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Suspect named after Westminster terror attack as homes raided

stevecanuck said:
The new narrative is now firmly in place: Muslims who kill infidels are "mentally ill", while infidels who kill Muslims are an example of systemic Islamophobia. Muslims: ever the victims.
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Eh? There is the truth and that is it. The only ones using narratives are people who always think that crimes done by muslims is terror.

There is no evidence that this was terror.
 
stevecanuck said:
Nope. There are no "voices in his head" involved. All that is required is words on paper, verbatim words from God. For you to say that obeying Gods commands (ie: adhering to Islamic scripture) is psychopathy, then you are calling every strict Muslim in the world a psychopath. Are sure you want to go there?



Again, you're dismissing Islam as nothing more psychopathy disguised as religion. That would be a fail.
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Islam is no more inherently violent than Christianity, just that more psychos are stirred to action from Islam these days. The religion is going through strange days, that's for sure but if it was inherently more violent it would always have been that way, and that's not the way history tells it.
 
Grand Mal said:
Islam is no more inherently violent than Christianity,
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And there we have it folks, when all else fails, resort to the great cop-out. The above implies you have a working knowledge of both religions, which means you should be able to supply a biblical equivalent to verse 9:29. I await your response with bated breath.

just that more psychos are stirred to action from Islam these days. The religion is going through strange days, that's for sure but if it was inherently more violent it would always have been that way, and that's not the way history tells it.
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History? Rather than quote you an entire book, please read The Great Arab Conquests by Hugh Kennedy. It only covers the first few centuries of Islam and doesn't even get into the great slaughter on the Indian sub-continent or the sieges of Europe. You REALLY stepped in it with this one.

I already know your reply is going to be a list of Christian atrocities, so you needn't bother. What you could do to get my attention is to give me a list of quotes and actions by Jesus that would justify said atrocities, but of course you can't, because none exist. Mohamed and the Qur'an on the other hand..........
 
PeteEU said:
Eh? There is the truth and that is it. The only ones using narratives are people who always think that crimes done by muslims is terror.

There is no evidence that this was terror.
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Maybe this one wasn't, but there are plenty of other attacks that were. You live in a country where Islamic extremists have killed many, so what I would like to know is how many attacks would it take for you to start wondering is maybe, just maybe, Islamic scripture exhorts Muslims to attack us infidels? What would it take for you to say, OK, let's have a discussion?
 
notquiteright said:
Strict Muslim??? no, but those who bend the Word to give cover for hideous acts, yes.
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Can you give me an example? If you say that Islamic scripture has to be bent in order to justify acts of terrorism, I assume you have the knowledge to tell us how that works?
 
stevecanuck said:
Maybe this one wasn't, but there are plenty of other attacks that were. You live in a country where Islamic extremists have killed many, so what I would like to know is how many attacks would it take for you to start wondering is maybe, just maybe, Islamic scripture exhorts Muslims to attack us infidels? What would it take for you to say, OK, let's have a discussion?
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And you live in a country where white Christians have killed far more and in fact do it daily. So....... plus I dont live in the UK.

Also this one was not and in fact most Muslim criminals are not terrorists!.. go figure!
 
stevecanuck said:
Can you give me an example? If you say that Islamic scripture has to be bent in order to justify acts of terrorism, I assume you have the knowledge to tell us how that works?
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Well it's pretty clear you don't, nor seem to have much in the way of common sense. Millions of devout Muslims go about their everyday lives not blowing up planes or driving their cars into crowds.

The Quran teaches that people of the book are not infidels but some rabid extremists claim that even fellow Muslims are Infidels if they are not 'muslim' enough. Kinda like the rabid right in the GOP calling those who are not as extreme as them RINOs.

Now history shows Jews and Muslims got along well enough in Moorish Spain. Once the 'good' Christians 'liberated' Spain the Jews were murdered or forced to flee abandoning much of the wealth to the Godly Spaniards... :roll:

Want to continue to play this game??? :peace
 
PeteEU said:
And you live in a country where white Christians have killed far more and in fact do it daily. So....... plus I dont live in the UK.

