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'My dad was a hero,' says son of Bronze Star recipient shot dead by police

Sampson Simpson said:
yeah, so what, you can copy and paste. Why are posters so lazy they can't even type out an argument? Better than the innocent person who has no vest
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The titles of the articles suffice as an argument.

But if you want an argument...

Any saying "At least cops have the benefit of a vest" is rather clueless to the limitations of said vest.
 
PoS said:
Based on the article the man the cops shot had a hearing impairment- he was a senior citizen after all. Cops need to be retrained on how to proceed in situations like this.
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It is open season on deaf folks.

Iirc, there's been at least one deaf person killed by police over not following verbal commands.

It just don't seem right, imho.
 
ludin said:
Again the police cannot read peoples minds.
Can you read the intention of every random person you meet?

I would say you can't therefore you can't expect them too.

The information that was given to dispatch was vague and ambiguous as to what was going on.
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As a soldier I REALLY attempted to avoid voluntarily entering vague and ambiguous situations (unless I was the one making them vague and ambiguous).

As a soldier I knew that voluntarily entering vague and ambiguous situations had a very good chance of increasing the odds that I was going to exit that situation boots first.

Possibly American military and police doctrine is different - but I REALLY doubt it.
 
Man shot in his own home, after defending his own home, because he held a gun in his hand. After defending his home. By government agents.

That is a clear violation of this man's second amendment rights. It's not illegal to hold a gun. It's not illegal to be deaf.

Something tells me the NRA isn't going to be raising hell over this. And that thing is this man's skin color. If this happened to a white guy, we'd have every NRA shill on this forum crying about rights.

But it's a black man, so the usual rights crowd is talking about self defense instincts, and all kinds of other excuses on why it's ok to have hit squads and call them police.

I know in my heart, if I ever had a problem with a black guy. All I would ever have to do is call the police and say he's got a gun. And they would kill him. No questions asked. And that's not right. Police should not get to decide who lives and dies based on if they are scared. I would rather have no police, than accept the police regularly shooting innocent people. Because they are cowards.

I don't care if they are scared for their lives, if it costs innocent people their lives the cowards should find other employment. I don't care if it makes their jobs more dangerous. If it costs innocent people their lives, the cowards should find other employment.

I already think we need a drastic reduction in our police force, because the only reason we have so many police is the damned drug war. Which I am totally against in every single way.

Anyone pro second amendment should be outraged and pissed off by this.

And you know what, I completely understand if black people want to start arming themselves. They have a right to defend themselves, even from the police. Especially from the police. That's the whole purpose of the ****ing second amendment. And I'm not going to cry one bit if a black guy comes out on top and saves his own life at the cost of some coward with a badge and no respect for life.
 
Fledermaus said:
How long does it take to raise a weapon from waist lever to eye level?
I am just shy of sixty and can do it in an eye blink.....
As long as the gun is in hand it is a potential threat.
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If we can be shot for bearing arms, isn't that somewhat of an infringement of the right to bear arms?

Maybe protecting the 2nd amendment requires that there be further extenuating circumstances than just holding a gun.
 
PoS said:
Therein lies the problem. People shouldnt be shot for not obeying a cop's demands. Cops should only shoot if other people become an obvious threat like the man points his weapon at them or at another.
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Sorry, but the "standard" now is "I felt like my life and/or safety might possibly be being threatened.".
 
As officers walked toward the house, they heard shots fired, "within 33 seconds of their arrival on scene," as well as "a lot of screaming inside the home," Metz said.

After taking a step back from the front door, the officers saw Black emerge from behind a wall about 15 to 20 feet away inside holding a gun in one hand and a flashlight in the other hand, Metz said.

For the next 13 seconds, officers gave commands to Black to drop the weapon and show his hands, but he didn't, Metz said.

Ten seconds later, Black walked toward officers with the gun and flashlight still in his hands, prompting the officer to fire four rounds at him. It is unclear how many times Black was struck.

23 seconds....

