• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

America Was Never That Great, says Andrew Cuomo

Linc said:
We Are NOT Going Back To The America Of The 1960s, 1920s, and the most UnCivil War. America was NOT Great Then, and it took Us Decades to Recover.

In Fact, We Still Haven’t Recovered from those Three Racist Eras in our Nation’s History. We See Evidence of this every single moment of every single day.

These Eras of White Nationalist Fervor have gone hand-in-hand with Tariffs. Tariffs were the REAL Cause of the Civil War. Smoot-Hawley Tariffs followed the 1920s and Ignited the Great Depression.

President Carter’s Tariffs were a Catastrophe to Farm and Rural Country. And Now, the USA Just Never Learns, with White Nationalism going hand in hand with Tariffs.
Click to expand...

I have a lot of close Black, Filipino, Sikh, Israeli, and Hispanic friends in my area that are very Nationalistic.

How do you pigeon hole them in your little world?
 
roguenuke said:
And compared to many others, America isn't so great. And our current President seems to be working really hard to only make America "great" for a select few and make it miserable for most others.
Click to expand...

Can you name a few?
 
roguenuke said:
And compared to many others, America isn't so great. And our current President seems to be working really hard to only make America "great" for a select few and make it miserable for most others.
Click to expand...

unpatriotic.. And which countries -when compared to the US- make America seem not so great? Please enlighten me.. Some liberal "utopia", no doubt.
 
holbritter said:
Can you name a few?
Click to expand...

I'd say this is a good place to start (although I wouldn't really agree with Hong Kong only because China is still trying to stifle the freedom they have had for so long, even if they are doing a poor job of it).

https://www.offthegridnews.com/current-events/you-wont-believe-which-19-countries-have-more-freedom-than-america-so-says-this-new-study/

"Hong Kong
Switzerland
Finland
Denmark
New Zealand
Canada
Australia
Ireland
The United Kingdom
Sweden
Norway
Austria
Germany
Iceland
The Netherlands
Malta
Luxembourg
Chile
Mauritius"

I definitely agree with places like New Zealand, Denmark, Finland, and even the UK and Canada. They have their problems, sure, but many are much more open to changes in laws not being stifled by Christian ideals on morality or allowing companies to control/manipulate people's lives, or allowing people to massively pollute the environment for their greed.

That doesn't mean America is not a good country, a desirable place to live. But given that we have a lot of work to do to catch up to many other places (work that was heading in a good direction, but then got sidelined for the greed of this President and his buddies), I can't call us great. We can work to change it though. Most people prefer comfort to a dream. If enough people want a certain version of a dream country that is also comfortable to them, then they will work to try to make it happen.
 
Oceanborn said:
unpatriotic.. And which countries -when compared to the US- make America seem not so great? Please enlighten me.. Some liberal "utopia", no doubt.
Click to expand...

No place is utopia. No place could be an objective utopia since utopia is subjective, varies depending on the person. There are places that I see as being better than us. Doesn't make me unpatriotic, just realistic. I can work to change my country into the closest version of the vision I would like to see.
 
roguenuke said:
I definitely agree with places like New Zealand, Denmark, Finland, and even the UK and Canada.
Click to expand...
And how much longer will these “better countries” last in their current state with the reckless, globalist mass migration policies?

