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Top UNC leaders condemn Confederate statue toppling

Slingshot Bob said:
When they run out of Confederate statues, they will come for the founding fathers.
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Even if that made sense, who cares? My country is founded on The Enlightenment and the realization of it, not individuals.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
Watch and see, mark my words. It makes perfect sense to people that are not a sympathizer.
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It's paranoid delusion. The founding fathers did not forsake the US, denounce citizenship and murder Americans to preserve slavery. The Confederacy is no different than ISIS, foreigners murdering Americans to perpetuate horrible tyranny.

Your attempt to equate Confederates and founders is nothing more than apologism and the glorification of scumbags.
 
The mobs who illegally attempt to erase history they despise makes them feel better about themselves. White guilt is why they do it...
 
ecofarm said:
It's paranoid delusion. The founding fathers did not forsake the US, denounce citizenship and murder Americans to preserve slavery. The Confederacy is no different than ISIS, foreigners murdering Americans to perpetuate horrible tyranny.

Your attempt to equate Confederates and founders is nothing more than apologism and the glorification of scumbags.
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Bull crap babble, watch and see and tell me it will never happen. Strawman fail, argue against something else I have not said.
 
trixare4kids said:
The mobs who illegally attempt to erase history they despise makes them feel better about themselves. White guilt is why they do it...
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The only attempt to "erase" history is the Lost Cause, which seeks to make noble martyrs of the Confederates, fighting for things like states' rights, and hoomeland, versus defending slavery which they told us in their own words was the reason for secession and the Civil War. Erasing history are attempts to rebirth Gen. Lee as opposed to slavery, as he broke apart off every single family he inherited, and refused to free them as the will required, and who beat or had a slave beaten savagely then his raw wounds washed with salt water. As Gen. he captured free blacks and returned them to the South as property, slaves, and in prisoner swaps refused to consider slaves as men part of the transfer. That and much more is the history being "erased."
 
ecofarm said:
So this is basically the same as, say, lynching someone?

One can't throw platitudes and false equivalence and expect anyone to believe they've a grasp of the issues or instance.
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I'm still waiting on an argument that this isn't mob action. If you can't acknowledge that this is mob action in and of itself, not sure we have much more to discuss without your red herring of lynching.

Once you can get past the issue of this being mob action, then it would certainly be reasonable to say that some mob actions should incur more sever punishment than others.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I'm still waiting on an argument that this isn't mob action. If you can't acknowledge that this is mob action in and of itself, not sure we have much more to discuss without your red herring of lynching.

Once you can get past the issue of this being mob action, then it would certainly be reasonable to say that some mob actions should incur more sever punishment than others.
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No one has contested your characterization of the event as mob action. Strawman.

I've contested your use of platitude and false equivalence in place of substance.
 
JasperL said:
I've said a couple of times, the people who did this did it in front of police, and a bunch of people with cameras, and made a decision to commit a crime or crimes. I'm fine with them being prosecuted - the vandals should have accepted that as a LIKELY and acceptable consequence of their actions.

All I'm pointing out is the "mob action" came after a couple of years of effort to remove/move the monument in an "orderly" fashion. UNC told the students the university's hands were tied because state law controlled the monument, and the state then did nothing. So the lesson here IMO is when laws and gutless officials thwart peaceful, orderly solutions, the chances of "mob action" - in this case protest and vandalism during which no one was harmed - to get something done go UP.
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I acknowledge your point and to me it is irrelevant. When the mob wants something now they take action. Peaceful protest is certainly a part of our society, people taking action into their own hands isn't part of a civil society.

I'm not an ends justify the means type of person, but perhaps you are.
 
ecofarm said:
No one has contested your characterization of the event as mob action. Strawman.

I've contested your use of platitude and false equivalence in place of substance.
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Do you contest the characterization of the event as a mob action? I haven't read what everyone else has written.

I don't interpret what I wrote as a platitude and I made no false equivalence as I've only addressed this story, not your own extrapolations.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Do you contest the characterization of the event as a mob action?
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I including myself in "no one". This is as tedious as your mealy mouthed condemnation of the event.
 
ecofarm said:
I including myself in "no one". This is as tedious as your mealy mouthed condemnation of the event.
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I'm sorry differing opinions offend you, but that is no reason to be offensive. I'm sorry you don't understand that calling this a mob action wasn't a condemnation.

For the record, I'm not really sorry.

Reading what I wrote and bringing up lynching is quite frankly bizarre. It is unseemly for you to do so.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I'm sorry differing opinions offend you, but that is no reason to be offensive. I'm sorry you don't understand that calling this a mob action wasn't a condemnation.

For the record, I'm not really sorry.

Reading what I wrote and bringing up lynching is quite frankly bizarre. It is unseemly for you to do so.
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No one is offended.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Some people don't agree, so an orderly society has a process for dealing with these questions without resorting to mob action.

You do see this as a mob action, do you not?
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No ****, Sherlock?
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I acknowledge your point and to me it is irrelevant. When the mob wants something now they take action. Peaceful protest is certainly a part of our society, people taking action into their own hands isn't part of a civil society.

I'm not an ends justify the means type of person, but perhaps you are.
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As I said with my first post, they did the crime and I'm fine with prosecuting them for it. I'd rather they have done it legally. As is we're talking about vandalism, instead of the fact this was a monument to white supremacy, erected by white supremacists, and dedicated by a man who said how "pleasing" it was to horse whip a black woman. The world IMO is better off with the monument down.

But by tearing it down instead of having it taken down, it gives Lost Cause dead enders and straight up current day white supremacists the opportunity to play the victim here. That's the real shame of what those kids did, IMO. I'd much rather have those people defend how a statue erected in the Jim Crow south, of those who betrayed their country to fight a war to perpetuate slavery, on a campus that would prohibit blacks from attending for another 50 years, by the negro wench horse whipper represents some part of history that must not be 'destroyed.'
 
Punk Antifa Low IQ Basement Dweller got 6 years in the "pen" last week in Houston for defacing a statue.

Hopefully he gets stretched good, hard and daily. lol
 
JasperL said:
As I said with my first post, they did the crime and I'm fine with prosecuting them for it. I'd rather they have done it legally. As is we're talking about vandalism, instead of the fact this was a monument to white supremacy, erected by white supremacists, and dedicated by a man who said how "pleasing" it was to horse whip a black woman. The world IMO is better off with the monument down.

But by tearing it down instead of having it taken down, it gives Lost Cause dead enders and straight up current day white supremacists the opportunity to play the victim here. That's the real shame of what those kids did, IMO. I'd much rather have those people defend how a statue erected in the Jim Crow south, of those who betrayed their country to fight a war to perpetuate slavery, on a campus that would prohibit blacks from attending for another 50 years, by the negro wench horse whipper represents some part of history that must not be 'destroyed.'
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Ok, I got it. The ends justifies the means, but you would rather it had been done differently. I agree with the differently part, but the ends do not justify the means.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Ok, I got it. The ends justifies the means, but you would rather it had been done differently. I agree with the differently part, but the ends do not justify the means.
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I didn't say that, but if that's all you want to discuss, OK.
 
trixare4kids said:
The mobs who illegally attempt to erase history they despise makes them feel better about themselves. White guilt is why they do it...
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I think you've got it twisted, Trix. Nobody is trying to erase history, they're just ending the celebration of its darkest players.

As for white guilt, is any of it justified in your opinion? There is some contradiction in your claim that history is both being erased and remembered by white people. Which is it.
 
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