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Saudi Arabia expelling Canadian ambassador, freezing trade with Canada

Surrealistik said:
The Saudi prince is acting like a tantrum throwing child; far more disappointing however, is the lack of support from our closest allies.
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From reading about him it seems he's a schizoid. He allowed women to drive but cracks down hard against anyone who criticizes him.
 
Surrealistik said:
The Saudi prince is acting like a tantrum throwing child; far more disappointing however, is the lack of support from our closest allies.
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It's like the Paris accords, everyone is supportive except the US. Well, except for the part that no one is supporting Canada in this slam on the Saudis. Of course Saudi Arabia is awful, but there are tactful ways of saying so.

Learn to do the silly sword dance, or learn to live without the Saudis. Both are valid options. Just don't blame your allies because 1 minister mouths off.
 
OlNate said:
Hyuk, hyuk, yup, that's funny alright...wait, no, sorry, it's what you do when dealing with a supposed ally who has lost their ****. You reach out to your other (supposed) mutual allies to help simmer things down, so things don't spiral out of control. I mean has America has their lips so firmly fixed to SA's ass, they should be able to help a little bit, no? lol Oh wait, America became worthless as an ally when ol' Donny moved into the WH. Ah well, at least we went through the proper motions. The high road doesn't always go anywhere.

You understand that pretty much every decent nation has called out SA at one time or another, right?

So...when did you become pro-Saudi Arabian atrocities? Follow up question, how is your fight to get more crucifixion in America going?
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So, how's it with the help from Britain and UAE going?!? :lamo
 
Barnacle said:
So, how's it with the help from Britain and UAE going?!? :lamo
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:shrug: Irrelevant. Saudi Arabia is already walking back their tantrum response:

https://business.financialpost.com/...ial-says-canada-dispute-wont-affect-oil-sales

Money talks, bull**** walks. Guess they're not too outraged to continue trade with us.

Sorry if this interferes with your cackling, though, I could tell you were really enjoying yourself there. Not enough to answer anything in my post, but just enough to take a sad swipe that backfired pretty much instantly. :)
 
OlNate said:
:shrug: Irrelevant. Saudi Arabia is already walking back their tantrum response:

https://business.financialpost.com/...ial-says-canada-dispute-wont-affect-oil-sales

Money talks, bull**** walks. Guess they're not too outraged to continue trade with us.

Sorry if this interferes with your cackling, though, I could tell you were really enjoying yourself there. Not enough to answer anything in my post, but just enough to take a sad swipe that backfired pretty much instantly. :)
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My good man, that doesn't mean anything. Unless these two countries are at war or have sanctions, oil and military weapons will always be "exchanged".

Sparkle socks, however, seems to have blinked (grin):

Wednesday - "... Prime Minister Justin Trudeau later appeared to extend an olive branch, saying he would keep pressing Saudi Arabia on civil liberties, but also that the Gulf Arab state had made some progress on human rights.

"Diplomatic talks continue ... we don't want to have poor relations with Saudi Arabia. It is a country that has great significance in the world, that is making progress in the area of human rights," Trudeau said. ..."




Translation: Help me, please. That stupid aubergine tweeted s*** ... it wasn't my fault.
 
Barnacle said:
My good man, that doesn't mean anything. Unless these two countries are at war or have sanctions, oil and military weapons will always be "exchanged".

Sparkle socks, however, seems to have blinked (grin):

Wednesday - "... Prime Minister Justin Trudeau later appeared to extend an olive branch, saying he would keep pressing Saudi Arabia on civil liberties, but also that the Gulf Arab state had made some progress on human rights.

"Diplomatic talks continue ... we don't want to have poor relations with Saudi Arabia. It is a country that has great significance in the world, that is making progress in the area of human rights," Trudeau said. ..."




Translation: Help me, please. That stupid aubergine tweeted s*** ... it wasn't my fault.
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Not even close...let me help you, since you seem to have a problem understanding our Canadian dialect. What he actually meant was:

"Diplomatic talks continue ... we don't want to have poor relations with Saudi Arabia. It is a country that has great significance in the world, that is making progress in the area of human rights"

Which he said right after saying he would keep pressing Saudi Arabia on civil liberties.

There you go, I won't even charge you for the lesson.

Back to my previous question, which you still haven't answered:

So...when did you become pro-Saudi Arabian atrocities? Follow up question, how is your fight to get more crucifixion in America going?
 
From the OP:

Saudi Arabia has expelled Canada’s ambassador and frozen new trade deals with this country in a growing dispute over the Canadian government’s criticism of human-rights violations in the Islamic kingdom.
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Curious...I wonder if the Trump Administration had anything to do with influencing the Saudi's to take this particular active measure against Canada? The timing is uncanny...things that make you go, "Hmmmm...?".
 
OlNate said:
I don't know how you are still disappointed, or how you consider America a close ally. :shrug:
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Trump's reluctance comes as no surprise; our European allies though? Heartbreaking.

AliHajiSheik said:
It's like the Paris accords, everyone is supportive except the US. Well, except for the part that no one is supporting Canada in this slam on the Saudis. Of course Saudi Arabia is awful, but there are tactful ways of saying so.

Learn to do the silly sword dance, or learn to live without the Saudis. Both are valid options. Just don't blame your allies because 1 minister mouths off.
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The thing is that this is a pretty routine, and not at all acrimonious/aggressive criticism.

I don't think the blame for this ongoing spat and its magnitude can reasonably put on us or our minister so much as Saudi's child prince throwing an absurd tantrum in response to the mundane sort of critique that every other country shrugs off without comment. I don't see Canada engaged in terrorist threats against SA, severing diplomatic and economic ties, or employing troll armies on social media to slander it; all things that the Saudis have done, and continue to do to us in response to a single tweet; absolutely ridiculous.

The bought silence of our allies is deafening.
 
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Surrealistik said:
Trump's reluctance comes as no surprise; our European allies though? Heartbreaking.



The thing is that this is a pretty routine, and not at all acrimonious/aggressive criticism.

I don't think the blame for this ongoing spat and its magnitude can reasonably put on us or our minister so much as Saudi's child prince throwing an absurd tantrum in response to the mundane sort of critique that every other country shrugs off without comment. I don't see Canada engaged in terrorist threats against SA, severing diplomatic and economic ties, or employing troll armies on social media to slander it; all things that the Saudis have done, and continue to do in response to a single tweet; absolutely ridicuous.

The bought silence of our allies is deafening.
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I'm sorry you feel heartbroken. Of course it isn't just your European allies that aren't hopping on board. It is no one.

The Saudis and the rest of the Arab world have never been big fans of Crusaders, which the FM was apparently being. I guess Canadian politicians step in it on Twitter too. Right message, wrong media and perhaps the wrong messenger.
 
Middleground said:
Here I though SA was turning over a newer leaf. Their current leader is young and more progressive.
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To tell the truth no. While he has allowed women to drive, they are still required to have permission from the father, or the eldest surviving male in their family. That goes from driving to marriage to even leaving the country. Women are still literally treated as chattel.
His war in Yemen is a mess
The way he took power has created tensions within the Saudi family
His imprisonment of rich Saudi's and literally blackmailed them into providing restitution to the State, when no charges were laid in court.
His problems with Qatar.
I see more problems coming his way due to his impulsiveness.

Just another reason Canada should have a pipeline running from AB to Quebec/New Brunswick. We import approx 750 K barrels per day. That imported oil (dependent upon crude type-refinery capability)could be mainly replaced with Canadian oil.
We import large quantities of oil & refined product-gas from the US and crude from OPEC for Ontario east

https://www.neb-one.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd/mrkt/snpsht/2014/11-01lmprt-eng.html
https://oilprice.com/Geopolitics/International/Canada-Frees-Itself-From-Saudi-Oil-Imports.html
Judith Dwarkin, chief economist with RS Energy Group in Calgary, said Wednesday that Canada could easily replace the oil it imports from Saudi Arabia should relations with the kingdom deteriorate to the point that trade in crude is halted. She said that eastern Canadian refineries import about 75,000 to 80,000 barrels per day (bpd) of Saudi crude, adding that since its only 10 percent of total Canadian oil imports, it represents a “drop in the bucket” compared to that of the U.S. which covers two-thirds of Canadian oil imports and could increase that level if needed.
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AliHajiSheik said:
I'm sorry you feel heartbroken. Of course it isn't just your European allies that aren't hopping on board. It is no one.

The Saudis and the rest of the Arab world have never been big fans of Crusaders, which the FM was apparently being. I guess Canadian politicians step in it on Twitter too. Right message, wrong media and perhaps the wrong messenger.
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No you're not.

And a one off Twitter post obviously has nothing to do with the Crusaders or being a Crusader, and is nowhere near on par with their actions; this sort of apologism is nearly as ridiculous as the prince's inanely disproportionate response of which there is no defense.

There was no gun or sword to the head of the Saudis, no threat, no prolonged rant, no vitriolic attack; it was a diplomatically worded, routine critique, and for that, the prince absolutely lost his **** like the complete baby he clearly is.
 
Surrealistik said:
No you're not.

And a one off Twitter post obviously has nothing to do with the Crusaders or being a Crusader, and is nowhere near on par with their actions; this sort of apologism is nearly as ridiculous as the prince's inanely disproportionate response of which there is no defense.