The top 10 jurisdictions in order were Switzerland, Hong Kong, New Zealand, Ireland, Australia, Finland, Norway, Denmark, and, tied at 9th place, the Netherlands, and the United Kingdom. Selected countries rank as follows: Canada (11), Sweden (13), Germany (16), the United States (17), Japan (27), Out of 17 regions, the highest levels of freedom are in Western Europe, Northern Europe, and North America (Canada and the United States). Countries in the top quartile of freedom enjoy a significantly higher per capita income ($38,871) than those in other quartiles; the per capita income in the least-free quartile is $10,346.
The 2016 had the US ranked 23. It is now 17.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...9/these-are-the-freest-countries-in-the-world
"Human freedom is a social concept that recognizes the dignity of the individual. The declining performance of the United States, once considered the bastion of liberty, is worrisome," Ian Vasquez, director of the Cato Institute’s Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity and co-author of the study, said in a press release. "We should all be concerned with the impact on liberty of the war on terror, the war on drugs, and the decline in the rule of law and economic liberty in the United States."
Click to expand...
Admittedly, the war on drugs and the patriot act has significantly reduced freedoms in this country. However, the UK is definitely not freer than we are. The sources you cite have overlooked UK’s migrant crisis resulting in reduced healthcare for its citizens, terrorist attacks and rape gangs. People are less able to freely express themselves on social media than we are due to an even more insidious and pervasive political correctness. UK police waste time and resources arresting people for hate speech on social media instead of reducing the rates of actual crimes which have increased under the pathetically weak and spineless leadership of Theresa May. And since Sadiq Khan has been mayor of London, crime there is now worse than in New York City.
Canada? Whatever increases in standard of living they may have gained will surely be lost under the beta male leadership of Justin Trudeau.
Which raises the question: At what point do the dismal jobs numbers, weak exports and slumping GDP become a political problem for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau?



immigration-minister-ahmed-hussen.jpg

Canada's Immigration Minister, Amhed Hussen. ^ 100% of Canada's population growth will be immigrants -by 2036. Odd.
Immigration Minister Ahmed Hussen said that by 2036 100 per cent of Canada's population growth will be as a result of immigration, it stands at about 75 per cent today. (CBC)
Click to expand...
Canada will welcome nearly one million immigrants over the next three years, according to the multi-year strategy tabled by the Liberal government today in what it calls "the most ambitious immigration levels in recent history."
It is not unpatriotic to question the direction of government policies or believe that other places may have better standards of living based on one’s own subjective standards. However, Cuomo (and those who agree with him) are sniveling unpatriotic ingrates. I hope the proverbial door hits both he and his supporter’s on their asses on the way out- by all means, they should feel free to move to these "better countries."
roguenuke said:
No place is utopia. No place could be an objective utopia since utopia is subjective, varies depending on the person. There are places that I see as being better than us.
Click to expand...

Does this render all discussion pointless since objective standards apparently do not even exist. Freedom only exists for liberals in a subjective world of social justice equality. Cuomo's feminist pandering bs message must have resonated with the far left identity politics that is now the democratic socialist party.

Doesn't make me unpatriotic, just realistic. I can work to change my country into the closest version of the vision I would like to see.
Click to expand...

Agreeing with Cuomo's comments certain is.
 
roguenuke said:
I'd say this is a good place to start (although I wouldn't really agree with Hong Kong only because China is still trying to stifle the freedom they have had for so long, even if they are doing a poor job of it).

https://www.offthegridnews.com/current-events/you-wont-believe-which-19-countries-have-more-freedom-than-america-so-says-this-new-study/

"Hong Kong
Switzerland
Finland
Denmark
New Zealand
Canada
Australia
Ireland
The United Kingdom
Sweden
Norway
Austria
Germany
Iceland
The Netherlands
Malta
Luxembourg
Chile
Mauritius"

I definitely agree with places like New Zealand, Denmark, Finland, and even the UK and Canada. They have their problems, sure, but many are much more open to changes in laws not being stifled by Christian ideals on morality or allowing companies to control/manipulate people's lives, or allowing people to massively pollute the environment for their greed.

That doesn't mean America is not a good country, a desirable place to live. But given that we have a lot of work to do to catch up to many other places (work that was heading in a good direction, but then got sidelined for the greed of this President and his buddies), I can't call us great. We can work to change it though. Most people prefer comfort to a dream. If enough people want a certain version of a dream country that is also comfortable to them, then they will work to try to make it happen.
Click to expand...


The United States fell from 17th place in 2008 to 20th place in 2012. The decline reflects a long-term drop in every category of economic freedom and in its rule of law indicators. The U.S. performance is worrisome and shows that the United States can no longer claim to be the leading bastion of liberty in the world. In addition to the expansion of the regulatory state and drop in economic freedom, the war on terror, the war on drugs, and the erosion of property rights due to greater use of eminent domain all likely have contributed to the U.S. decline.

