’s economy (ROTFLOL), and then claim he’s into quick fixes which has caused this awesome growth... which is it?

ROTFLOL

zimmer said:

The 1% has always existed. You’ve heard of the Pareto Principle? It gets smaller the more government intrudes in wealth creation. There was a really tiny 1% in the USSR.

Click to expand...

According to the Congressional Budget Office, between 1979 and 2007 incomes of the top 1% of Americans grew by an average of 275%. Hence today's American 1% and our status as having the worst inequality in the world is indeed a product of Reagan-era Trickle-Down economics.

zimmer said:

It’s their money... and the crisis was caused by government forcing banks to make bad loans... when those loans could not be paid back... BOOM!!! Government caused misery once again.

Click to expand...

No, it's your money. Government gave them this money through loop-holes and tax-cuts whle telling Americans that it would "Trickle-Down." It did not, and instead went to feed the 1%. Businesses are not benevolent. They seek to make money, thus if they do not see a way to make money, it will not trikle-down.

And the notion that government caused the misery because it pressured banks to loan to the poor has long been debunked. This was a false narrative, pushed by those who wanted to escape responsibility as they tried to brand themselves as victims, thus deceiving people into thinking that government should deregulate the banks. The real estate bubble was a phenomenon fueled mostly by creditworthy borrowers buying and selling homes they simply thought wouldn’t ever decrease in value.

zimmer said:

Obama’s last quarter was 1.6%.
Obama did not have a year with 3% growth despite pissing away 10 Trillion.
Obama was hostile to business.

Obama ****ed up badly. Trump’s promise of deregulation and tax cuts changed things. People knew there would be a business friendly environment, and there is. Unlike Obama, he does not want to punish businesses.

Click to expand...

Obama's last quarter was not the trend. The trend:

2010 - 2.5%
2012 - 2.5%
2014 - 2.2%
2015 - 2.9%
2016 - 1.9%

2017 - 2.3%

Those were his best years during the global recovery. But funny how 3.0%, not 2.9%, is supposed to mean the measure of success following the Great Recession (which was a global bust, not just a normal recession); and Trump's 2017 is less than Obama's 2010, 2012, and 2015, for which you Trump loyalists have dismiss altogether. But just a .1% difference in 2015 would strip you all of your tired FOX News-inspired talking point, wouldn't it? How petty.

The GOP took control of government in 2014. This left one last year of economic residual in 2015 before the "Party of No's" games locked government function down throughout 2016. And after 2016, a Republican President got to reap the benefits of the trend because the Republican-led Congress got out of the way. Late 2017 tax-cuts and early 2018 deregulation changed nothing. Your argument is nonsensical since the economy magically rebounded back to trend before these things. You have allowed yourself to be manipulated by a Party that does not put America first at all. If they did, 2016 would have been better, thus making 2017 better.

zimmer said:

You really seem to love failure. Thanks Trump.

Click to expand...

I love truth. You should try it. First, you have to remove your partisan blinders. Sacrifice any goats yet? I imagine when Trump loses in 2020, we will have to place you on suicide watch.

zimmer said:

. you claim Trump inherited Obama’s economy (ROTFLOL), and then claim he’s into quick fixes which has caused this awesome growth...

Click to expand...

Um, no. Trump, as the empirical evidence clearly shows, did inherit the trend; and Trump's "quick fixes" were not fixes. The "fix" to what occurred in 2016 was for Congress to start behaving again when a Republican won the White House. Trump's temporary and unnecessary boosts in 2017 went directly to the wealthy, at your expense, which has been his agenda all along. Virtually everything he has done with economy has been centered around the wealthy, not you. Deregulating the banks, which lie behind depressions and recessions, is not for you. At some point, I hope you learn that while the wealthy do enjoy you being a good dog for them, they will kick you when they are done. In fact, when your tax-cuts expire with American debt even higher, the wealthy will thank you for more of your Trickle-Up taxes as you bear the burden that Trump is creating right before your very eyes.

