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Obama gives 'State of our Democracy' speech

Conservative said:
Added context for you but if you are truly in England then you may not understand exactly what was going on in this country
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How does Trump's expanding deficit (will exceed $1 Trillion soon) fit into your analysis of the economy? Obama was improving the economy without increasing the deficit. The truth is a b****, isn't it?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-budget-deficit-swells-898-180000620.html

The U.S. budget deficit widened to $898 billion in the 11 months through August, exceeding the Congressional Budget Office’s forecast for the first full fiscal year under the Trump presidency.

The budget deficit rose by a third in the October to August period from $674 billion in the same timeframe a year earlier, the Treasury Department said in a statement on Thursday. Spending rose by 7 percent to $3.88 trillion, outpacing revenue gains of 1 percent to $2.99 trillion. Revenue from corporations fell to $163 billion, down by $71 billion from a year ago.
 
Media_Truth said:
How does Trump's expanding deficit (will exceed $1 Trillion soon) fit into your analysis of the economy? Obama was improving the economy without increasing the deficit. The truth is a b****, isn't it?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-budget-deficit-swells-898-180000620.html

The U.S. budget deficit widened to $898 billion in the 11 months through August, exceeding the Congressional Budget Office’s forecast for the first full fiscal year under the Trump presidency.

The budget deficit rose by a third in the October to August period from $674 billion in the same timeframe a year earlier, the Treasury Department said in a statement on Thursday. Spending rose by 7 percent to $3.88 trillion, outpacing revenue gains of 1 percent to $2.99 trillion. Revenue from corporations fell to $163 billion, down by $71 billion from a year ago.
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It fits in quite well with what Trump can control, 500 billion of this year's debt had absolutely nothing to do with Trump, the mandatory increases in social entitlement programs add more to the debt, Trump's cutting of the executive branch budget and creation of over 4 million new taxpayers which continue to grow tax revenue generates a return on that investment. Blaming Trump for the Debt is what you leftists always do but never put that debt into context

I have posted the debt service on the debt over and over again and higher interest rates are what is pushing that debt service up. I suggest you pay attention to the actual budget Trump proposed but since you are so concerned now about the debt why wasn't that an issue with 4 straight years of Obama trillion dollar deficits and the 9.3 trillion Obama added to the debt?

Seems like most liberals you have no idea what you are talking about with the budget and never post data in context. For some reason you continue to supporting giving more tax dollars to the federal bureaucrats who abuse the revenue at every opportunity to buy votes and keep employed. That is illogical but typical liberalism that accepts the words of the media and radical left that the bureaucrats need the money more than you and your family. Fact Trump has cut what he controls, generated more than enough revenue to fund his priorities but the Congress on both sides of the aisle continue to spend the money so unless you can show me where the Trump spending and not Congressional spending caused the deficits you are out of touch with reality and that is very likely
 
Media_Truth said:
The truth is a b****, isn't it?
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These days it seems "the truth" is whatever the Trump says it is. A flimflam man defining the truth, can you say "easy mark?"
 
Conservative said:
It fits in quite well with what Trump can control, 500 billion of this year's debt had absolutely nothing to do with Trump, the mandatory increases in social entitlement programs add more to the debt, Trump's cutting of the executive branch budget and creation of over 4 million new taxpayers which continue to grow tax revenue generates a return on that investment. Blaming Trump for the Debt is what you leftists always do but never put that debt into context

I have posted the debt service on the debt over and over again and higher interest rates are what is pushing that debt service up. I suggest you pay attention to the actual budget Trump proposed but since you are so concerned now about the debt why wasn't that an issue with 4 straight years of Obama trillion dollar deficits and the 9.3 trillion Obama added to the debt?

Seems like most liberals you have no idea what you are talking about with the budget and never post data in context. For some reason you continue to supporting giving more tax dollars to the federal bureaucrats who abuse the revenue at every opportunity to buy votes and keep employed. That is illogical but typical liberalism that accepts the words of the media and radical left that the bureaucrats need the money more than you and your family. Fact Trump has cut what he controls, generated more than enough revenue to fund his priorities but the Congress on both sides of the aisle continue to spend the money so unless you can show me where the Trump spending and not Congressional spending caused the deficits you are out of touch with reality and that is very likely
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How convenient that you disregard the fact that Congress is also controlled by Republicans. A while back, in another thread, you mentioned that the Trump deficit would not exceed $1 Trillion. Almost there!!! Are you going to change your name to LIBERAL when it gets there???
 
Media_Truth said:
How convenient that you disregard the fact that Congress is also controlled by Republicans. A while back, in another thread, you mentioned that the Trump deficit would not exceed $1 Trillion. Almost there!!! Are you going to change your name to LIBERAL when it gets there???
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And how convenient it is for you to ignore that Congress was under GOP Control when the deficits you tout were reduced from the trillion dollars per year prior. Seems you want to blame Bush for the Obama deficits but then blame Trump for the Obama deficits and the 500 billion in debt service. Do you understand what debt service is and where it came from? Blame is easy for you, taking responsibility never is and it is obvious you ignore that Trump has actually cut the expenses he is responsible for, executive branch of the govt. and certainly not the 500 billion in debt service. You ever going to address the debt service??

As stated, you are nothing but a true partisan totally out of touch with reality and always blaming a Republican for every problem this country faces totally ignoring your parties actions
 
Conservative said:
And how convenient it is for you to ignore that Congress was under GOP Control when the deficits you tout were reduced from the trillion dollars per year prior. Seems you want to blame Bush for the Obama deficits but then blame Trump for the Obama deficits and the 500 billion in debt service. Do you understand what debt service is and where it came from? Blame is easy for you, taking responsibility never is and it is obvious you ignore that Trump has actually cut the expenses he is responsible for, executive branch of the govt. and certainly not the 500 billion in debt service. You ever going to address the debt service??

As stated, you are nothing but a true partisan totally out of touch with reality and always blaming a Republican for every problem this country faces totally ignoring your parties actions
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Trump and the Republicans continue to build huge deficits. They control all 3 Legislative branches. They aren't even able to balance a spending budget, much less tackle the deficit. This deficit is quickly heading towards $1 Trillion. You said it wouldn't reach that. You didn't answer the question - will you change your name to LIBERAL when it exceeds $1 Trillion?
 
Media_Truth said:
Trump and the Republicans continue to build huge deficits. They control all 3 Legislative branches. They aren't even able to balance a spending budget, much less tackle the deficit. This deficit is quickly heading towards $1 Trillion. You said it wouldn't reach that. You didn't answer the question - will you change your name to LIBERAL when it exceeds $1 Trillion?
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Right and Obama's 9.3 trillion added to the debt plays no role in the debt service we have today. Your total and complete ignorance of the budget line items or understanding as to the role of the Federal govt. is staggering.

Deficit heading towards a trillion dollars? Really? Didn't we hit trillion dollar deficits in 2009-2010-2011-2012? Where was your outrage? I will change my alias to liberal when you explain how Trump is responsible for the debt service of 500 billion dollars and show me treasury data showing FIT revenue dropping AFTER the tax cuts?
 
Conservative said:
Right and Obama's 9.3 trillion added to the debt plays no role in the debt service we have today. Your total and complete ignorance of the budget line items or understanding as to the role of the Federal govt. is staggering.

Deficit heading towards a trillion dollars? Really? Didn't we hit trillion dollar deficits in 2009-2010-2011-2012? Where was your outrage? I will change my alias to liberal when you explain how Trump is responsible for the debt service of 500 billion dollars and show me treasury data showing FIT revenue dropping AFTER the tax cuts?
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That wasn't Obama's debt. That was GW Bush's debt - the worst hand-off since the Great Depression. Considering how clueless Trump is, GW Bush was even worse. You copped out on your claim that the Trump deficit wouldn't exceed $1 Trillion. Now it's happening, and you're shifting your tainted rhetoric.
 
Media_Truth said:
That wasn't Obama's debt. That was GW Bush's debt - the worst hand-off since the Great Depression. Considering how clueless Trump is, GW Bush was even worse. You copped out on your claim that the Trump deficit wouldn't exceed $1 Trillion. Now it's happening, and you're shifting your tainted rhetoric.
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You may be one of the most poorly informed individuals in this forum. Obama had a Democratic Congress controlling the legislative process and purse strings his first two years in office and control of the Senate until 2015 so how is this Bush's responsibility. Do you understand the budget process? Do you understand the stimulus he signed in 2009? What is it about liberalism that creates people like you who are so bullheaded and indoctrinated that actual data is totally ignored.