Interesting that the expansion of the regulatory state is one of the first reasons. I'm not sure about the study though.

"We do not measure democracy in the index, though we consider it important. Indeed, we find a strong relationship between human freedom and democracy, a link that merits further study." Why would they not include something they think has a strong relationship to the what they are studying?

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-human-freedom-index-us-ranks-20th

Not to mention how expensive some of those countries are to live there.
 
Last edited:
No country is "great" because govts are run by corrupt greedy mankind. However, America is a comfortable place and has great aspects just as many other countries do. Its just odd to say a country is "great" when you view its brazen monstrous militarism of the last 17 years. But I do love America and hope she can become a place not run by a psychopathic war complex.
 
Vladimir Putin said:
No country is "great" because govts are run by corrupt greedy mankind. However, America is a comfortable place and has great aspects just as many other countries do. Its just odd to say a country is "great" when you view its brazen monstrous militarism of the last 17 years. But I do love America and hope she can become a place not run by a psychopathic war complex.
Click to expand...

...like Russia. Both the US and Russia are controlled by sociopaths.
 
Cardinal said:
That's a fun post, coming from a trump supporter, whose main tactic is to associate all of America's actions with the worst of countries around the world.
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate?
 
holbritter said:
The United States fell from 17th place in 2008 to 20th place in 2012. The decline reflects a long-term drop in every category of economic freedom and in its rule of law indicators. The U.S. performance is worrisome and shows that the United States can no longer claim to be the leading bastion of liberty in the world. In addition to the expansion of the regulatory state and drop in economic freedom, the war on terror, the war on drugs, and the erosion of property rights due to greater use of eminent domain all likely have contributed to the U.S. decline.

Interesting that the expansion of the regulatory state is one of the first reasons. I'm not sure about the study though.

"We do not measure democracy in the index, though we consider it important. Indeed, we find a strong relationship between human freedom and democracy, a link that merits further study." Why would they not include something they think has a strong relationship to the what they are studying?

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-human-freedom-index-us-ranks-20th

Not to mention how expensive some of those countries are to live there.
Click to expand...

All or most of those countries have democracies, that are very similar to our own.

It is expensive to live here.
 
roguenuke said:
And how long did it take to have that document truly apply to "all men (and women)"?

Our founding fathers came up with some great concepts, but that does not in itself make our country great. It gives us a wonderful opportunity to be great, but we haven't been able to really do that.
Click to expand...

The document is great because it set the foundation for all men being equal. That Democrats sought to enslave and keep the Black man down throughout their history is a pock, that cannot be undone.

The country is and has been great as attested to by the fact we have given much blood and treasure to liberate others from tyranny... only to be assaulted from within from the likes of Cuomo and his ilk. But their idiocies cannot undo America’s greatness, though they have tried.
 
Felis Leo said:
I completely agree with what you write.

I think a part of the problem with this entire discussion is that people who talk about American "Greatness" define "Great" in their heads to mean "perfect" or "without any faults, past or present." A country can be simultaneously great, while still greatly flawed.

To draw the historical example: The Republic (and later the Empire) of Rome was a great nation at one point, both for its societal achievements, its development of the principles of rule of law, the ideas of the individual rights of citizens, and of course, its economic and military dominance of the ancient world. Many of its founding principles last to this day, most obviously the principle of the rule of law and individual liberties of citizens. However, no one would say that Rome was in any way perfect, because as anyone who has studied ancient history could tell you, while Roman philosophers were discussing matters of principle, the Romans had perfected the institution of slavery, committed massive campaigns of brutal conquest and subjugation of their neighbors and rivals, and mass-enslavement of conquered peoples, and in, some cases, their generals even bragged about mass-extermination of entire tribes who had defied them down to the last crying child. But these evils and flaws did not mean that Rome was not great.

