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Under Trump arrests of undocumented immigrants with no criminal record have tripled

MrPeanut said:
We've known about this for a while now. Every time the administration brags about their deportation numbers they are mainly just talking about immigrants that aren't dangerous. It helps ICE boost their numbers without putting them in harm's way.
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Incorrect.

And blame sanctuary cities for some of the misdemeanor and felony illegal immigrants not being grabbed by ICE.
 
If you are in a country illegally, you need to be arrested and deported.
There are means to migrate to any country legally. Use them or risk the consequences.!
 
Another campaign promise kept by Trump.



It's so refreshing to have a President who actually does what he promised.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
For the sake of argument, can you envision the effect on the US economy if Mr. Trump were able to "wave his magic wand" and instantly remove 30,000,000 people from the US?

I can, and it isn't a pretty thought.
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GDP would go down while wages would skyrocket. Especially for blue collar workers.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
For the sake of argument, can you envision the effect on the US economy if Mr. Trump were able to "wave his magic wand" and instantly remove 30,000,000 people from the US?

I can, and it isn't a pretty thought.
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Most politicians (and their supporters for that matter) are not interested in economics, only the political idea that resonates with a particular group. No matter if the number is 12 million or 30 million people targeted for removal most politicians (and again their supporters) are not interested in the costs associated with rounding them all up. Or building a wall Mexico will not pay for, or doubling down if not tripling down on military levels in the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific, or a dozen other things along those lines.

But like you, I can look at the status of our economy and be very concerned about a 12 million or 30 million removal from our economy. It is a bit apples to oranges but the last time we rendered that number of people as economically insignificant it was disaster... for a very long time.
 
Fledermaus said:
Incorrect.

And blame sanctuary cities for some of the misdemeanor and felony illegal immigrants not being grabbed by ICE.
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https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/579884642/trumps-ice-deportations-increase-from-obamas-figures-data-show

BURNETT: So these visa overstays are a big problem. I mean, more travelers overstay their visitors' visas - there were more than 600,000 in 2016 - than cross the border illegally.

GREENE: And what is ICE saying about that? Is that a big priority for them to go after these visa overstays?

BURNETT: It is. ICE has been wanting to crack down on those for a while. And Trump has, again, you know, taken the shackles off. ICE said in a statement to NPR, it apprehends all those in violation of immigration laws regardless of national origin.

ICE immigration arrests increased in 2017 | Pew Research Center

ICE Enforcement and Removal Operations made a total of 143,470 arrests in fiscal 2017, a 30% rise from fiscal 2016. The surge began after President Donald Trump took office in late January: From his Jan. 20 inauguration to the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30, ICE made 110,568 arrests, 42% more than in the same time period in 2016.

Trump signed an executive order on Jan. 25 that expanded ICE’s enforcement focus to most immigrants in the U.S. without authorization, regardless of whether they have a criminal record. Under President Barack Obama, by contrast, ICE focused its enforcement efforts more narrowly, such as by prioritizing the arrests of those convicted of serious crimes.

The Trump administration gave ICE more authority to go after easier targets which is what they are doing. What's incorrect about my statement?
 
MrPeanut said:
https://www.npr.org/2018/01/23/579884642/trumps-ice-deportations-increase-from-obamas-figures-data-show

BURNETT: So these visa overstays are a big problem. I mean, more travelers overstay their visitors' visas - there were more than 600,000 in 2016 - than cross the border illegally.

GREENE: And what is ICE saying about that? Is that a big priority for them to go after these visa overstays?

BURNETT: It is. ICE has been wanting to crack down on those for a while. And Trump has, again, you know, taken the shackles off. ICE said in a statement to NPR, it apprehends all those in violation of immigration laws regardless of national origin.

ICE immigration arrests increased in 2017 | Pew Research Center

ICE Enforcement and Removal Operations made a total of 143,470 arrests in fiscal 2017, a 30% rise from fiscal 2016. The surge began after President Donald Trump took office in late January: From his Jan. 20 inauguration to the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30, ICE made 110,568 arrests, 42% more than in the same time period in 2016.

Trump signed an executive order on Jan. 25 that expanded ICE’s enforcement focus to most immigrants in the U.S. without authorization, regardless of whether they have a criminal record. Under President Barack Obama, by contrast, ICE focused its enforcement efforts more narrowly, such as by prioritizing the arrests of those convicted of serious crimes.