Also this one was not and in fact most Muslim criminals are not terrorists!.. go figure!
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Right. Denmark. Same question though. How many attacks would it take?
 
notquiteright said:
Well it's pretty clear you don't, nor seem to have much in the way of common sense.
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Open with an ad hominem to set a disingenuous tone. Check.

Millions of devout Muslims go about their everyday lives not blowing up planes or driving their cars into crowds.
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Completely ignore the question. Check.

(Btw, here it is again. Care to actually address it????? Didn't think so: Can you give me an example? If you say that Islamic scripture has to be bent in order to justify acts of terrorism, I assume you have the knowledge to tell us how that works?

The Quran teaches that people of the book are not infidels
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Here's where your ignorance of Islam, and your seeming willingness to advertise it, results in one foot in one mouth. Both yours.

Verse 5:72 EXPLICITLY calls Christians infidels. Read it for yourself - The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation

Here's the Yusuf Ali translation to help you along: "They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help."

I've underlined the word "blaspheme" because it's critical to the meaning you say doesn't exist. The Arabic root word used is "Kafar" (كفر ), which is the word always translated at "infidel".

YOU...HAVE...NO...CLUE what you're talking about.

but some rabid extremists claim that even fellow Muslims are Infidels if they are not 'muslim' enough. Kinda like the rabid right in the GOP calling those who are not as extreme as them RINOs.

Now history shows Jews and Muslims got along well enough in Moorish Spain. Once the 'good' Christians 'liberated' Spain the Jews were murdered or forced to flee abandoning much of the wealth to the Godly Spaniards... :roll:

Want to continue to play this game??? :peace
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I'm waiting for you to start playing.

To the extent that Jews and Muslims got along in areas that were conquered by Muslim armies (forgot that part, didn't you) is that the Jews accepted their place as dhimmis (btw, this is what it looks like to address what someone says. See how that works?????).

Despite your attempts at misdirection, I'm here to remind you that my original question remains unanswered. Your move (assuming you still want to "play this game".
 
stevecanuck said:
And there we have it folks, when all else fails, resort to the great cop-out. The above implies you have a working knowledge of both religions, which means you should be able to supply a biblical equivalent to verse 9:29. I await your response with bated breath.



History? Rather than quote you an entire book, please read The Great Arab Conquests by Hugh Kennedy. It only covers the first few centuries of Islam and doesn't even get into the great slaughter on the Indian sub-continent or the sieges of Europe. You REALLY stepped in it with this one.

I already know your reply is going to be a list of Christian atrocities, so you needn't bother. What you could do to get my attention is to give me a list of quotes and actions by Jesus that would justify said atrocities, but of course you can't, because none exist. Mohamed and the Qur'an on the other hand..........
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What a cheap ploy. You cite me a listof Muslim atrocities and follow by saying I needn't bother doing the same.
There was a long period of history when Christendom was a chaos of savage barbarism and anything learned and civilized was being saved in the Muslim world. And you claim the right to cite the first few centuries of Islam but I wouldn't be so trite and banal as to mention the Crusades.
As for Jesus, well, he was just one of the gods in the bible. The one in the Old Testament is said to have stopped the sun in the sky to allow Joshua the time to complete his slaughter of every man, woman and child and all the beasts that walk on four legs. There's books full of similar exhortations in the Old Testament. There's the story of Abraham preparing the sacrifice of his son and of Lot offering his virgin daughters to be gang-raped by a mob. He was glad later they didn't take him up on it, when he screwed those daughters after his wife was turned to a pillar of salt. You know of something in the Koran to match offering your virgin daughters to placate a crowd of sodomites?
 
LOL...of course the religion of "PIECES"
 
I so enjoy watching Islam destroy Europe. by bye Loser Euros
 
Grand Mal said:
What a cheap ploy. You cite me a listof Muslim atrocities and follow by saying I needn't bother doing the same.
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Nope. I gave you the quote from the Qur'an that directly led to the Muslim conquests of the 7th and 8th centuries. I challenged you to supply a quote from the bible wherein Jesus said or did anything to justify the horror show that Christianity became. You failed. Again.