TU Curmudgeon said:

From CBS News

Companies aren't rushing to bring home overseas cash
​

When Congress passed the sweeping tax cut legislation late last year, one of its promised benefits was what would surely be a massive amount of repatriation of U.S. corporate profits held overseas for years to avoid the U.S. taxes on those gains. And in the three months ended in June, U.S. companies brought back roughly $170 billion in overseas profits, according to government report released this week.

That may sound like a lot, but it's far less than the $295 billion firms repatriated in the first quarter. The figure is about 17 percent of the the estimated $2.7 trillion held overseas, funds that have been stockpiled over years by huge companies such as Apple and Pfizer. Keeping profits earned overseas outside the U.S. helps companies cut their U.S. corporate tax bill, but they can't use those funds to invest at home.

The new tax law aimed to address that by using a lower, one-time 15.5 percent tax rate as an incentive to bring the funds back, with the idea that companies will invest in their U.S. operations, add jobs and boost the economy. President Donald Trump advocated for this portion of the law, predicting before the tax bill's passage that a mammoth $4 trillion would be repatriated.

Earlier this week, The Wall Street Journal published an analysis of securities filings from 108 publicly traded companies that hold most of that $2.7 trillion, asking each company how it's using the money. About two-thirds of the $143 billion in public company repatriated funds the Journal identified came from two companies: Cisco Systems and drugmaker Gilead Sciences.

COMMENT:-

It appears that the largest share of the money that was brought into the US was used to create artificial shortages (of stocks) in order to drive up prices (of stocks) which, naturally, drove up the DJIA and made it look like the US economy was doing better than it actually was doing (which wasn't all that bad because its performance was pretty much in line with the trend line of the preceding decade).
​

Click to expand...

Utter nonsense...


Thanks To Tax Cuts, Companies' Overseas Profits Now Flooding Back To U.S.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/overseas-profits-return/
" All told, the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) reported, some $305.6 billion returned to the U.S. from overseas accounts. That's a $1.2 trillion annual rate, and far more than the $35 billion one year before."


305 billion as of June 2018, which is 10 times the amount of the previous year under Obama era tax policy

MSgt said:

But government is always involved in economy and industry/banking giants have consistently proven that they need a babysitter or they will drag society into a ditch. And as much as people like to think that American companies care about America, they do not. Corporations, unless state-owned such as in Russia or China, are not nationalist organizations. If it makes more economic sense to go abroad, that is exactly what capitalism (even common sense) will dictate.

Click to expand...

The most efficient and productive period for the American economy was during WWII when the US economy was almost totally a "managed economy".

Fenton said:

Utter nonsense...


Thanks To Tax Cuts, Companies' Overseas Profits Now Flooding Back To U.S.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/overseas-profits-return/
" All told, the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) reported, some $305.6 billion returned to the U.S. from overseas accounts. That's a $1.2 trillion annual rate, and far more than the $35 billion one year before."


305 billion as of June 2018, which is 10 times the amount of the previous year under Obama era tax policy

Click to expand...

Interesting calculations.

Now, let's see.

If I charge $10.00 for cutting grass,


(please do not look into how many hours per year I spend cutting grass).

TU Curmudgeon said:

From CBS News

Companies aren't rushing to bring home overseas cash
​

When Congress passed the sweeping tax cut legislation late last year, one of its promised benefits was what would surely be a massive amount of repatriation of U.S. corporate profits held overseas for years to avoid the U.S. taxes on those gains. And in the three months ended in June, U.S. companies brought back roughly $170 billion in overseas profits, according to government report released this week.

That may sound like a lot, but it's far less than the $295 billion firms repatriated in the first quarter. The figure is about 17 percent of the the estimated $2.7 trillion held overseas, funds that have been stockpiled over years by huge companies such as Apple and Pfizer. Keeping profits earned overseas outside the U.S. helps companies cut their U.S. corporate tax bill, but they can't use those funds to invest at home.

The new tax law aimed to address that by using a lower, one-time 15.5 percent tax rate as an incentive to bring the funds back, with the idea that companies will invest in their U.S. operations, add jobs and boost the economy. President Donald Trump advocated for this portion of the law, predicting before the tax bill's passage that a mammoth $4 trillion would be repatriated.