During all that time all that had to happen is for Black to drop the gun...

I don't know about any other posters on this forum but I for one will not walk towards Police with a gun.
 
Along with the gun safety rule that every gun is loaded there should be a new added rule that you lay your firearm on the ground in the presence of the police in these type of situations.

Don't wait to be commanded just do it and let them know you are placing your firearm on the ground.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
If we can be shot for bearing arms, isn't that somewhat of an infringement of the right to bear arms?

Maybe protecting the 2nd amendment requires that there be further extenuating circumstances than just holding a gun.
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His right to bear arms would not have been infringed had he dropped the weapon any time during the 23 seconds.

(If a legal gun) it would have been taken, inspected, tested and returned to him.
 
Fledermaus said:
How long does it take to raise a weapon from waist lever to eye level?

I am just shy of sixty and can do it in an eye blink.....

As long as the gun is in hand it is a potential threat.
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So you will have no complaints if a police officer sees you holding a gun and shoots you dead because you "might" become a threat.

Oh sure.
 
Nap said:
Did anyone say otherwise? The point is that virtually anyone put into the same position cops face would likely react the same. We have the benefit of looking at situations in hindsight, at the time however when literally seconds can determine if you go home to your family or not your survival instincts will kick in.
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While this is true, the "get 'em get 'em" mentality creates these situations.

Charge in and act surprised when **** goes sideways. That's the way it goes now.

And they are rarely held accountable when they **** up. That's the real problem. Impunity. Lack of consequences. Prosecutors and the city circle the wagons not in defense of public safety but to avoid payouts to victims.

"Leap to my every command" should not he how it is, but they are allowed to talk to you and treat you any way they want and if you buck they get to shoot you. At your expense if you pay taxes. And if they miss you and shoot somebody else? Lots of places you get charged with the killing.

It's the culture that's the problem.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
It is open season on deaf folks.

Iirc, there's been at least one deaf person killed by police over not following verbal commands.

It just don't seem right, imho.
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To paraphrase some of the more idiotic positions:


"If they didn't want to get shot for not following orders then they shouldn't have gone deaf."
​

After all the police officer wasn't responsible for the man losing his hearing so why should anyone blame the police officer for shooting someone that the police officer couldn't tell was NOT "wilfully refusing to comply with a legitimate direction from the police"?
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Man shot in his own home, after defending his own home, because he held a gun in his hand. After defending his home. By government agents.

That is a clear violation of this man's second amendment rights. It's not illegal to hold a gun. It's not illegal to be deaf.

Something tells me the NRA isn't going to be raising hell over this. And that thing is this man's skin color. If this happened to a white guy, we'd have every NRA shill on this forum crying about rights.

But it's a black man, so the usual rights crowd is talking about self defense instincts, and all kinds of other excuses on why it's ok to have hit squads and call them police.

I know in my heart, if I ever had a problem with a black guy. All I would ever have to do is call the police and say he's got a gun. And they would kill him. No questions asked. And that's not right. Police should not get to decide who lives and dies based on if they are scared. I would rather have no police, than accept the police regularly shooting innocent people. Because they are cowards.

I don't care if they are scared for their lives, if it costs innocent people their lives the cowards should find other employment. I don't care if it makes their jobs more dangerous. If it costs innocent people their lives, the cowards should find other employment.

I already think we need a drastic reduction in our police force, because the only reason we have so many police is the damned drug war. Which I am totally against in every single way.

Anyone pro second amendment should be outraged and pissed off by this.

And you know what, I completely understand if black people want to start arming themselves. They have a right to defend themselves, even from the police. Especially from the police. That's the whole purpose of the ****ing second amendment. And I'm not going to cry one bit if a black guy comes out on top and saves his own life at the cost of some coward with a badge and no respect for life.
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One little two little three little race cards....

Four little five little six little race cards....
 
Fledermaus said:
As officers walked toward the house, they heard shots fired, "within 33 seconds of their arrival on scene," as well as "a lot of screaming inside the home," Metz said.

