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“Trump believes there’s a coup,”

bearpoker said:
If they manage to get Trump through his term intact, they will have saved his presidency. This is hardly a coup attempt.

Whether it is the right thing to do is another issue entirely. I prefer it to Trump pulling out of the trade agreement with South Korea and possibly paving the way for WWIII.
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MSgt said:
Edwin Stanton/Ulysses Grant versus Andrew Johnson.

It does matter. Obviously, these fellow Republicans in the current White House have seen enough to understand that "America" First is not Trump's priority.
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This is simply trying to justify it. Which is a tacit agreement that it's happening.

Whether you think it's for good or ill, it's still attempting to thwart Trump.
 
Fletch said:
Well, there were people in the FBI out to get him. That has been shown. Dont you pay attention to the news? Plus, he isnt demonizing the FBI, he is calling out the corrupt officials at the top. How many times does this have to be explained to you liberals before it sinks in?
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That is just such a stupid comment. In law enforcement they are always out to get criminals, and will always be biased against people they have evidence against that they believe are guilty, get are still building the case.
 
MSgt said:
Edwin Stanton/Ulysses Grant versus Andrew Johnson.

It does matter. Obviously, these fellow Republicans in the current White House have seen enough to understand that "America" First is not Trump's priority.
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You dont know that because you dont know who this person is.
 
Fletch said:
Well, there were people in the FBI out to get him. That has been shown. Dont you pay attention to the news? Plus, he isnt demonizing the FBI, he is calling out the corrupt officials at the top. How many times does this have to be explained to you liberals before it sinks in?
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When there is actual evidence of corruption.
 
GDViking said:
That is just such a stupid comment. In law enforcement they are always out to get criminals, and will always be biased against people they have evidence against that they believe are guilty, get are still building the case.
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There is no evidence against Trump but that didnt stop people at the FBI and Justice from abusing their power. Have you bothered to count how many people in the top ranks of the FBI have been demoted, fired, resigned or are under investigation? No, you havent. You dont know and dont want to know. You want to get Trump, facts be damned. Apparently there were people just like you at the FBI
 
MSgt said:
Babysitting to make sure the baby's diaper doesn't spill out all over the carpet.

There is a reason Trump's behavior is so very much like others of the twentieth century who either damaged and weakened their democracies into hollow shells (for future leaders to finish off) or downright pulled them into dictatorships. He shares many of their inabilities to understand democratic government, shares their inability to cope with criticism, shares their knack for lashing out and using populism to manipulate idiot masses, and shares their frustrations with having to share with political opposition.

Trump is pulling the same thing that they all did and it appears that his fellow Republicans in his Administration appreciate his threat. Thankfully, Grant and Stanton appreciated Andrew Johnson's threat to the integrity of the nation. The same can be argued for Democrats and Republicans who saw Roosevelt's populist threats to the integrity of the nation when they united to oppose certain key issues in legislation. But Trump is more like a drunk driver who is accidentally bumbling about without direction...with embarrassingly explosive diarrhea.
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The above is obfuscation. Thwarting/sabotaging/subverting is not baby-sitting. It's a soft coup.
And it's telling that anyone would think that thwarting, sabotaging, subverting a duly, democratically elected president's agenda is acceptable.
 
Harshaw said:
This is simply trying to justify it. Which is a tacit agreement that it's happening.

Whether you think it's for good or ill, it's still attempting to thwart Trump.
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Well, everything needs justification doesn't it?

And of course it's happening. n our haste to think this is a small effort of a few people, we forget that even his daughter and wife have contradicted him on Twitter on issues just to try to save him from his own moronic behavior. Clearly, Trump's "deep state" is everybody that has to associate with him. He's like a mentally handicapped person who hates his nurses and doctors because they won't let him to do what he wants. After all, who are they to keep back a "stable genius?"
 
Harshaw said:
This is simply trying to justify it. Which is a tacit agreement that it's happening.

Whether you think it's for good or ill, it's still attempting to thwart Trump.
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I'm not justifying anything. The problem is that Trump is an incompetent boob. In an ideal world, this would lead to his removal from office. The world being less than ideal, I'll take what I can get. I don't like it, but Trump and I both benefit.
 
Fletch said:
You dont know that because you dont know who this person is.
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This "person" is apparently a lot of people, of which appear to compliment many who have made public statements in the past.

Even his wife and daughter have had to undermine him to the public to try to save him from his own self. And with Trump scampering around using words like "coup?" Obviously, this is a real thing in the White House. And when was the last time this sort of crap happened?
 
Lesh said:
Senior officials alarmed at the insanity that is the current Presidency
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Irony.
It's insanity to thwart, subvert a duly elected president's agenda.
 
MSgt said:
Well, everything needs justification doesn't it?

