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Manafort juror reveals lone holdout prevented Mueller team from convicting on all counts

I may never understand why some people seem to think it makes for convincing argument to preface a lie about what another person said starting with "So you...".

Wait a second. Isn't that how you address your wife when she accuses you of anything? Heck, I certainly do. My life can depend on that opening. :) Especially when I wasn't there, don't know what she is talking about, and I know she's lying, picking a fight to cover something she did.

I've got some doubts about you now. :lamo
 
To be exact, Manafort believes he will be pardoned, and for all practical purposes that's the same thing since this has given him the resolve to not talk to investigators.

Where can I get a crystal ball like yours?
 
Where can I get a crystal ball like yours?

Well, I suppose you can follow all the public announcements by Trump that Manafort is a good guy who's been treated unfairly and that he wants to pardon him. That would be a good place to start, in my opinion.
 
Beat by whom?

Seriously?...Manafort has a lot enemies...He is counting trump to pardon him...Which is strange because trump says he hardly knows him...What a bunch of sleazebags these people are
 
Well, I suppose you can follow all the public announcements by Trump that Manafort is a good guy who's been treated unfairly and that he wants to pardon him. That would be a good place to start, in my opinion.

That does not answer my question. Where do I get a crystal ball like yours?
 
trump is going to pardon him. sorry to be such a downer.

I don't think he can pardon Manafort. I mean I know he has the Presidential authority to do it. I just don't believe that he has the political capital to do it. After a week like this one I think the cracks on the President's support are starting show. A pardon for Manafort at this point is likely a political bridge too far and i think that even he senses that.

So I think these rosy compliments Trump has been paying to Manafort. Saying that he's a good man and how he admires his 'bravery' for not flipping like Cohen. Even though you can bet that if it was President Bonespurs's ass that was in the sling that he would be singing like a canary for all he's worth the first chance he gets just to save his own wretched ass from going to the pen. It's all really meant to string Manafort along in hope of receiving a pardon that isn't going to come. So that Manafort will remain quiet without Trump ever having to take the potentially existential political risk of actually giving him one

Trump demands loyalty but he doesn't give any loyalty in return. Hopefully Manafort isn't dumb enough believe that he will be the exception in that respect and will instead look to take care of himself. Because that's exactly what Trump would do and is going to do.
 
That does not answer my question. Where do I get a crystal ball like yours?

I answered it directly. That you didn't understand it is typical and not important to me.
 
I answered it directly. That you didn't understand it is typical and not important to me.

Wiggle, wiggle, squirm, squirm. You didn't answer anything.

If it weren't important to you, you wouldn't have responded with another post. :)
 
I don't think he can pardon Manafort. I mean I know he has the Presidential authority to do it. I just don't believe that he has the political capital to do it. After a week like this one I think the cracks on the President's support are starting show. A pardon for Manafort at this point is likely a political bridge too far and i think that even he senses that.

So I think these rosy compliments Trump has been paying to Manafort. Saying that he's a good man and how he admires his 'bravery' for not flipping like Cohen. Even though you can bet that if it was President Bonespurs's ass that was in the sling that he would be singing like a canary for all he's worth the first chance he gets just to save his own wretched ass from going to the pen. It's all really meant to string Manafort along in hope of receiving a pardon that isn't going to come. So that Manafort will remain quiet without Trump ever having to take the potentially existential political risk of actually giving him one

Trump demands loyalty but he doesn't give any loyalty in return. Hopefully Manafort isn't dumb enough believe that he will be the exception in that respect and will instead look to take care of himself. Because that's exactly what Trump would do and is going to do.

trump still will pardon Manafort, in my opinion. trump will choose self-preservation over his political career.
 
Balogna. Mueller had nothing to do with it. The publicity rattled prison officials. That's all. Mueller has no say for anyone's imprisonment, all he can do is make a recommendation after the sentencing hearing.



Yes. Assumptions are the mother of all…

I can’t get into a WAPO site because I’m not a member. So, I interpreted the info given under the search engine link to mean what I posted. I assumed the headline meant because of what “prosecutors say” that “Manafort to be moved”:

Paul Manafort to be moved from jail where prosecutors say ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/paul-manafort...
Prosecutors said in a court filing Wednesday that in recent jailhouse phone calls, Manafort has told people he is being treated like a “VIP” in the Northern Neck jail, where he has his own phone and computer, writes emails and does not have to wear a uniform.

Thanks for the correction.
 
Yes. Assumptions are the mother of all…

I can’t get into a WAPO site because I’m not a member. So, I interpreted the info given under the search engine link to mean what I posted. I assumed the headline meant because of what “prosecutors say” that “Manafort to be moved”:

Paul Manafort to be moved from jail where prosecutors say ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/paul-manafort...
Prosecutors said in a court filing Wednesday that in recent jailhouse phone calls, Manafort has told people he is being treated like a “VIP” in the Northern Neck jail, where he has his own phone and computer, writes emails and does not have to wear a uniform.