After taking a step back from the front door, the officers saw Black emerge from behind a wall about 15 to 20 feet away inside holding a gun in one hand and a flashlight in the other hand, Metz said.

For the next 13 seconds, officers gave commands to Black to drop the weapon and show his hands, but he didn't, Metz said.

Ten seconds later, Black walked toward officers with the gun and flashlight still in his hands, prompting the officer to fire four rounds at him. It is unclear how many times Black was struck.

23 seconds....

During all that time all that had to happen is for Black to drop the gun...
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During all that time all that had to happen was for Mr. Black to hear the police officer tell him to drop the gun.

He didn't.

The police officer shot him.

I don't know about any other posters on this forum but I for one will not walk towards Police with a gun.[/QUOTE]

Obviously you live with a different level of police training and attitude than I do.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
It is open season on deaf folks.

Iirc, there's been at least one deaf person killed by police over not following verbal commands.

It just don't seem right, imho.
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Open season on deaf folks...

OMFG.

And with the millions of interactions police have had with people you can remember a couple of cases where the deaf were killed for not following orders...

Wow.

A real trend I see....

(End sarcasm)
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
During all that time all that had to happen was for Mr. Black to hear the police officer tell him to drop the gun.

He didn't.

The police officer shot him.
I don't know about any other posters on this forum but I for one will not walk towards Police with a gun.

Obviously you live with a different level of police training and attitude than I do.
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So you WOULD face Police with a gun in hand?
 
What if...? said:
While this is true, the "get 'em get 'em" mentality creates these situations.

Charge in and act surprised when **** goes sideways. That's the way it goes now.

And they are rarely held accountable when they **** up. That's the real problem. Impunity. Lack of consequences. Prosecutors and the city circle the wagons not in defense of public safety but to avoid payouts to victims.

"Leap to my every command" should not he how it is, but they are allowed to talk to you and treat you any way they want and if you buck they get to shoot you. At your expense if you pay taxes. And if they miss you and shoot somebody else? Lots of places you get charged with the killing.

It's the culture that's the problem.
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I agree to an extent. There is also another contributing factor and that is the rise in cop killings, the more cops killed in the line of duty will only fuel their fears and increase the likelihood they will be faster to react to what is percieved to be a threat.
 
Fledermaus said:
One little two little three little race cards....

Four little five little six little race cards....
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oh no, one of the people that always defends police when a black person gets shot has an issue with the race card. Poor baby.

Seems like the Trump crowd's only response to anything racial is cry foul on "the race card". Ever stop to think the reason the race card gets used so much, is because of ignorance. Willful ignorance to real problems that are rooted in racial bias. Two types of racists, those who hate, and those who are ignorant on purpose.

I have a feeling I know where you fall on the spectrum...
 
ThoughtEx. said:
oh no, one of the people that always defends police when a black person gets shot has an issue with the race card. Poor baby.

Seems like the Trump crowd's only response to anything racial is cry foul on "the race card". Ever stop to think the reason the race card gets used so much, is because of ignorance. Willful ignorance to real problems that are rooted in racial bias. Two types of racists, those who hate, and those who are ignorant on purpose.

I have a feeling I know where you fall on the spectrum...
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oh no, one of the people that always attacks police when a black person gets shot IS the race card. Poor baby.
 
PoS said:
True, but the problem with cops these days is that they value their lives ahead of everyone else. They'd rather shoot first than wait and assess the situation.
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Yeah! Damn them!
 
ThoughtEx. said:
oh no, one of the people that always defends police when a black person gets shot has an issue with the race card. Poor baby.

Seems like the Trump crowd's only response to anything racial is cry foul on "the race card". Ever stop to think the reason the race card gets used so much, is because of ignorance. Willful ignorance to real problems that are rooted in racial bias. Two types of racists, those who hate, and those who are ignorant on purpose.

I have a feeling I know where you fall on the spectrum...
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This wouldn't even get reported if the dude had been white.
 
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