There was no gun or sword to the head of the Saudis, no threat, no prolonged rant, no vitriolic attack; it was a diplomatically worded, routine critique, and for that, the prince absolutely lost his **** like the complete baby he clearly is.
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No, truly I am. Your Minister took a principled position and got slammed for it in return. Some folks just don't like criticism. The Saudis threatened something similar with the US when it came to 9/11 lawsuits by private citizens against Saudi Arabia. I don't think they ever followed through. If your FM tells the Crowned Prince that he is a baby and should pound sand because that is what she believes and she has the support of the PM, then complaining about not getting support from allies isn't so principled after all. Of course, I haven't seem the FM or the PM make such a statement, just folks on this thread.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
No, truly I am. Your Minister took a principled position and got slammed for it in return. Some folks just don't like criticism. The Saudis threatened something similar with the US when it came to 9/11 lawsuits by private citizens against Saudi Arabia. I don't think they ever followed through. If your FM tells the Crowned Prince that he is a baby and should pound sand because that is what she believes and she has the support of the PM, then complaining about not getting support from allies isn't so principled after all. Of course, I haven't seem the FM or the PM make such a statement, just folks on this thread.
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They haven't, because in their position as representatives of the country, they shouldn't as it wouldn't be productive, or advance any interest, including the defense of human rights.

I however, don't have the same diplomatic constraints and thus am free to levy that valid criticism against fair-weather friends that are apparently too frightened and too cowardly to come out in support of said principled stance in defense of their apparent and stated beliefs, presumably due to the possible economic ramifications.
 
OlNate said:
You understand that these guys are just so happy to think that maybe, just maybe, Canada has made one gaffe as bad as their president makes on a daily basis, and are willing to inflate and exaggerate whatever they must to make it so, right? Also, they love that they're not the only one being chicken **** on this one. It's all about "See, we're not that bad". :shrug: It's not really a fight worth having, unless it's fun to do so... ;)
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No doubt there are plenty of people using the silence of others to justify their own cowardice, nevermind trying to excuse it by asserting that it was Canada, and not SA, that made the misstep.
 
Surrealistik said:
They haven't, because in their position as representatives of the country, they shouldn't as it wouldn't be productive, or advance any interest, including the defense of human rights.

I however, don't have the same diplomatic constraints and thus am free to levy that valid criticism against fair-weather friends that are apparently too frightened and too cowardly to come out in support of said principled stance in defense of their apparent and stated beliefs, presumably due to the possible economic ramifications.
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As you are, but as a mildly interested observer, I believe Trudeau will be kissing some Saudi ass in the next few months or so, while the rest of the world can quietly express their opinion to the Crown Prince and hopefully Saudi society improves over time. Keep in mind that this 'cry baby' is actually a major reformer by Saudi standards.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
As you are, but as a mildly interested observer, I believe Trudeau will be kissing some Saudi ass in the next few months or so, while the rest of the world can quietly express their opinion to the Crown Prince and hopefully Saudi society improves over time. Keep in mind that this 'cry baby' is actually a major reformer by Saudi standards.
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Trudeau won't be "kissing any ass", outside of what is required in the course of normal diplomatic efforts. And my honest hope, as a citizen, is that he engages in none at all until SA apologizes for their outburst. This "major reformer" needs to get his temper under control. Respect is earned.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
As you are, but as a mildly interested observer, I believe Trudeau will be kissing some Saudi ass in the next few months or so, while the rest of the world can quietly express their opinion to the Crown Prince and hopefully Saudi society improves over time. Keep in mind that this 'cry baby' is actually a major reformer by Saudi standards.
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I very much doubt it, especially with his reelection coming up; to endure the humiliation of an SA ass kiss, especially so soon in the news cycle when this spat is still unfolding would only serve to compound his problems at home, and are certain to do more damage to his electoral chances than the relatively abstract pressures of future trade suspension with SA.

Further, reformer or not (and if we're going to be honest with ourselves, his social reforms while existent are modest in any sober light), there are no quotations or qualifiers about it; the Saudi prince is absolutely a cry baby; only the thinnest skinned cry baby of a national leader would respond as he did. Again, he puts Trump to shame in this regard, and that is an exceedingly low bar indeed.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
As you are, but as a mildly interested observer, I believe Trudeau will be kissing some Saudi ass in the next few months or so, while the rest of the world can quietly express their opinion to the Crown Prince and hopefully Saudi society improves over time. Keep in mind that this 'cry baby' is actually a major reformer by Saudi standards.
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This feud is a gift to Trudeau in the polls, he gets to looks tough on foreign affairs with no consequences. This event will help him, not hinder him. The Prince is a major reformer but he still has several centuries of progress to catch up on, and until then Canada is not interested.
 
Carjosse said:
This feud is a gift to Trudeau in the polls, he gets to looks tough on foreign affairs with no consequences. This event will help him, not hinder him. The Prince is a major reformer but he still has several centuries of progress to catch up on, and until then Canada is not interested.
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I wouldnt say this Saudi prince is a reformer- he has taken a few steps forward, thats for sure- but it seems he also doubles down on repression and is increasingly fomenting war with Iran via proxies in Yemen, so he is also taking the country a few steps backward at the same time.
 
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