Thanks for the correction.

One thing to keep in mind, when gov't is involved, those in control of situations don't want public credit, and those not in control do want public credit for being in control. Both owe others something(s).

All "journalists" working political stories have debts to information sources, especially those in government or quasi government positions. A word said can easily grow to mean much than what it truly means.

Thanks for being honest, a rarity.
 
With neither case the phrase wasn't used in judge's instructions to the juries. Prosecutorial statements often include irrelevant statements that wouldn't be countered during other aspects of a trial. I rarely pay attention to summations, they don't accomplish much. The case has been already made or not. Most cases are rather mundane, open and shut, jockeying between prosecutors and defense attorneys for the most/least punishment for the guilty. TKO's by technicalities. A working judge told me he recently sat through hours of argument by a young DA and a young defense atty over whether or not the jury could see a gun register. Both reiterated their arguments in closing statements. The judge couldn't determine why it was an issue, the weapon in question had been reported stolen more than 12 years previously. After the trial he learned the defense atty thought the register was a ballistics report, and so did the ADA. There was no ballistics report, the round used had shattered.

I'm a former gold shield with 15 years working for the NYPD, after a stint as a US Army MP. A retired owner of a self built A class personal security company. I've testified and sat through 100's of criminal hearings and trials. As well, I've been a back room local politician, never running for office, but supporting many for business purposes. Attorney referrals were my major source of business. Political clubs are composed of mostly attorneys. I've belonged to the same social club for 48 years, other members being mostly retired police, lawyers, judges, bankers, aka known as cheap SOB's. Most of us grew up together. The usual conversations are women, families, poker, ongoing trials, local politics, and more poker. They all cheat at poker. I cheat at poker also. The club is all men, no women want to join, they've been guests to annual Valentine's dinners and dances, and they barely tolerate those. One woman attorney sued us years back, thinking it was a place to do business and she was cut out of the deal making. Sometimes lawyer members will cut deals at the club, but no different than they'd cut with any other attorney with a phone call. ~~SNIP~~

Every jurisdiction is different. In addition to codified rules, regulations, remedies and legal definitions, there are customs, traditions, with different judges having their own tolerances. Most American Law is based on English common law, with states like Louisiana and Alabama on the Napoleonic code. Earlier French law in counties bordering Canada, Spanish law in the SW and southern California, and Portuguese law in parts of Maine and Massachusetts (don't ask).There are jurisdictions that follow the logic of Harvard Law School, others that follow Yale, and others different philosophies and linguistic from other schools of thought. Ambiguity of law is everything. Similar circumstances can bring entirely results in the same court, depending on the sitting judge, composition of juries, the argumentative skills of opposing attorneys.

~~~SNIP~~~ That's what is going on with these cases. There isn't question of guilt, only punishment. Mueller has got it wrong, he still thinks he can milk these clowns for info. Neither has any credulity. Doesn't matter what they have to say.

Thanks. You’ve had a unique professional life and exposure to both the Enforcement and the Adjudication environments. Sorry for the snips. Too many characters to reply. My years of experience was in the civil court system, AKA, “The Palace of Lies”.

As to your last (underlined) comment, I don’t want to delve into speculations about Mueller’s abilities to access credible information because the only thing I have to go on is his (CV) years of practice in his profession, which is centered around gathering information and sorting out facts from fiction. How successful that he’s been in performing his job as special prosecutor, I believe will be revealed in due time. But, I do believe that he’s a highly qualified and competent professional in his field.

I think that we (every day people) go through life and are frequently exposed to situations that begs questions in which we can’t answer via having access to solely tangible evidence. But we can assess the information that we experientially know, and combine that with acquiring external sources of information, which hopefully, is factual information. And then we’re able to process that information, and arrive at an answer using something like the legal test for “preponderance of evidence” - or that the information that we are privy to - allows us to weigh and derive at a “more likely than not” answer. This is the process that plays out in civil courts everywhere across the nation. At other times life demands us to acquire hardcore, tangible information that we trust beyond reasonable doubt. That’s the demand made on the jury in Manafort’s case.
 
One thing to keep in mind, when gov't is involved, those in control of situations don't want public credit, and those not in control do want public credit for being in control. Both owe others something(s).

All "journalists" working political stories have debts to information sources, especially those in government or quasi government positions. A word said can easily grow to mean much than what it truly means.

Thanks for being honest, a rarity.



“… a rarity.”

So is your acknowledgment. Thanks.
 
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