Earlier this week, The Wall Street Journal published an analysis of securities filings from 108 publicly traded companies that hold most of that $2.7 trillion, asking each company how it's using the money. About two-thirds of the $143 billion in public company repatriated funds the Journal identified came from two companies: Cisco Systems and drugmaker Gilead Sciences.

COMMENT:-

It appears that the largest share of the money that was brought into the US was used to create artificial shortages (of stocks) in order to drive up prices (of stocks) which, naturally, drove up the DJIA and made it look like the US economy was doing better than it actually was doing (which wasn't all that bad because its performance was pretty much in line with the trend line of the preceding decade).
​

Click to expand...

...which is exactly why we need even steeper tax cuts--down to 0%, or even negative points--on corporate profits. Then the corporations will bring all that case home. Case solved!

/sarcasm

Seriously, everyone not in the grip of an ideology saw this coming.

MSgt said:

According to the Congressional Budget Office, between 1979 and 2007 incomes of the top 1% of Americans grew by an average of 275%. Hence today's American 1% and our status as having the worst inequality in the world is indeed a product of Reagan-era Trickle-Down economics.

Click to expand...

Good.
But I guarantee you, many lost money, some went bankrupt, and other climbed into that elite group.
Good for them.

No, it's your money. Government gave them this money through loop-holes and tax-cuts whle telling Americans that it would "Trickle-Down." It did not, and instead went to feed the 1%. Businesses are not benevolent. They seek to make money, thus if they do not see a way to make money, it will not trikle-down.

Click to expand...

Government taxes too much. It’s not their job to steal and redistribute.
It’s not government’s job to direct investment or run businesses.
Government’s job is to make laws and when applying the law... be blind.

You’re a real sucker for the Marxist class warfare claptrap.

America has created the greatest, most awesome living standard due to free markets. And when the government gets their idiotic paws in the mix, they **** it up royally.

Show me all the great social redistribution countries. There are none. You realize the Top 5 EU countries, if they were US States would be in the bottom 5 of US States? That’s right... and I have spent half my life in the ****hole called the EU.

And the notion that government caused the misery because it pressured banks to loan to the poor has long been debunked. This was a false narrative, pushed by those who wanted to escape responsibility as they tried to brand themselves as victims, thus deceiving people into thinking that government should deregulate the banks. The real estate bubble was a phenomenon fueled mostly by creditworthy borrowers buying and selling homes they simply thought wouldn’t ever decrease in value.

Click to expand...

ROTFLOL... the US government forced banks to make bad loans en masse, and when it was time, the scheme came crumbling down. It was idiotic Carter and Clinton era decisions that caused the meltdown.

Nicholas Nasim Taleb got ahold of the numbers and was screaming about the impending collapse... nobody listened. He’s an expert on risk, and what he saw was disaster. he was right, and he had the guts to call it.

Warren Buffett stated they had 200 people watching over F&F and they missed it all... (were useless)... and his company has 13.5 people and handle vastly more successfully.

Obama asked what Magic Wand Trump would have? ROTFLOL. Why would the economic failure who pissed away 10 TRILLION... known as Obama say that?

Leftists claimed Trump was nuts to claim he would have over 3% growth. They also claimed... ROTFLOL... that should he win the markets would crash and never recover!!!

TU Curmudgeon said:

The most efficient and productive period for the American economy was during WWII when the US economy was almost totally a "managed economy".

Click to expand...

Well, this was absolutely due to a temporary total-war situation in which the population largely played ball because it was climbing out of a horrible Depression of misery. Prior to this, the U.S., the U.K., and the French messed around with socialists programs during the Great Depression to try to offer reprieve from the misery that unchecked capitalism created while others in Europe completely abandoned democracy and capitalism for Fascism and Communism. The efficient American economy also quickly coincided with the creation of an American-centered banking system in the world (Bretton Wood). And directly after WWII, the U.S. was able to move on quickly because it was territorial untouched by the war and became #1 creditor.