In the same way, the United States was and is still great, and its sins are not nearly so egregious as that of the Romans. The United States and the principles under which it was united and founded have withstood the test of time. The principles of individual liberty, freedom of worship, freedom to own one's labor and property, freedom to engage in social and economic intercourse with whomever one so chooses, and above all tolerance enforced by rule of law, have made America rich both economically and in spirit. That is not to say horrible acts were not perpetrated along the way. No one can or should deny the evils of slavery. No one can or should deny the evils of the mass-relocation and genocide against indigenous tribes. But even during these most horrible times, America was still a great country. Not perfect, but great. And we have only gotten better over time.

Certainly, as the son of an immigrant who moved to this country from the horrible nation that is Iran, I can state without equivocation that America is a great country, both for the liberty afforded to her and her family, as well as any number of immigrants who are lucky enough to find refuge on her shores. America is a land of freedom and opportunity, and as long as it remains so, it shall remain great.
Click to expand...

My point is that "greatness" is built upon citizens who exercise their democratic responsibilities, through their daily tasks. It is demonstrated through the aggregate behaviors of millions of individuals showing a vested interest in the health of their country. Talk is cheap, action is everything. Too many people have become complacent. They let themselves be spoon fed dogma and stories about what the Republic is and who their political enemies are, rather than exercising their responsibilities of ensuring freedom and liberty are maintained. Our country is only as "great" as its people, and the People have become fat, lazy and complacent. The government knows it and it's why they run roughshod all over us now.

As Viktor E. Frankl said... if there is a Statue of Liberty built in the east, then there should be a Statue of Responsibility built in the west. Our freedoms are being taken away one by one. Anyone born just after the Cold War era can see it. What people call "free" now is a joke compared to the freedoms people used to have. The government now frames the terms of popular protest, of what is acceptable in activism. If you don't obey you get jackbooted.

Comparing America to Iran is fine, but it's not a real comparison. To see how America is doing we have to compare it to itself, and right now it's not doing so good.
 
zimmer said:
The document is great because it set the foundation for all men being equal. That Democrats sought to enslave and keep the Black man down throughout their history is a pock, that cannot be undone.

The country is and has been great as attested to by the fact we have given much blood and treasure to liberate others from tyranny... only to be assaulted from within from the likes of Cuomo and his ilk. But their idiocies cannot undo America’s greatness, though they have tried.
Click to expand...

Ignorance is when people do not recognize that "Democrat" is a title of a member of a Party, that has changed stances over the last 200 years many times. The same people who are "Democrats" today, would not likely have been Democrats 100 or even 50 years ago (hence the phrase Southern Democrat). And conversely, most of those who were Democrats 100-50 years ago would most likely not be Democrats today. The same is even true for many Republicans.

The country is pretty good. But it has many flaws.

And greatness, as I said before, is an opinion.
 
roguenuke said:
And how long did it take to have that document truly apply to "all men (and women)"?

Our founding fathers came up with some great concepts, but that does not in itself make our country great. It gives us a wonderful opportunity to be great, but we haven't been able to really do that.
Click to expand...

If it is so abysmal then why do millions of people from around the world want to come here?
I will tell you why? American is one of the few countries in the world where you make your way.

You can come here with nothing and be a millionaire.
that is what makes this country great.
 
ludin said:
If it is so abysmal then why do millions of people from around the world want to come here?
I will tell you why? American is one of the few countries in the world where you make your way.

You can come here with nothing and be a millionaire.
that is what makes this country great.
Click to expand...

Who called it abysmal? There is a ton of in between in "great" and "abysmal".

And there are dozens of countries where you can do exactly what you described. This is not the 18th Century anymore.
 
ludin said:
If it is so abysmal then why do millions of people from around the world want to come here?
I will tell you why? American is one of the few countries in the world where you make your way.

You can come here with nothing and be a millionaire.
that is what makes this country great.
Click to expand...

That isn’t a unique quality nor is it very common here so why does that make America “great?”
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom