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U.S. is denying passports to Americans along the border, throwing their citizenship into question

JANFU

JANFU

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...able-main_mexpassports-5pm:homepage/story-ans

In some cases, passport applicants with official U.S. birth certificates are being jailed in immigration detention centers and entered into deportation proceedings. In others, they are stuck in Mexico, their passports suddenly revoked when they tried to reenter the United States. As the Trump administration attempts to reduce both legal and illegal immigration, the government’s treatment of passport applicants in South Texas shows how U.S. citizens are increasingly being swept up by immigration enforcement agencies.

His passport was taken from him, and Customs and Border Protection agents told him to admit that he was born in Mexico, according to documents later filed in federal court. He refused and was sent to the Los Fresnos Detention Center and entered into deportation proceedings.

He was released three days later, but the government scheduled a deportation hearing for him in 2019. His passport, which had been issued in 2008, was revoked.
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Anyone have the feeling this will turn into another mess such as separating families at the border?
 
biglawnmower said:
why was separating the families at the border a mess? the parents smuggled their poor children here illegally and are not fit for parenthood.

we must do what we can to protect real americans
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I used that as an example of a preventable mess. Now try to stay with the OP and link. Thank you
Point - do you remember being born?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...able-main_mexpassports-5pm:homepage/story-ans


For now, passport applicants who are able to afford the legal costs are suing the federal government over their passport denials. Eventually, the applicants typically win those cases, after government attorneys raise a series of sometimes bizarre questions about their birth.

“For a while, we had attorneys asking the same question: ‘Do you remember when you were born?’ ” Diez said. “I had to promise my clients that it wasn’t a trick question.”
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JANFU said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...able-main_mexpassports-5pm:homepage/story-ans


Anyone have the feeling this will turn into another mess such as separating families at the border?
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Interesting...

Another case of a program that began under President Obama and is only the epitome of evil now that it is Trump in the comfy chair. (hyperbole for effect)

Yeah, I know. You have to read further in the article to see why it was done. Fraudulent documentation....

So was it evil of Obama to do it? If not why is it evil now?

And what to do with those fraudulently in the US?

My take? If they have served honorably, have kept their noses clean, have been good people then formal amnesty.... They were babies who had no control over what their parents did.
 
Fledermaus said:
Interesting...

Another case of a program that began under President Obama and is only the epitome of evil now that it is Trump in the comfy chair. (hyperbole for effect)

Yeah, I know. You have to read further in the article to see why it was done. Fraudulent documentation....

So was it evil of Obama to do it? If not why is it evil now?

And what to do with those fraudulently in the US?

My take? If they have served honorably, have kept their noses clean, have been good people then formal amnesty.... They were babies who had no control over what their parents did.
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Horse pucky. Did not begin under Obama, lets be honest here and you can retract that portion
Link from the link

https://www.aclu.org/news/state-department-agrees-fair-issuance-passports-mexican-americans
McALLEN, TX –The U.S. Department of State (DOS) has agreed to implement new procedures designed to ensure the fair and prompt review of U.S. passport applications by Mexican Americans whose births in Texas were attended by midwives. Under the agreement, no eligible applicant should be denied a passport.

The procedural changes are the result of a settlement agreement following a class action lawsuit filed by a coalition of civil rights and legal organizations including the American Civil Liberties Union, the ACLU of Texas, the international law firm Hogan & Hartson LLP, and Refugio del Rio Grande, Inc.
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Fledermaus said:
Interesting...

Another case of a program that began under President Obama and is only the epitome of evil now that it is Trump in the comfy chair. (hyperbole for effect)

Yeah, I know. You have to read further in the article to see why it was done. Fraudulent documentation....

So was it evil of Obama to do it? If not why is it evil now?

And what to do with those fraudulently in the US?

My take? If they have served honorably, have kept their noses clean, have been good people then formal amnesty.... They were babies who had no control over what their parents did.
Click to expand...

Which only encourages more illegal immigration.
 
I don't think their citizenship is being thrown into question, however, it most likely has something to do with a law that was passed in 2015.


"At least 362,000 Americans with overdue tax debts will be denied new or renewed passports if they don’t settle these debts, the Internal Revenue Service says.

Recently IRS officials have provided new details on the enforcement of a law Congress passed in late 2015. It requires the IRS and State Department to deny passports or revoke them for taxpayers who have more than $51,000 of overdue tax debt. Enforcement began in February. ..."


https://www.wsj.com/articles/thousa...a-passport-because-of-unpaid-taxes-1530869401


The Washington ComPost ... :lol:
 
Beaudreaux said:
That's outrageous. A US citizen that can prove citizenship must have their 4th through 8th Amendment and 14th Amendment Rights preserved. The DHS OIG needs to get this fixed, now.
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1 Dr that was under investigation delivered over 15,000 babies. This will turn out to be a freaking mess.
The Dr passed away a number of years back.
Guess the Govt could always subpoena the body, as they appear to ask really daft questions, along the lines of do you remember being born.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...able-main_mexpassports-5pm:homepage/story-ans
“For a while, we had attorneys asking the same question: ‘Do you remember when you were born?’ ” Diez said. “I had to promise my clients that it wasn’t a trick question.”
Click to expand...
 
Beaudreaux said:
That's outrageous. A US citizen that can prove citizenship must have their 4th through 8th Amendment and 14th Amendment Rights preserved. The DHS OIG needs to get this fixed, now.
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If you didn't pay your taxes to Uncle Sam, no passport for you!
 