But American efficiency during the War certainly helps to prove that a managed economy is sometimes necessary. The U.S. absolutely supported and encouraged central planning and welfare states across Europe after WWII in order to pick society back up. Europe was a disaster and in so many places the war didn't simply end as most Americans believe. Central planning was necessary to build confidence. This is one of the reasons why communist parties became somewhat popular in Western Europe until the new democratic governments and capitalism (along with Stalin's brutality) gave people confidence.

It's just floors me how people can abandon rationality and default to simplifying issues into their stubborn black/white ideologies in a very grey world.

TU Curmudgeon said:

The most efficient and productive period for the American economy was during WWII when the US economy was almost totally a "managed economy".

Click to expand...

This happened everywhere because of the Great Depression. Then total-War made it necessary as natural resources and economy remained safe from destructive war. The population largely played ball. Efficiency also quickly became attached to the new global American-centered banking system in the world (Bretton Wood). And directly after WWII, the U.S. was able to move on quickly because it was territorial untouched by the war.

But economic efficiency during the War certainly helps to prove that a managed economy is sometimes necessary in order to save economy and way-of-life. The U.S. absolutely supported and encouraged central planning in welfare states across Europe after WWII in order to pick society back up. Europe was a disaster and in so many places the war didn't simply end as most Americans believe. Central planning was necessary to build confidence. This is one of the reasons why communist parties became somewhat popular in Western Europe until the new democratic governments and capitalism gave people confidence. (Stalin's examples of brutality also served to disenchant communists and ruin the Soviet's image as a War victor).

It's just floors me how people can abandon rationality and default to simplifying issues into their stubborn black/white ideologies in a very grey world.

MSgt said:

Well, this was absolutely due to a temporary total-war situation in which the population largely played ball because it was climbing out of a horrible Depression of misery. Prior to this, the U.S., the U.K., and the French messed around with socialists programs during the Great Depression to try to offer reprieve from the misery that unchecked capitalism created while others in Europe completely abandoned democracy and capitalism for Fascism and Communism. The efficient American economy also quickly coincided with the creation of an American-centered banking system in the world (Bretton Wood). And directly after WWII, the U.S. was able to move on quickly because it was territorial untouched by the war and became #1 creditor.

But American efficiency during the War certainly helps to prove that a managed economy is sometimes necessary. The U.S. absolutely supported and encouraged central planning and welfare states across Europe after WWII in order to pick society back up. Europe was a disaster and in so many places the war didn't simply end as most Americans believe. Central planning was necessary to build confidence. This is one of the reasons why communist parties became somewhat popular in Western Europe until the new democratic governments and capitalism (along with Stalin's brutality) gave people confidence.

It's just floors me how people can abandon rationality and default to simplifying issues into their stubborn black/white ideologies in a very grey world.

Click to expand...

Do you think that there is some possibility that that might be because a whole lot of people "think in labels" and actually believe that "The map IS the territory."?

TU Curmudgeon said:

Do you think that there is some possibility that that might be because a whole lot of people "think in labels" and actually believe that "The map IS the territory."?

Click to expand...

There's plenty of reasons.

- In terms of labels, plenty of people don't even understand some of them as they default to using them as denigration and insults. The Cold War, despite kicking off circa 1949-ish, has its roots in the late-nineteenth century when Americans began to understand the brutality and economic crushing behaviors of the tsars (America wanted access to Manchuria). Terms like socialism, communism, and Bolshevism had long been defined purely as the complete opposite of capitalism, freedom, and democracy. Thus, as labels and terms became associated to Lenin, Stalin and Mao, these socioeconomic terms became synonyms for evil. And today, as Americans rage against "socialism" and praise Trump, they ignore what government aid to farmers is, or what natural disaster relief is, or what my military retirement plan is.