The Trump administration gave ICE more authority to go after easier targets which is what they are doing. What's incorrect about my statement?
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I retract my "incorrect".

I stand corrected.

Are they or are they not illegally in the US?

And more criminal illegal aliens would or would not be deported by ICE if there were no sanctuary states/cities?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
True, but they are alleged criminals at the point of arrest. Why did you fail to answer the question posed in my post? After all, every arrest (or traffic ticket) is only a criminal allegation and that is all that we allow LEOs to do.
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What question is that?
For the Record, I am not saying they cannot be arrested, it that they shouldn't be per the law, my point is in calling them criminals. Let me ask you this, which makes you a criminal, bring arrested or being found guilty in a court of law. Get it?
 
Fledermaus said:
So you want a conviction.

A conviction that leads to deportation and practically no chance for re-entry due to the conviction....
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Yes, especially if you want to refer to them as criminals. I believe there is a better solution to the issue than just artrsting, deporting, then repeating the process over and over, but that is not the topic here.
 
These are the actual numbers of Obama's non criminal illegal immigrant deportations.

FT_16.12.15_deportations_removals_fy2015.jpg
 
Casper said:
What question is that?
For the Record, I am not saying they cannot be arrested, it that they shouldn't be per the law, my point is in calling them criminals. Let me ask you this, which makes you a criminal, bring arrested or being found guilty in a court of law. Get it?
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OK, let me ask you this: why have federal immigration law if you have no intention of enforcing it? Obviously, you will get no convictions if you make no arrests. Why not just let everyone in (to produce anchor babies, drive 'undocumented' and depress wages) and only deport those that commit 'serious' crimes?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
OK, let me ask you this: why have federal immigration law if you have no intention of enforcing it? Obviously, you will get no convictions if you make no arrests. Why not just let everyone in (to produce anchor babies, drive 'undocumented' and depress wages) and only deport those that commit 'serious' crimes?
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That is not what I am suggesting. Go to the major ice raid thread post 111, that is one suggestion. Sorry on my phone, links are a real pain.
 
Casper said:
That is not what I am suggesting.
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You seem to be suggesting that being in the US w/o permission (i.e. illegally), as your only offense, is not a crime unless you get convicted. That may be a fun word game but, as I noted, many arrests of criminals (those who are eventually convicted) are made based on suspicion alone.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
You seem to be suggesting that being in the US w/o permission (i.e. illegally), as your only offense, is not a crime unless you get convicted. That may be a fun word game but, as I noted, many arrests of criminals (those who are eventually convicted) are made based on suspicion alone.
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Once again, I never said they cannot or should not be arrested, the POINT is they cannot be referred to as criminals at that the point of arrest, something done far too often on these threads.
 
Casper said:
Once again, I never said they cannot or should not be arrested, the POINT is they cannot be referred to as criminals at that the point of arrest, something done far too often on these threads.
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Again, that is a technicality - they can be referred to as alleged criminals even if the alleged crime is a misdemeanor.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Again, that is a technicality - they can be referred to as alleged criminals even if the alleged crime is a misdemeanor.
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Ok, if you want to, think we beat this horse enough.
 
tu curmudgeon said:
from nbc news

under trump arrests of undocumented immigrants with no criminal record have tripled
​

federal arrests of undocumented immigrants with no criminal record have more than tripled under president donald trump and may still be accelerating, according to an nbc news analysis of immigration and customs enforcement data from his first 14 months in office.

The surge has been caused by a new ice tactic of arresting — without warrants — people who are driving or walking down the street and using large-scale "sweeps" of likely immigrants, according to a class-action lawsuit filed in june by immigration rights advocates in chicago.

Ice "administrative" arrests of immigrants without criminal convictions have spiked 203 percent in the first full 14 months of his presidency compared to the final 14 months of the obama administration, growing from 19,128 to 58,010, according to nbc's review of ice figures. During the same time period, the numbers show that arrests of undocumented immigrants with criminal records grew just 18 percent.

An administrative arrest is an arrest for civil violation of immigration law. An ice spokesperson said that a "criminal" conviction in this context can mean any misdemeanor or felony from jaywalking to murder, including previous immigration offenses.

comment:-

"papiere, bitte"?