And of course it's happening. n our haste to think this is a small effort of a few people, we forget that even his daughter and wife have contradicted him on Twitter on issues just to try to save him from his own moronic behavior. Clearly, Trump's "deep state" is everybody that has to associate with him. He's like a mentally handicapped person who hates his nurses and doctors because they won't let him to do what he wants. After all, who are they to keep back a "stable genius?"
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No, not when the question is whether or not it's happening. Justifications of it do not show that it's not happening.
 
trixare4kids said:
The above is obfuscation. Thwarting/sabotaging/subverting is not baby-sitting. It's a soft coup.
And it's telling that anyone would think that thwarting, sabotaging, subverting a duly, democratically elected president's agenda is acceptable.
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"Soft coup" is a lot like the word "collusion." It sounds legal-y on its face until you look into it and realize it's not a legal term at all. As with "collusion," what's important is whether laws were broken in the process of committing a "soft coup." And just as nobody is going to be convicted for "collusion" (again, not a legal term), neither is anybody going to prison for a "soft coup."
 
bearpoker said:
I'm not justifying anything. The problem is that Trump is an incompetent boob. In an ideal world, this would lead to his removal from office. The world being less than ideal, I'll take what I can get. I don't like it, but Trump and I both benefit.
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This has nothing to do with the factual matter of whether or not people on the inside are trying to thwart him, which is the point in question.
 
bearpoker said:
I'm not justifying anything. The problem is that Trump is an incompetent boob. In an ideal world, this would lead to his removal from office. The world being less than ideal, I'll take what I can get. I don't like it, but Trump and I both benefit.
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Then vote him out... Yes, you are justifying a soft coup. Don't attempt to sugar-coat it.
Just because you and others think he's an incompetent boob doesn't make subverting him okay. What about the people who voted him in office? To hell with what they want, right?

This is the United States, not a third world country.
 
trixare4kids said:
The above is obfuscation. Thwarting/sabotaging/subverting is not baby-sitting. It's a soft coup.
And it's telling that anyone would think that thwarting, sabotaging, subverting a duly, democratically elected president's agenda is acceptable.
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Considering that the last time this sort of activity was undertaken was when Andrew Johnson was actively undermining the interests of the United States, I would argue that were Trump not an absolute piece of ****, this wouldn't be happening now. So, of all our history, why is Trump, an extremist "birther," in this situation?

And the twentieth century is full of "duly elected" presidents who ruined their democracies because those in power did nothing to control the damage. Would you like a list of "duly elected" presidents and officials in the twentieth century who's shallow and/or expressed agenda was to destroy their democracies?
 
trixare4kids said:
Remember the letter that claimed there are senior officials working to subvert, thwart the president's agenda? If not a soft coup, what would you call it?
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I don't recall the letter claiming that 'senior officials' are working to subvert. Whose letter was it and who did it go to?
 
Harshaw said:
No, not when the question is whether or not it's happening. Justifications of it do not show that it's not happening.
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Well, clearly, it is happening. I don't understand your point.

I think what really matters here is what they are trying to undermine within his seemingly confused and largely undefined agenda.
 
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Cardinal said:
"Soft coup" is a lot like the word "collusion." It sounds legal-y on its face until you look into it and realize it's not a legal term at all. As with "collusion," what's important is whether laws were broken in the process of committing a "soft coup." And just as nobody is going to be convicted for "collusion" (again, not a legal term), neither is anybody going to prison for a "soft coup."
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Well thank you schooling us, but what you wrote above hasn't a thing to do with what I opined above.
The subject is whether Trump thinks this is a coup. It is.

ETA: Furthermore, it's telling how some posters think that subverting/thwarting a duly elected president is acceptable.
 
Fletch said:
Well, there were people in the FBI out to get him. That has been shown. Dont you pay attention to the news? Plus, he isnt demonizing the FBI, he is calling out the corrupt officials at the top. How many times does this have to be explained to you liberals before it sinks in?
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I probably pay more attention to political news more than 80% of Americans. And, I pay attention to all of it, both Republican and Democrat opinion and claims. And no, there is no FBI "out to get him" There are however, human beings with opinions that they share in confidence with others and that's normal, nothing unlawful about having an opinion. Not yet anyway, not until Trump makes it illegal.
 
HumblePi said:
I don't recall the letter claiming that 'senior officials' are working to subvert. Whose letter was it and who did it go to?
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Seriously?
Where have you been?
President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.
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For the rest of the NY-OP, https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html
 
HumblePi said:
I probably pay more attention to political news more than 80% of Americans. And, I pay attention to all of it, both Republican and Democrat opinion and claims. And no, there is no FBI "out to get him" There are however, human beings with opinions that they share in confidence with others and that's normal, nothing unlawful about having an opinion. Not yet anyway, not until Trump makes it illegal.
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Unbelievable. :lol:
 
trixare4kids said:
Well thank you schooling us, but what you wrote above hasn't a thing to do with what I opined above.
The subject is whether Trump thinks this is a coup. It is.

ETA: Furthermore, it's telling how some posters think that subverting/thwarting a duly elected president is acceptable.
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You "opined" that it's a "soft coup." Okay, were any laws broken in the process of this soft coup? If so, which ones?
 
Harshaw said:
No, not when the question is whether or not it's happening. Justifications of it do not show that it's not happening.
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What is happening is that some of the president's actions are being thwarted. What is not happening is a coup, either on the part of his own staffers, or on the "deep state", or any other figment of the fevered right wing imagination.
 
MSgt said:
Well, clearly, it is happening. I don't understand your point.
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If you read back in the conversation, you will find that the point of contention was whether or not it was happening.
 
trixare4kids said:
Then vote him out... Yes, you are justifying a soft coup. Don't attempt to sugar-coat it.
Just because you and others think he's an incompetent boob doesn't make subverting him okay. What about the people who voted him in office? To hell with what they want, right?

This is the United States, not a third world country.
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It does if his actions could result in WWIII.
 
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