I state facts, back up the facts, with data, you have done no such thing.
 
Conservative said:
You may be one of the most poorly informed individuals in this forum. Obama had a Democratic Congress controlling the legislative process and purse strings his first two years in office and control of the Senate until 2015 so how is this Bush's responsibility. Do you understand the budget process? Do you understand the stimulus he signed in 2009? What is it about liberalism that creates people like you who are so bullheaded and indoctrinated that actual data is totally ignored.

I state facts, back up the facts, with data, you have done no such thing.
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Well slightly better informed economists from every economic school of thought suggested and continue to hold that without massive stimulus spending, qualitative easing, and other government interventions into the market during the great recession, this country might have actually fallen into a depression. Some suggest today that Obama and the Fed didn't go far enough in the first two years.

As an aside, Bush/the Bush administration's policies weren't the chief factors that drove us into recession either. These things are years in the making and the result of a lot of factors with a lot of players involved--including average voters and consumers. The credit/blame that presidents get for the economy is enduring evidence of how many "poorly informed individuals" we have voting in this country.

But I'm no economist.
 
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LincolnRossiter said:
Well slightly better informed economists from every economic school of thought suggested and continue to hold that without massive stimulus spending, qualitative easing, and other government interventions into the market during the great recession, this country might have actually fallen into a depression. Some suggest today that Obama and the Fed didn't go far enough in the first two years.

As an aside, Bush/the Bush administration's policies weren't the chief factors that drove us into recession either. These things are years in the making and the result of a lot of factors with a lot of players involved--including average voters and consumers. The credit/blame that presidents get for the economy is enduring evidence of how many "poorly informed individuals" we have voting in this country.

But I'm no economist.
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Why do you people always buy what economists say while ignoring actual data? Obama went far enough but bailed out public sector employees who weren't threatened rather than promoting the private sector with his stimulus and his tax cuts came with strings such as cash for clunkers. Bailing out teachers unions did nothing to create the jobs promised and took away responsibility from the states. Keynesian spending during a severe recession needed to incentivize the private sector, not public sector.

I do agree with you however regarding the recession and causes which have been debated here over and over again with solely partisan arguments on both sides. there were a lot to blame but it is easy for people to blame the current information on a bubble that started in the late 90's. Bush saw the bubble burst but didn't create it.
 
Conservative said:
Why do you people always buy what economists say while ignoring actual data? Obama went far enough but bailed out public sector employees who weren't threatened rather than promoting the private sector with his stimulus and his tax cuts came with strings such as cash for clunkers. Bailing out teachers unions did nothing to create the jobs promised and took away responsibility from the states. Keynesian spending during a severe recession needed to incentivize the private sector, not public sector.
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That's an oversimplification and pretty much partisan talking points. Here's a look at a Hoover Institute short paper that explains some of the issues that led to the stimulus' ultimate failure better than I can. http://media.hoover.org/sites/default/files/documents/Where-Did-Stimulus-Go-Commentary-1-2011.pdf
 
Conservative said:
You may be one of the most poorly informed individuals in this forum. Obama had a Democratic Congress controlling the legislative process and purse strings his first two years in office and control of the Senate until 2015 so how is this Bush's responsibility. Do you understand the budget process? Do you understand the stimulus he signed in 2009? What is it about liberalism that creates people like you who are so bullheaded and indoctrinated that actual data is totally ignored.

I state facts, back up the facts, with data, you have done no such thing.
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You're one of those pathetic Right-Wingers who likes to talk louder than everybody else. Likes to use expletives such as "most poorly informed". You are nothing but a whiner and complainer. One who refuses to look at facts, and then uses his own weaknesses as ammunition against other. Quite pathetic really! I saw an entire Conservative Forum that you could join. And there everybody will be in agreement with your lies.
 
LincolnRossiter said:
Well slightly better informed economists from every economic school of thought suggested and continue to hold that without massive stimulus spending, qualitative easing, and other government interventions into the market during the great recession, this country might have actually fallen into a depression. Some suggest today that Obama and the Fed didn't go far enough in the first two years.

As an aside, Bush/the Bush administration's policies weren't the chief factors that drove us into recession either. These things are years in the making and the result of a lot of factors with a lot of players involved--including average voters and consumers. The credit/blame that presidents get for the economy is enduring evidence of how many "poorly informed individuals" we have voting in this country.

But I'm no economist.
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A presidential administration has to be astutely aware of what is happening under his watch. When the CEOs of America started ripping off their shareholders, The Bush Admin said, "What's this?".

Then the banks started playing hedge bets, and a banking/housing crisis ensued. Bush = "What's this?"

Then the American auto industry started going bankrupt. Bush - "Didn't see that coming!"

Then the stock market started dropping like a rock - 100% and more. - Bush - "What's wrong with these investors?"

Then the Bush boys decide to start an Oil War. "Let's tell Americans that Iraq has WMDs".

Then the deficit starts skyrocketing. Bush - "Not my fault".

Bush - "All yours, Obama"!
 
Media_Truth said:
A presidential administration has to be astutely aware of what is happening under his watch. When the CEOs of America started ripping off their shareholders, The Bush Admin said, "What's this?".

Then the banks started playing hedge bets, and a banking/housing crisis ensued. Bush = "What's this?"

Then the American auto industry started going bankrupt. Bush - "Didn't see that coming!"

Then the stock market started dropping like a rock - 100% and more. - Bush - "What's wrong with these investors?"

Then the Bush boys decide to start an Oil War. "Let's tell Americans that Iraq has WMDs".

Then the deficit starts skyrocketing. Bush - "Not my fault".

Bush - "All yours, Obama"!
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I was alive in 2008, and none of that was so clean cut. The first stimulus happened under Bush, and the stock market didn't start to crater until October. I don't hold the Bush admin harmless, but the president and the federal government as a whole don't have nearly the control over the economy that American voters think. We don't have a capitalistic command economy like China. I think that's kind of the point of our system. Yet presidents get blamed and praised for decisions made by corporations, banks, other private entities, and millions of consumers within a national and global economic cycle as though they're sitting there with their hands on some lever.

It's ridiculous. Government policy can undoubtedly impact the economy, but it's not the main game in town.
 
Media_Truth said:
You're one of those pathetic Right-Wingers who likes to talk louder than everybody else. Likes to use expletives such as "most poorly informed". You are nothing but a whiner and complainer. One who refuses to look at facts, and then uses his own weaknesses as ammunition against other. Quite pathetic really! I saw an entire Conservative Forum that you could join. And there everybody will be in agreement with your lies.
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The guy lives in a fly over state where all the media they get is Fox News and Limbaugh......trump's uneducated base
 
LincolnRossiter said:
I was alive in 2008, and none of that was so clean cut. The first stimulus happened under Bush, and the stock market didn't start to crater until October. I don't hold the Bush admin harmless, but the president and the federal government as a whole don't have nearly the control over the economy that American voters think. We don't have a capitalistic command economy like China. I think that's kind of the point of our system. Yet presidents get blamed and praised for decisions made by corporations, banks, other private entities, and millions of consumers within a national and global economic cycle as though they're sitting there with their hands on some lever.

It's ridiculous. Government policy can undoubtedly impact the economy, but it's not the main game in town.
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Strange how it was all straightened out within 2 years, with Obama. Have you studied up on the Two Santa Claus Political Philosophy? It's in play right now.
 
Media_Truth said:
You're one of those pathetic Right-Wingers who likes to talk louder than everybody else. Likes to use expletives such as "most poorly informed". You are nothing but a whiner and complainer. One who refuses to look at facts, and then uses his own weaknesses as ammunition against other. Quite pathetic really! I saw an entire Conservative Forum that you could join. And there everybody will be in agreement with your lies.
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Whiner and complainer? LOL, I celebrate successes, don't care what others make or pay in taxes, and understand completely the budget of the U.S. Suggest you take a civics and economics class and learn how to admit when wrong. My lies? Again, you don't have a clue and never respond with data. It is easy to refute you as the data is readily available. What is it about liberalism that creates your kind of loyalty?
 
LincolnRossiter said:
That's an oversimplification and pretty much partisan talking points. Here's a look at a Hoover Institute short paper that explains some of the issues that led to the stimulus' ultimate failure better than I can. http://media.hoover.org/sites/default/files/documents/Where-Did-Stimulus-Go-Commentary-1-2011.pdf
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Thanks for posting, a lot of good information in that article much of it confirms that the stimulus was poorly focused and only provided temporary benefits to the American consumer. As your GDP shows the largest component is consumer spending and what the stimulus did was not promote that at all because it never created as promised the shovel ready jobs as bls.gov. shows. What it did was bail out Democratic constituent groups like the teachers unions thus supposedly saving jobs but no verifiable source proves that. Teachers are state and local responsibilities not federal.

Keynesian economic policies work during a recession if focused in the right area, the private sector. Obama and his administration never understood the private sector which is why we had the very poor results from his economic policies. Compare these results to Reagans and most will see the difference in Keynesian spending, Reagan on the private sector with tax rate cuts and private sector spending, Obama with spending in the public sector and tax cuts with strings, do this and you will get that! without a job the people couldn't participate and no rebate is a true tax cut

Table 1.1.1. Percent Change From Preceding Period in Real Gross Domestic Product
[Percent]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: July 27, 2018 - Next Release Date August 29, 2018

Line 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016
Line
1 Gross domestic product -0.1 -2.5 2.6 1.6 2.2 1.8 2.5 2.9 1.6


Table 1.1.1. Percent Change From Preceding Period in Real Gross Domestic Product
[Percent]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: July 27, 2018 - Next Release Date August 29, 2018

Line 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988
Line
1 Gross domestic product -0.3 2.5 -1.8 4.6 7.2 4.2 3.5 3.5 4.2
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Media_Truth said:
You're one of those pathetic Right-Wingers who likes to talk louder than everybody else. Likes to use expletives such as "most poorly informed". You are nothing but a whiner and complainer. One who refuses to look at facts, and then uses his own weaknesses as ammunition against other. Quite pathetic really! I saw an entire Conservative Forum that you could join. And there everybody will be in agreement with your lies.
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Pathetic why, because I provide links and verifiable data that makes you look foolish? Pathetic because I confuse you with facts, logic, and common sense? Facts because I refute your biased, partisan talking points and do so with basic civics, economics, and accounting principles?
 
Media_Truth said:
Strange how it was all straightened out within 2 years, with Obama. Have you studied up on the Two Santa Claus Political Philosophy? It's in play right now.
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To an earlier point I made, the Obama admin took steps to stabilize the economy and ensure that credit markets didn’t freeze up. But as the author of the short paper I posted pointed out, everything didn’t straighten right out. Businesses and individuals used much of the stimulus designed to juice the economy and essentially sat on it—either saving it away or paying down existing debt. They didn’t have faith that a robust recovery was underway. Which, somewhat ironically, slowed the recovery. Just one example of how the governnment’s power is limited in an economy with millions of decision-makers.

And I’ve always found the Two Santa Claus Theory compelling. It’ll hold right up until the interest on the national debt surpasses social security and Medicare as the largest outlay in the budget.
 
LincolnRossiter said:
To an earlier point I made, the Obama admin took steps to stabilize the economy and ensure that credit markets didn’t freeze up. But as the author of the short paper I posted pointed out, everything didn’t straighten right out. Businesses and individuals used much of the stimulus designed to juice the economy and essentially sat on it—either saving it away or paying down existing debt. They didn’t have faith that a robust recovery was underway. Which, somewhat ironically, slowed the recovery. Just one example of how the governnment’s power is limited in an economy with millions of decision-makers.

And I’ve always found the Two Santa Claus Theory compelling. It’ll hold right up until the interest on the national debt surpasses social security and Medicare as the largest outlay in the budget.
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Yeah, before this last tax cut, I said, "Balance the budget first, then cut taxes". If we managed our businesses and homes like this Administration does, we'd be bankrupt. It's immoral to shove this down the throats of our future generations. And you now hear nothing about the deficit on FAUX NEWS.
 
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