Renae said:
Which only encourages more illegal immigration.
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Gawd, I would love to see your browser history.............:shock:
 
Barnacle said:
I don't think their citizenship is being thrown into question, however, it most likely has something to do with a law that was passed in 2015.


"At least 362,000 Americans with overdue tax debts will be denied new or renewed passports if they don’t settle these debts, the Internal Revenue Service says.

Recently IRS officials have provided new details on the enforcement of a law Congress passed in late 2015. It requires the IRS and State Department to deny passports or revoke them for taxpayers who have more than $51,000 of overdue tax debt. Enforcement began in February. ..."


https://www.wsj.com/articles/thousa...a-passport-because-of-unpaid-taxes-1530869401


The Washington ComPost ... :lol:
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Pls read the link. I think does not work.
 
Rexedgar said:
Gawd, I would love to see your browser history.............:shock:
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I was referring to his comment about amnesty for children born or brought here at a young age.
 
Renae said:
Do you recall me making that claim? Go bug that person.
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No, you liked the post. What was it that you liked?
Time to woman up.
Fledermaus said:
Interesting...

Another case of a program that began under President Obama and is only the epitome of evil now that it is Trump in the comfy chair. (hyperbole for effect)

Yeah, I know. You have to read further in the article to see why it was done. Fraudulent documentation....

So was it evil of Obama to do it? If not why is it evil now?

And what to do with those fraudulently in the US?

My take? If they have served honorably, have kept their noses clean, have been good people then formal amnesty.... They were babies who had no control over what their parents did.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
JANFU said:
1 Dr that was under investigation delivered over 15,000 babies. This will turn out to be a freaking mess.
The Dr passed away a number of years back.
Guess the Govt could always subpoena the body, as they appear to ask really daft questions, along the lines of do you remember being born.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...able-main_mexpassports-5pm:homepage/story-ans
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It may be the catalyst that changes the 14th Amendment from being born on US soil equals instant citizenship, to something more realistic in modern times. However, in the mean time, anyone that has a legitimate US birth certificate with an official government seal on it from the local courthouse, is a US citizen - period. If the feds can find evidence of fraud in birth certifications, then you're correct, it will be a freaking mess.
 
Beaudreaux said:
It may be the catalyst that changes the 14th Amendment from being born on US soil equals instant citizenship, to something more realistic in modern times. However, in the mean time, anyone that has a legitimate US birth certificate with an official government seal on it from the local courthouse, is a US citizen - period. If the feds can find evidence of fraud in birth certifications, then you're correct, it will be a freaking mess.
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And oddly enough it was a Chinese person born in the US that went to SCOTUS to clarify the 14nth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark

United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898),[1] is a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled 6–2 that a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese nationality who at the time had a permanent domicile and residence in the United States and were carrying on business there but not as employees of the Chinese government, automatically became a U.S. citizen.[2] This decision established an important precedent in its interpretation of the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution.

Wong Kim Ark, who was born in San Francisco in 1873, to Chinese parents who were legally domiciled and resident there at the time and not employed by the Chinese government, had been denied re-entry to the United States after a trip abroad, under a law restricting Chinese immigration and prohibiting immigrants from China from becoming naturalized U.S. citizens. He challenged the government's refusal to recognize his citizenship, and the Supreme Court ruled in his favor, holding that the citizenship language in the Fourteenth Amendment encompassed the circumstances of his birth.
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Barnacle said:
If you didn't pay your taxes to Uncle Sam, no passport for you!
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To leave the country? Sure. But to get back in? If you're a US citizen, and can prove it, you can enter the US at any time. Now, you may end up with an outstanding warrant for your arrest when you get back in for not paying taxes, or whatever it may be, but the US government cannot prevent a US citizen from crossing the border to come BACK INTO the country. Not without going through the processes required to rpeserve the citizens rights that I listed in the post you quoted. Right now, from what I read, that isn't happening.
 
Beaudreaux said:
It may be the catalyst that changes the 14th Amendment from being born on US soil equals instant citizenship, to something more realistic in modern times. However, in the mean time, anyone that has a legitimate US birth certificate with an official government seal on it from the local courthouse, is a US citizen - period. If the feds can find evidence of fraud in birth certifications, then you're correct, it will be a freaking mess.
Click to expand...

Look at the replies of Trump supporters ...... To Hell with the Constitution and citizen rights. If they're not white, screw em.
 
JANFU said:
And oddly enough it was a Chinese person born in the US that went to SCOTUS to clarify the 14nth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark
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Yep. The framers of the 14th were attempting to create a clear and undeniable claim to US citizenship for any freed former slave that was born in the US (which was most of them by the time the 14th was ratified). That case you cited made a lot of them rethink what they had done, but by that time the members of Congress had changed, and the country was just beginning to actually heal from the Civil War, and no one wanted to fight the fight to change the 14th. There was already a fight with Jim Crow laws being upheld by the SCOTUS just two years before with Plessy v. Ferguson, 163 U.S. 537 (1896). There was no way anyone was going to take the chance of opening up the entire 14th Amendment to re-writing at that point in time, because it would potentially not survive at all.

Now is the time to rethink the portion of the 14th granting automatic citizenship to anyone born here.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Look at the replies of Trump supporters ...... To Hell with the Constitution and citizen rights. If they're not white, screw em.
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I haven't read other people's posts in this thread, other than the ones that quoted me. I can only support my position that has never changed, that all US citizens' rights are protected by the US Constitution, and protected equally by the same 14th Amendment through the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses.
 
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