Coming soon to a "racially" profiling outlet near you?

On the other hand, the "jaywalking plague" has to be stamped out and if that means a few minor infringements of civil rights then that's the price you have to pay for protecting your civil rights against infringement.

Right?
​
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good.
 
MrMike said:
Actually, they are already criminals by being here in USA illegally.

(a little point the left continues to miss in their faux outrage)
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Are pot smokers criminals, too?

Whether or not pot smoking is legal, a reasonable and intelligent person will agree that a pot smoker is not a criminal, though by your logic, they are. By the same token, the same is true for undocumented immigrants.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
For the sake of argument, can you envision the effect on the US economy if Mr. Trump were able to "wave his magic wand" and instantly remove 30,000,000 people from the US?

I can, and it isn't a pretty thought.
Click to expand...

For the sake of argument, can you envision the effect on US wages if past Presidents allowed 30,000,000 undocumented wage earners to get money under the table?
 
OpportunityCost said:
For the sake of argument, can you envision the effect on US wages if past Presidents allowed 30,000,000 undocumented wage earners to get money under the table?
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Why bother to pay them under the table when they will gladly accept payment above board?
 
OscarLevant said:
Why bother to pay them under the table when they will gladly accept payment above board?
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Demonstrably false. Without a valid SS# you cant legally pay them, as taxes don't get removed properly.
 
Casper said:
What question is that?
For the Record, I am not saying they cannot be arrested, it that they shouldn't be per the law, my point is in calling them criminals. Let me ask you this, which makes you a criminal, bring arrested or being found guilty in a court of law. Get it?
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Legally speaking being convicted in a court of law. Non-legally speaking, simply breaking the law is enough to be deemed a criminal. A mob boss that just killed an almost snitch is still a criminal. Just an unconvicted one. If you see someone rob a store, but that someone gets away from the cops and is never found and prosecuted for robbing that store, you still know that person is a criminal.

We know for a fact that there are people in this country illegally. That makes them criminals regardless if they've been through the process or not.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Demonstrably false. Without a valid SS# you cant legally pay them, as taxes don't get removed properly.
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Not how it works. Many illegal immigrants use stolen SSN's. Which means that they are using valid SSN's. Others use fake SSN's yet the employer will never know because the IRS does not inform them of it. IRS Turns Blind Eye to Fake Social Security Numbers from Undocumented Immigrants and IRS Admits It Encourages Illegals To Steal Social Security Numbers For Taxes

Yes, employers aren't supposed to legally pay them, but employers don't always know.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From NBC News

Under Trump arrests of undocumented immigrants with no criminal record have tripled
​

Federal arrests of undocumented immigrants with no criminal record have more than tripled under President Donald Trump and may still be accelerating, according to an NBC News analysis of Immigration and Customs Enforcement data from his first 14 months in office.

The surge has been caused by a new ICE tactic of arresting — without warrants — people who are driving or walking down the street and using large-scale "sweeps" of likely immigrants, according to a class-action lawsuit filed in June by immigration rights advocates in Chicago.

ICE "administrative" arrests of immigrants without criminal convictions have spiked 203 percent in the first full 14 months of his presidency compared to the final 14 months of the Obama administration, growing from 19,128 to 58,010, according to NBC's review of ICE figures. During the same time period, the numbers show that arrests of undocumented immigrants with criminal records grew just 18 percent.

An administrative arrest is an arrest for civil violation of immigration law. An ICE spokesperson said that a "criminal" conviction in this context can mean any misdemeanor or felony from jaywalking to murder, including previous immigration offenses.

COMMENT:-

"Papiere, bitte"?

Coming soon to a "racially" profiling outlet near you?

On the other hand, the "Jaywalking Plague" has to be stamped out and if that means a few minor infringements of civil rights then that's the price you have to pay for protecting your civil rights against infringement.

Right?
​
Click to expand...

Anyone in the US legally that is not a citizen is required by law to "have papers". It's been that way for decades now. Longer than I've been alive even. And while I'm not old, I'm no spring chicken either.

As for racially profiling, there's no need to. Simply sweep the areas that it has been reported as having even a minimum amount of illegal aliens.
 
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