There was a long period of history when Christendom was a chaos of savage barbarism and anything learned and civilized was being saved in the Muslim world. And you claim the right to cite the first few centuries of Islam but I wouldn't be so trite and banal as to mention the Crusades.
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Yes, all according to the word of Jesus who said......what exactly to encourage the carnage that ensued? Was it, "Invade thy neighbor"? Still waiting for you to come up with something.

As for Jesus, well, he was just one of the gods in the bible. The one in the Old Testament is said to have stopped the sun in the sky to allow Joshua the time to complete his slaughter of every man, woman and child and all the beasts that walk on four legs. There's books full of similar exhortations in the Old Testament. There's the story of Abraham preparing the sacrifice of his son and of Lot offering his virgin daughters to be gang-raped by a mob. He was glad later they didn't take him up on it, when he screwed those daughters after his wife was turned to a pillar of salt. You know of something in the Koran to match offering your virgin daughters to placate a crowd of sodomites?
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The OT is all you'll ever have to indict Christianity. Please forget about the fact that Jesus came along with a completely different message. Oh, I see you already have. Again.

I have another observation for you to ignore. The first 3 centuries of Christianity were marked by peace and pacifism. It wasn't until the Romans adopted Christianity that it turned violent. Contrast that with Islam. It was on a war footing from the day Mohamed left Mecca for Medina. Its first 3 centuries were marked by constant offensive warfare. But, yeah, other than that they're exactly the same.
 
ecofarm said:
Then I was mistaken and will be happy when your argument is undermined by your simple overlook.

Good day.
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I see you those not to answer the rest of my post - "It's a politically charged word used to dismiss legitimate and fact-based criticism of Islamic tenets in one swell foop."

I criticize Islam because it tells Muslims to fight infidels, and they did, and they're (some of them) still doing it. Is that an incorrect assessment?
 
stevecanuck said:
Nope. I gave you the quote from the Qur'an that directly led to the Muslim conquests of the 7th and 8th centuries. I challenged you to supply a quote from the bible wherein Jesus said or did anything to justify the horror show that Christianity became. You failed. Again.



Yes, all according to the word of Jesus who said......what exactly to encourage the carnage that ensued? Was it, "Invade thy neighbor"? Still waiting for you to come up with something.



The OT is all you'll ever have to indict Christianity. Please forget about the fact that Jesus came along with a completely different message. Oh, I see you already have. Again.

I have another observation for you to ignore. The first 3 centuries of Christianity were marked by peace and pacifism. It wasn't until the Romans adopted Christianity that it turned violent. Contrast that with Islam. It was on a war footing from the day Mohamed left Mecca for Medina. Its first 3 centuries were marked by constant offensive warfare. But, yeah, other than that they're exactly the same.
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You ignore every point I make and keep repeating, "You fail!" Here's another point for you to ignore- you say it was the Romans who made Christianity violent but I'm telling you that the Romans saved Christianity from becoming just another sect of Judaism, like the Pharisees and Sadducees and Essenes (Christ probably spent a lot of time in an Essene retreat). The Romans and that old sinner, Paul.
During that long interlude between the Romans in Europe and the Gothic medievel period the Muslims preserved the learning and civilization of the classical period that would have been lost. When the Crusades were occupying Jerusalem Muslim doctors were aghast at the primitive bleed-and-purge medical practices of the European barbarians. The best and brightest time in Spanish history was before the Moors were finally driven out and replaced by the Inquisition.
But I'm not here to 'indict Christianity'. I'm here to refute your bigotry about Islam.
I'm not sure what the trigger was for this round of Islamic terrorism but I suspect that if I looked into it I'd find it started with the partition of Palestine in '48. Since then, and lately, it's being driven by psychopathic fanaticism.
It's worth noting that by far most of the victims of Islamic jihadist terrorism are Muslims.
Those fanatic fundamentalists seem to have forgotten the words of the Afghani poet Jalal al-din Rumi, "The eye through which you see God is the same eye through which God sees you."
 
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