- In terms of a map, people have long come to understand the border as a fixed and clean dissection between cultures and societies, despite borders constantly in flux. The U.S. southern border was being established during struggles with the Spanish, the Mexicans, and Native Americans. Carving out whole populations and trapping them on either side of a drawn-in line is exactly what encouraged the assassination of Arch Duke Ferdinand. For that matter, the entire purpose behind the EU's demand for porous borders in the 1990s was (is) to try to ease the tensions that existed between states prior to both World Wars. The settlement of 1922 is what carved up the Middle East (creating one country that actually had no historic reason to exist), which divided like-minded people from each other, while at the same time shoved historical enemies into the same society where future dictators exploited tribal differences. There's the greatest migration disaster in history with the creation of Pakistan, which saw both sides cleanse their populations of either Hindu or Muslim. And of course, with all of our schemes to create borders and to organize civilization, we encourage newer forms of smuggling, thus creating new criminals to burden society and authorities as people exaggerate immigrants as terrorists and criminals who dare to cross an imaginary line.

- But in the end, people are just ignorant and uneducated, leaving themselves open to manipulation and simple thinking. Plenty are innocently ignorant, but plenty also prefer it. It's easier to understand the world when "they" are simply communists, socialists, fascists, evil, Muslims, etc.

TU Curmudgeon said:

From CBS News

Companies aren't rushing to bring home overseas cash
​

When Congress passed the sweeping tax cut legislation late last year, one of its promised benefits was what would surely be a massive amount of repatriation of U.S. corporate profits held overseas for years to avoid the U.S. taxes on those gains. And in the three months ended in June, U.S. companies brought back roughly $170 billion in overseas profits, according to government report released this week.

That may sound like a lot, but it's far less than the $295 billion firms repatriated in the first quarter. The figure is about 17 percent of the the estimated $2.7 trillion held overseas, funds that have been stockpiled over years by huge companies such as Apple and Pfizer. Keeping profits earned overseas outside the U.S. helps companies cut their U.S. corporate tax bill, but they can't use those funds to invest at home.

The new tax law aimed to address that by using a lower, one-time 15.5 percent tax rate as an incentive to bring the funds back, with the idea that companies will invest in their U.S. operations, add jobs and boost the economy. President Donald Trump advocated for this portion of the law, predicting before the tax bill's passage that a mammoth $4 trillion would be repatriated.

Earlier this week, The Wall Street Journal published an analysis of securities filings from 108 publicly traded companies that hold most of that $2.7 trillion, asking each company how it's using the money. About two-thirds of the $143 billion in public company repatriated funds the Journal identified came from two companies: Cisco Systems and drugmaker Gilead Sciences.

COMMENT:-

It appears that the largest share of the money that was brought into the US was used to create artificial shortages (of stocks) in order to drive up prices (of stocks) which, naturally, drove up the DJIA and made it look like the US economy was doing better than it actually was doing (which wasn't all that bad because its performance was pretty much in line with the trend line of the preceding decade).
​

Click to expand...

Thanks for this. I missed it in the news.

The last time Republicans rammed through big tax cuts, under George W. Bush, they were fairly popular. And the party’s leaders seem to have imagined that the same would be true now. “If we can’t sell this to the American people, we ought to go into another line of work,” declared Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, last December.

Have they sent out their job applications? Because the American people aren’t buying. A few weeks ago an internal GOP survey found that “we’ve lost the messaging battle” on the legislation, with voters overwhelmingly believing that the tax cuts went to corporations and the rich, and many worried that increased deficits will endanger Social Security and Medicare.

MTAtech said:

Thanks for this. I missed it in the news.

Click to expand...

My preliminary daily news scan covers UPI, AP, al-Jazeera, BBC, CBC, CBS, CNN, CS Monitor, Der Speigel, FOX News, Global News, Reuters, and NB News.

MTAtech said:

... the American people aren’t buying. A few weeks ago an internal GOP survey found that “we’ve lost the messaging battle” on the legislation, with voters overwhelmingly believing that the tax cuts went to corporations and the rich, and many worried that increased deficits will endanger Social Security and Medicare.

Click to expand...

If the American people are actually starting to believe in reality (i.e. "believing that the tax cuts went to corporations and the rich" [which is what they actually did]), this is a hopeful sign.